I can't speak for anyone else here, but you could make this statement about any development story in the media. The fact is that this information will be out anyways...so do you take it and break it in a professional and correct way or risk letting someone else break the story with nothing but speculation and incorrect info? I'd rather read this story on Nextstl than the PD. Just my own personal view though.
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^I agree. And these are all good questions to ask. I think another question is why people involved in developments like this choose to disclose some information anonymously.
I doubt Ikea execs are cowering in a corner office somewhere terrified of all the excitment with which St. Louisans are receiving this news. There is somehing to be gained for a lot of folks here.
1. Ikea gets people excited about a possible new store. (We're talkng tons of free press.)
2. The developer raises public hopes and expectations, which could help him negotiate public incentives.
3. The city is seen to be proactive in seeking new development.
4. And, yes, urbanists receive encouragement and hope that good things are in the works for St. Louis.
5. And all of this for free, wihout having to make any commitments.
I suspect all of those involved have complex motivations that make them want to disclose some information while keeping most of it sealed for now. While I don't know the sources, I suspect those involved would not have disclosed information if they felt doing so would endanger negotiations.
I doubt Ikea execs are cowering in a corner office somewhere terrified of all the excitment with which St. Louisans are receiving this news. There is somehing to be gained for a lot of folks here.
1. Ikea gets people excited about a possible new store. (We're talkng tons of free press.)
2. The developer raises public hopes and expectations, which could help him negotiate public incentives.
3. The city is seen to be proactive in seeking new development.
4. And, yes, urbanists receive encouragement and hope that good things are in the works for St. Louis.
5. And all of this for free, wihout having to make any commitments.
I suspect all of those involved have complex motivations that make them want to disclose some information while keeping most of it sealed for now. While I don't know the sources, I suspect those involved would not have disclosed information if they felt doing so would endanger negotiations.
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^^ Pretty well said. I think one premise of my/our work is that an informed city is a better city. Too often, developments big and small are "finalized" long before anyone hears about them. IMO - that's very detrimental to the city. I strongly believe that residents have a right to know what's happening. I guess we could just sit back and wait for the press releases, but then there is zero ability to affect the outcome or express an opinion. A lot of news today is cut & paste press releases. We do a little of that, but I don't like it.
Painting with a broad stroke, the more informed we are, the better city we'll become. I recognize that nextSTL floats a bit between journalism/media and blog/activism. It's a good place to be. I don't think the PD would have or could have gone public with this story even with the same sources we have (which they don't). But we also respect sources wishes. We sit on stories we're asked not to report. If any of our sources on this one had asked us to wait, we would have.
In fact, we're sitting on a couple stories at the moment that I'm excited about and would absolutely love to share.
Painting with a broad stroke, the more informed we are, the better city we'll become. I recognize that nextSTL floats a bit between journalism/media and blog/activism. It's a good place to be. I don't think the PD would have or could have gone public with this story even with the same sources we have (which they don't). But we also respect sources wishes. We sit on stories we're asked not to report. If any of our sources on this one had asked us to wait, we would have.
In fact, we're sitting on a couple stories at the moment that I'm excited about and would absolutely love to share.
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Oh, now that's just evil. Can we get any hints?!Alex Ihnen wrote:In fact, we're sitting on a couple stories at the moment that I'm excited about and would absolutely love to share.
And as an individual who works for a fortune 50 company working within organizational change...I can directly relate to how information and speculation within the media can be used in direct and indirect ways. Communication plans are held EXTREMELY tight to the chest and it does not surprise me that IKEA still is not admitting to building in St. Louis. Even asking questions and doing market research is another communication...it all adds up. Unless a company WANTS to purposefully place information into the public realm, the normal practice is to deny and avoid until the final deal is...wel, final.
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No, absolutely not. Hopefully we can share sooner than later, but who knows. So much good stuff happening...people really need to get behind the city and start taking pride in what we have and what's coming.chaifetz10 wrote:Oh, now that's just evil. Can we get any hints?!Alex Ihnen wrote:In fact, we're sitting on a couple stories at the moment that I'm excited about and would absolutely love to share.
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I know, it makes me feel so ashamed whenever people (almost always from the suburbs) sh*t all over St. Louis. These are always the same people who ask stupid questions like "What is Forest Park?" That is an actual question I heard from an adult last year who has lived in St. Louis her whole life. True story. Can you believe that? As a matter of fact, almost nobody I know from West County actually knows the first thing about the city. I also know another adult who has NEVER been downtown. And these ignorant people think they know what they're talking about when they say how they hate St. Louis.
They don't hate St. Louis. They hate the suburbs. There's nothing to do there. In the city, though...That's where it's at!
