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PostMay 02, 2013#61

I think this is setting up for a massive failure.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/378572 ... let-malls-

CHESTERFIELD, Mo. (KSDK) - A developer who sold the land being used for a new outlet mall in Chesterfield is using the surrounding lands for his own commercial project.

Dean Wolfe said his plan calls for between 20 and 30 businesses built near the mall. These businesses will not be affiliated with the mall. And while Wolfe declined to name any perspective retailers, he said a movie theater could be a possiblity.

Wolfe said construction could begin on one of the businesses as early as this fall.

The current dueling mall development sees the Prestige Outlet Mall at the east end of Chesterfield Valley, across from the Chesterfield Commons shopping center, and Premium Outlet near the Boone Bridge.
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PostMay 02, 2013#62

Staples?
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PostMay 02, 2013#63

vpr611 wrote:I think this is setting up for a massive failure.
How so? Can you elaborate?
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PostMay 03, 2013#64

More options are great, however what is currently missing from this area that will not be met with TWO outlet malls. I see this as a waste unless they can attract some signature stores that are missing from the Saint Louis area, which I doubt will happen. It will probably just be more variety of what already exists there.
he said a movie theater could be a possibility.


Why with the Galaxy 14 in the same general area? Maybe if we are lucky we can get a Menards to go along with Home Depot and Lowes too.
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PostMay 03, 2013#65

I wonder if he's tring to woo Ikea.
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PostMay 03, 2013#66

Presbyterian wrote:I wonder if he's tring to woo Ikea.
The thought had occurred to me, as well.
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PostMay 03, 2013#67

vpr611 wrote:More options are great, however what is currently missing from this area that will not be met with TWO outlet malls. I see this as a waste unless they can attract some signature stores that are missing from the Saint Louis area, which I doubt will happen. It will probably just be more variety of what already exists there.
he said a movie theater could be a possibility.


Why with the Galaxy 14 in the same general area? Maybe if we are lucky we can get a Menards to go along with Home Depot and Lowes too.
Plus the AMC up the hill at Chesterfield Mall.

I still think it's funny that Home Depot and Lowes are pretty much right next to each other.
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PostMay 04, 2013#68

Its capitalism at work. Nothing in the area seems to be failing at this point, something has to give. My bet is on Chesterfield Mall going down first.
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PostMay 04, 2013#69

^It's the Hotelling Model of Location (from 1929!) at work, actually. Note that the socially optimal location is elsewhere.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotelling%27s_law
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PostMay 06, 2013#70

vpr611 wrote:I think this is setting up for a massive failure.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/378572 ... let-malls-
Pretty much every Chesterfield/WestCo resident I've talked to is opposed to building two outlet malls. It still seems strange to me that the residents were/are opposed, the city government claimed to be opposed or at least "concerned about the feasibility" of two outlet malls, yet development went on anyway.

In any case, the consensus among the C'field/WestCo people I've spoken to is that the far-west outlet mall (not the one by Boones Crossing - the other one, which, incidentally, requires more infrastructure work) will fail first, and C'field Mall will decline as well. Shame.
dweebe wrote: I still think it's funny that Home Depot and Lowes are pretty much right next to each other.
That seems to be a HomeDepot/Lowes marketing thing. IIRC the Home Depot and Lowes in Edwardsville actually share a parking lot.

As for the movie theater, I think that's a lot of hot air.
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PostMay 06, 2013#71

How on earth did these both get financing?
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PostMay 06, 2013#72

urbz wrote:Its capitalism at work. Nothing in the area seems to be failing at this point, something has to give. My bet is on Chesterfield Mall going down first.
Not a bad bet. Perhaps an American Boy is needed there to procreate with American Girl to get more life.

Also, while Chesterfield area seems to remain quite strong, it really is amazing how in the dumps some stretches of Manchester and Watson roads are out in west County. And Saint Charles County as well. Our rubber band expansion is beginning to break us.
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PostMay 14, 2013#73

Justme123 -- The Simon project you're referring to is completely leased (minus 6000 sf being saved for temp tenants that pay a fortune in rent). The other outlet mall is struggling to lease their project and nobody knows what it's going to end up like.
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PostMay 14, 2013#74

^ it may be leased now but that doesn't mean it can't fail. anyway, Justme123 said that he/she spoke with Chesterfield/West County residents, not "Westfield". there is no lying or misleading going on, just speculative conversation among people who don't seem too excited about these developments.
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PostMay 14, 2013#75

You're correct. I misread his post. My apologies. These outlet tenants sign long term leases, so it will be a long time, if ever, that the Simon StL Premium Outlet Mall will fail.
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PostMay 14, 2013#76

kbshapiro wrote:You're correct. I misread his post. My apologies. These outlet tenants sign long term leases, so it will be a long time, if ever, that the Simon StL Premium Outlet Mall will fail.
Just because a tenant signs a long term lease does not guarantee success. As an example, look at the Mills mall. Saks Fifth Avenue off 5th closed after only 2 years, and Lucky Strike Lanes didn't even last 6 months. If a retailer is not performing well, they will have no problem with closing up shop and moving on, lease or no lease.

