My late sister's husband and his second wife both work in the county. (He for Enterprise and she for Centene.) He's lived in the county nearly forever. They just decided to move to the city. (Into a house that never got officially listed. So . . . yeah, one more quick turnover. Things are moving fast.) They do pretty well for themselves, and I can't imagine they are unaware of the earnings tax, but they seem undissuaded. I can't imagine a tax comparable to every other city worthy of mention in the U. S. is remotely a problem to recruiting. The only reason corporations can attack such things is that they're a thing of older cities and not of suburbs and it's become impossible for anyone to raise a new tax, so they can pit one against the other and we're mostly so very parochial we don't realize just how very common a city income tax really is.
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We moved from the County as well. What people often forget are how low property taxes are for homes in the city too. We pay 900 a year. Save thousands from almost any home we looked at in the county.symphonicpoet wrote:My late sister's husband and his second wife both work in the county. (He for Enterprise and she for Centene.) He's lived in the county nearly forever. They just decided to move to the city. (Into a house that never got officially listed. So . . . yeah, one more quick turnover. Things are moving fast.) They do pretty well for themselves, and I can't imagine they are unaware of the earnings tax, but they seem undissuaded. I can't imagine a tax comparable to every other city worthy of mention in the U. S. is remotely a problem to recruiting. The only reason corporations can attack such things is that they're a thing of older cities and not of suburbs and it's become impossible for anyone to raise a new tax, so they can pit one against the other and we're mostly so very parochial we don't realize just how very common a city income tax really is.
Not to mention the city is the only muni that puts in any effort at all for those without a home. I'm usually pretty happy to pay the E tax.
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I just moved my company (about 20 jobs) into the city. Some of us live in the county and will now have to pay the earnings tax, but it wasn't really a concern.
That seems really low. Does your place maybe have some tax abetment?brianadler6545 wrote: ↑Dec 12, 2020We moved from the County as well. What people often forget are how low property taxes are for homes in the city too. We pay 900 a year. Save thousands from almost any home we looked at in the county.symphonicpoet wrote:My late sister's husband and his second wife both work in the county. (He for Enterprise and she for Centene.) He's lived in the county nearly forever. They just decided to move to the city. (Into a house that never got officially listed. So . . . yeah, one more quick turnover. Things are moving fast.) They do pretty well for themselves, and I can't imagine they are unaware of the earnings tax, but they seem undissuaded. I can't imagine a tax comparable to every other city worthy of mention in the U. S. is remotely a problem to recruiting. The only reason corporations can attack such things is that they're a thing of older cities and not of suburbs and it's become impossible for anyone to raise a new tax, so they can pit one against the other and we're mostly so very parochial we don't realize just how very common a city income tax really is.
Not to mention the city is the only muni that puts in any effort at all for those without a home. I'm usually pretty happy to pay the E tax.
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Old industrial cities trying to cope with a new economy by taxing more. Looks like Ohio cities only collect from wages and not businesses. Do Seattle, San Fran, LA, Denver, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Nashville, Atlanta, Miami, NYC, Boston?sc4mayor wrote: ↑Dec 11, 2020^ I think maybe a reduced e-tax might convince a local company or two to open up an office in the city...but in terms of business growth overall I don’t buy it. A similar discussion was had upthread but most companies are looking for good quality of life, civic infrastructure, schools, etc. In many areas, St. Louis can’t provide that largely because of its fragmented dysfunction...not the e-tax, which covers only 10% of the entire Metro area. Columbus, Ohio has a 2.5% income tax...they’re not hurting for companies to open up offices and move jobs there. Cincinnati and Cleveland have income taxes as well. Philadelphia's is 3.98%...Pittsburgh's is 3%...Detroit's is 2.5% (1.25% for nonresidents)...Washington DC's is 8.5% (!!!!!) over $40,000...Louisville's is 2.2% (1.45% on nonresidents)...Baltimore's is 3.05%...etc...
And like most Republicans dying to eliminate a tax in a jurisdiction they don’t represent...they yet again fail to provide an alternative source of revenue for the nearly $200 million the e-tax produces every year. Eliminate that and see how many businesses move here when the city literally can’t pay cops and firefighters.
I don't think most people here in STL care about the income tax they pay because they don't even look at it. I bet AB looks at the amount they pay though.
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AB has an entire department dedicated to figuring out how to not pay taxes, i think they're doing just fine with the e-taxflipz wrote: ↑Dec 14, 2020Old industrial cities trying to cope with a new economy by taxing more. Looks like Ohio cities only collect from wages and not businesses. Do Seattle, San Fran, LA, Denver, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Nashville, Atlanta, Miami, NYC, Boston?sc4mayor wrote: ↑Dec 11, 2020^ I think maybe a reduced e-tax might convince a local company or two to open up an office in the city...but in terms of business growth overall I don’t buy it. A similar discussion was had upthread but most companies are looking for good quality of life, civic infrastructure, schools, etc. In many areas, St. Louis can’t provide that largely because of its fragmented dysfunction...not the e-tax, which covers only 10% of the entire Metro area. Columbus, Ohio has a 2.5% income tax...they’re not hurting for companies to open up offices and move jobs there. Cincinnati and Cleveland have income taxes as well. Philadelphia's is 3.98%...Pittsburgh's is 3%...Detroit's is 2.5% (1.25% for nonresidents)...Washington DC's is 8.5% (!!!!!) over $40,000...Louisville's is 2.2% (1.45% on nonresidents)...Baltimore's is 3.05%...etc...