I also think part of the problem is that MetroLink isn't easily accessible to people in the suburbs way out in the county and that makes it harder for them to get to the city and actually experience what it's like down there. Their world is just strip malls and subdivisions. No wonder so many kids leave the region when they grow up. I would too if I had never discovered all the treasures in the city.
And to be clear, yes, I know there are some cool things to do out in the suburbs, like Laumiere Sculpture Park and Six Flags. But seriously. That's not much compared to the city.
To sum this all up, I agree with you, Alex, that people need to take pride in what we have and what's coming. It seems too few St. Louisans do.
They don't hate St. Louis. They hate the suburbs. There's nothing to do there. In the city, though...That's where it's at!
I also think part of the problem is that MetroLink isn't easily accessible to people in the suburbs way out in the county and that makes it harder for them to get to the city and actually experience what it's like down there. Their world is just strip malls and subdivisions. No wonder so many kids leave the region when they grow up. I would too if I had never discovered all the treasures in the city.
And to be clear, yes, I know there are some cool things to do out in the suburbs, like Laumiere Sculpture Park and Six Flags. But seriously. That's not much compared to the city.
To sum this all up, I agree with you, Alex, that people need to take pride in what we have and what's coming. It seems too few St. Louisans do.
I just hope the city is as PRO business as possible when luring ikea to the city. whatever it takes!
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I'm hearing that CORTEX is working on including a *much* larger retail footprint than previously envisioned. And they're being very secretive about it.
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Oh really? Do tell...Presbyterian wrote:I'm hearing that CORTEX is working on including a *much* larger retail footprint than previously envisioned. And they're being very secretive about it.
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Well, you know, sometimes you just have to sit on information for a while.Alex Ihnen wrote:Oh really? Do tell...
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Presbyterian wrote:Well, you know, sometimes you just have to sit on information for a while.Alex Ihnen wrote:Oh really? Do tell...
Just my opinion and not acting on intel...
With the TIF in place and the need for retailers to generate sale tax to pay off the bonds plus the City's need for new revenue, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Walmart and other big box retail here. The City is a void for these types of retailers.
With the TIF in place and the need for retailers to generate sale tax to pay off the bonds plus the City's need for new revenue, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Walmart and other big box retail here. The City is a void for these types of retailers.
Or a Target perhaps
^ Target on the smaller footprint and underground parking makes sense for the Federal Mogul site. But if I understand correctly, that site is not part of the CORTEX footprint.
Target within the CORTEX Site makes me think of another box with a sea of parking along Forest Parkway that would be typical of the region, just change the name of the street/freeway/interchage you need to get off at. Where as IKEA with the letters spelled out on the grain elevator somehow seems a lot more desireable for this location and city.
Target within the CORTEX Site makes me think of another box with a sea of parking along Forest Parkway that would be typical of the region, just change the name of the street/freeway/interchage you need to get off at. Where as IKEA with the letters spelled out on the grain elevator somehow seems a lot more desireable for this location and city.
Do you think both can be supported along Forest Parkway, Target at old Federal Mogul site and IKEA at CORTEX site?kbshapiro wrote:Or a Target perhaps
I think the central corridor can support a new targe store and the region as a whole will support where ever IKEA lands. It would be a big win for the city for both.
Sure, they are not competitive to each other. They'd coexist fine. Since there's no TIF on the Fed Mogul site, I don't think you'll see big box there. If the IKEA, WM, Target, etc retailers of the world decide to build stores in this area, it will most likely be within the CORTEX TIF District that's already been approved and established.
Again, just my opinion and not saying this with any confirmed facts.
Again, just my opinion and not saying this with any confirmed facts.
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Informal poll on SLU Business School's website: http://business.slu.edu/
IKEA in St. Louis? Would it influence your decision to attend SLU or come to St. Louis?
IKEA! Yes finally! 77%
IKEA isn't really a factor for me. 15%
I get my IKEA fix elsewhere, but would welcome it close to home. 8%
CORTEX (SLLC REAL ESTATE LLC) has applied for an occupancy permit for its property at 3915 -3943 Duncan Ave, just behind the Laclede Gas building. Applied for on 4/09/2013 and granted on Tuesday of this week (04/16/2013), the permit is for "OFFC/STORAGE ... Description: OFFICE SPACE & INSIDE/OUTSIDE STORAGE (CONSTRUCTION EQUIP)."
I wonder why they'd be storing construction equipment way over by the Laclede Gas building. That seems a long way from everything. I'm sure it's nothng, though.
I wonder why they'd be storing construction equipment way over by the Laclede Gas building. That seems a long way from everything. I'm sure it's nothng, though.
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^I'm really trying to read between the lines here...but I can't decide on exactly what this means. Anyone else want to take a stab at it?