I've also heard that Chesterfield Mall is working on signing some new to market tenants and is trying to make a move towards more upscale stores. Chesterfield Mall can still be successful with these new outlet malls if they get these new to market stores or more upscale store. Consumers who come from out of town to go to the outlet malls will will be likely to stop by Chesterfield Mall to shop at stores that they don't have in there town.
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PostMay 14, 2013#77

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If another 500 year flood like 1993 ever hits again and floods the Chesterfield Valley: exactly zero tax dollars should be used to assist/compensate anyone for damages and losses.
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PostMay 14, 2013#78

^Bingo
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PostMay 14, 2013#79

I wonder what kind of insurance policies are in place
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PostMay 14, 2013#80

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If another 500 year flood like 1993 ever hits again and floods the Chesterfield Valley: exactly zero tax dollars should be used to assist/compensate anyone for damages and losses.
Good luck with that. Hopefully that doesn't occur until 2493 when St. Louis has sprawled all the way to KC.
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PostMay 14, 2013#81

kbshapiro wrote:These outlet tenants sign long term leases, so it will be a long time, if ever, that the Simon StL Premium Outlet Mall will fail.
Now c'mon, "if ever"?
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PostMay 14, 2013#82

dweebe wrote:
pat wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If another 500 year flood like 1993 ever hits again and floods the Chesterfield Valley: exactly zero tax dollars should be used to assist/compensate anyone for damages and losses.
Good luck with that. Hopefully that doesn't occur until 2493 when St. Louis has sprawled all the way to KC.
The term is confusing.
According to the FEMA FAQ website, a 100-year flood is defined as:

The term "100-year flood" is misleading. It is not the flood that will occur once every 100 years. Rather, it is the flood elevation that has a 1-percent chance of being equaled or exceeded each year. Thus, the 100-year flood could occur more than once in a relatively short period of time. The 100-year flood, which is the standard used by most Federal and state agencies, is used by the NFIP as the standard for floodplain management and to determine the need for flood insurance. A structure located within a special flood hazard area shown on an NFIP map has a 26 percent chance of suffering flood damage during the term of a 30 year mortgage.

Similar to a 100-year flood, a 500-year flood has a 0.2-percent chance of being equaled or exceeded each year (FEMA, 2009). Information on specific flood zones is available through the FEMA Flood Zones website.
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PostMay 14, 2013#83

urban_dilettante wrote:^ it may be leased now but that doesn't mean it can't fail. anyway, Justme123 said that he/she spoke with Chesterfield/West County residents, not "Westfield". there is no lying or misleading going on, just speculative conversation among people who don't seem too excited about these developments.
Right, I have no connection whatsoever to Westfield. My comments were just from small-talk chatting with people who live in the area - basically they cannot believe that anyone thinks two outlet malls are a good idea, and that the further-west location is "way out there" (I know. The irony.) compared to the stuff at Boones Crossing.

OTOH, the western location is closer to the St. Charles County market, so who knows. It is interesting to me that at least one of the tenants (J Crew Factory) has apparently signed on with *both* locations.

It's true that the tenant list for the Taubman location (is that the eastern/Boones Crossing location?) looks pretty darn sparse. The Premium list has more listed, mostly the usuals:
http://www.chesterfield.mo.us/city-projects.html

[Off-topic: How is that open-air shopping place in Lake St. Louis doing? (the Meadows? Von Maur is/was there.) Never been there; never heard anyone say they've been there.]
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PostMay 14, 2013#84

chesterfieldkid03 wrote:
kbshapiro wrote:You're correct. I misread his post. My apologies. These outlet tenants sign long term leases, so it will be a long time, if ever, that the Simon StL Premium Outlet Mall will fail.
Just because a tenant signs a long term lease does not guarantee success. As an example, look at the Mills mall. Saks Fifth Avenue off 5th closed after only 2 years, and Lucky Strike Lanes didn't even last 6 months. If a retailer is not performing well, they will have no problem with closing up shop and moving on, lease or no lease.

I've also heard that Chesterfield Mall is working on signing some new to market tenants and is trying to make a move towards more upscale stores. Chesterfield Mall can still be successful with these new outlet malls if they get these new to market stores or more upscale store. Consumers who come from out of town to go to the outlet malls will will be likely to stop by Chesterfield Mall to shop at stores that they don't have in there town.

All good points. I just think the probability of a high end outlet mall succeeding in Chesterfield is much great than a pieced together half mall/ half outlet mall in the middle of nowhere in Hazelwood.

And yes, I've heard as well that Chesterfield Mall is pursuing some unique retailers. Hopefully it works out. Chesterfield Mall sits on great real estate, so long term, I think things will get better there.

PostMay 14, 2013#85

Alex Ihnen wrote:
kbshapiro wrote:These outlet tenants sign long term leases, so it will be a long time, if ever, that the Simon StL Premium Outlet Mall will fail.
Now c'mon, "if ever"?
Ok, your right "if ever" was a bit overkill. I think it will be a long time before the Simon Premium Outlet Mall could fail considering the location of the property and the great tenant lineup.
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