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I was just reading today's P-D article on the rise of sales taxes in the St. Louis region, and that got me wondering how lucrative an Ikea would be. A typical new Ikea in the US has revenue of about $100 million / year. That's almost as much as a Walmart Supercenter and a Target combined. Maybe $9 million in new annual sales tax revenue, split 50-50 between the TIF district and the ordinary recipients (state, school district, city)?
I can see why tiny suburbs murder and pillage one another over this stuff.
On an unrelated and highly speculative note with absolutely no scientific grounding, I keep coming across connections between Pace Properties, Cortex, Ikea, Trader Joes and Wash U's Loop Livng... always with Pace in the picture, playing one role and then another. Not sure about all of the players and connections and this could totally be a coincidence. Still, if Pace delivers something amazing on both of these projects, then someone needs to send them a fruit basket and a nice card.
I can see why tiny suburbs murder and pillage one another over this stuff.
On an unrelated and highly speculative note with absolutely no scientific grounding, I keep coming across connections between Pace Properties, Cortex, Ikea, Trader Joes and Wash U's Loop Livng... always with Pace in the picture, playing one role and then another. Not sure about all of the players and connections and this could totally be a coincidence. Still, if Pace delivers something amazing on both of these projects, then someone needs to send them a fruit basket and a nice card.
Pres-
The Walmarts and Targets in St Louis do more than $100mil combined, but yes, an IKEA and any new big box retail would be a huge increase in tax revenue collections for the City. Plus, it will spur a lot more development in that area.
As for Pace, they rep Trader Joes, IKEA, and Wash U in leasing their loop development, so it will be very hard to not hear rumblings regarding any of the three without Pace being involved. Just because Pace is leasing the Wash U project in the Loop doesn't mean Trader Joes is going there. Again, saying this as an opinion and not on facts, I'd be very surprised if Trader Joes did another store so close to Brentwood where they're expanding. I'd guess Culinaria, Natural Grocers by Vitamin Cottage, Earthfare, Fresh Market or one of the new farmers market concepts that are growing across the country.
The Walmarts and Targets in St Louis do more than $100mil combined, but yes, an IKEA and any new big box retail would be a huge increase in tax revenue collections for the City. Plus, it will spur a lot more development in that area.
As for Pace, they rep Trader Joes, IKEA, and Wash U in leasing their loop development, so it will be very hard to not hear rumblings regarding any of the three without Pace being involved. Just because Pace is leasing the Wash U project in the Loop doesn't mean Trader Joes is going there. Again, saying this as an opinion and not on facts, I'd be very surprised if Trader Joes did another store so close to Brentwood where they're expanding. I'd guess Culinaria, Natural Grocers by Vitamin Cottage, Earthfare, Fresh Market or one of the new farmers market concepts that are growing across the country.
I haven't been paying much attention; is this latest rumor dead, or is stuff happening?
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^We know the city is trying hard to work a deal to build an Ikea on a Cortex site near Forest Park Ave and Vandeventer, and that this site is the main option Ikea is considering at this time.
We also know that Wash U / Pace are close to inking a deal to put an unnamed 15,000 s.f. grocer in the space at Delmar and Eastgate. Lots of speculation about which grocer. I had guessed Culinaria, but was disqualified in round one. There were rumors a couple years ago about Trader Joes looking at the old Blockbuster building as well as a site near Vernon and Kingsland... but nothng confirmed. I seem to recall that the Loop retail study (funded by Wash U) specifically mentioned TJ's as the sort of grocer desired for the Loop, but that was just a study. The U. City planning commission had noted last year that Wash U was speaking with several local grocers... and TJs isn't exactly local. (I guess this part is off topic.)
Nothing signed yet on either project. Nothing definite or official.
We also know that Wash U / Pace are close to inking a deal to put an unnamed 15,000 s.f. grocer in the space at Delmar and Eastgate. Lots of speculation about which grocer. I had guessed Culinaria, but was disqualified in round one. There were rumors a couple years ago about Trader Joes looking at the old Blockbuster building as well as a site near Vernon and Kingsland... but nothng confirmed. I seem to recall that the Loop retail study (funded by Wash U) specifically mentioned TJ's as the sort of grocer desired for the Loop, but that was just a study. The U. City planning commission had noted last year that Wash U was speaking with several local grocers... and TJs isn't exactly local. (I guess this part is off topic.)
Nothing signed yet on either project. Nothing definite or official.
Internal Ikea rumors last year were that the next Ikea stores (in order) after K.C. would be Miami-Dade, St. Louis then Nashville. That was probably when the Hadley site appeared likely.
St. Louis is experiencing a delay, and Ikea has moved up construction of its Miami store.
http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/cultist/ ... wedish.php
St. Louis is experiencing a delay, and Ikea has moved up construction of its Miami store.
http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/cultist/ ... wedish.php