And like most Republicans dying to eliminate a tax in a jurisdiction they don’t represent...they yet again fail to provide an alternative source of revenue for the nearly $200 million the e-tax produces every year. Eliminate that and see how many businesses move here when the city literally can’t pay cops and firefighters.
I don't think most people here in STL care about the income tax they pay because they don't even look at it. I bet AB looks at the amount they pay though.
^^ I wouldn’t exactly consider Washington State, California, Colorado, Illinois, New York (NYC does have an individual income tax too, it’s notorious) or Massachusetts (all of which levy state income taxes) to be these low tax havens you seem to be advocating for. Edit. Washington State does not have an income tax, however its tax system is considered one of the most regressive in the Country since poor people pay a larger share of their income than rich folks do (some of the highest sales taxes in America). Otherwise, most of these states have higher income taxes than Missouri.
Again...Texas and Florida have variables that other states can’t compete with. A multi-billion dollar energy industry in Texas and a multi-billion dollar tourism industry in Florida. St. Louis and Missouri do not, and will not ever have that. So again, I’ll ask...what do we backfill the city’s coffers with once we eliminate the nearly $200 million that goes to pay for our police and fire departments? You think the crime is bad now? You think AB and Bayer and the other Fortune 500s are going to stick around when we literally can’t put cops on the street? LOL
Again...Texas and Florida have variables that other states can’t compete with. A multi-billion dollar energy industry in Texas and a multi-billion dollar tourism industry in Florida. St. Louis and Missouri do not, and will not ever have that. So again, I’ll ask...what do we backfill the city’s coffers with once we eliminate the nearly $200 million that goes to pay for our police and fire departments? You think the crime is bad now? You think AB and Bayer and the other Fortune 500s are going to stick around when we literally can’t put cops on the street? LOL
Taxpayers in New York City have to pay local income taxes in addition to state taxes. Like the state’s tax system, NYC’s local tax rates are progressive and based on income level and filing status. There are four tax brackets starting at 3.078% on taxable income up to $12,000 for single filers and married people filing separately. The top rate for individual taxpayers is 3.876% on income over $50,000. The rates are the same for couples filing jointly and heads of households, but the income levels are different.
I'm arguing that the income tax on businesses has an effect on growth and is representative of the local politics. You are saying that it doesn't matter because others have it too but none of the cities you listed are beacons of success. They are more or less on par with STL with the exception of DC.
I think the tax is costing us some growth but that the city needs the tax currently to function. Adjustments need to be made but nobody wants to take any risks so they maintain the status quo. Maybe with fewer aldermen they will be able to get more things done.
I think the tax is costing us some growth but that the city needs the tax currently to function. Adjustments need to be made but nobody wants to take any risks so they maintain the status quo. Maybe with fewer aldermen they will be able to get more things done.
^ But many of those other cities you mentioned are in states with higher income taxes than Missouri...Texas has some of the highest property taxes in the US. Why are they all growing then?
I would also argue that Columbus and Louisville and doing better than us in many regards. Especially growth. Even Philly is...between 2017 and 2018 Metro Philly added close to 20,000 people. In the last 5 years Metro St. Louis has added 7,000. Between 2010 and 2019 Philly proper added nearly 60,000 residents...how many did St. Louis proper add? In that same time frame Metro Baltimore grew at about 3.3%, Columbus grew at 11.58%, Cincinnati at 3.81%, Louisville at 5.19%...Metro St. Louis? 0.56%.
I would also argue that Columbus and Louisville and doing better than us in many regards. Especially growth. Even Philly is...between 2017 and 2018 Metro Philly added close to 20,000 people. In the last 5 years Metro St. Louis has added 7,000. Between 2010 and 2019 Philly proper added nearly 60,000 residents...how many did St. Louis proper add? In that same time frame Metro Baltimore grew at about 3.3%, Columbus grew at 11.58%, Cincinnati at 3.81%, Louisville at 5.19%...Metro St. Louis? 0.56%.
I have written this before in another thread and will write it again here: my job involves to some extent contacting local employers regarding hiring and expansion conditions. That I remember, taxes never came up. Cross-state differences in local taxation in the United States are too small to overwhelm other factors when companies choose where to locate. Only a relatively small fraction of the population seems to take taxes into account when choosing to locate (mostly retirees).
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Another former Shop'n Save that Schnucks purchased in 2018 is closing - this one in south county.
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... f8674.html
We really need more grocery competition. There is very little competition within the grocery market, especially the middle and higher ends where Schnucks and Dierbergs dominate. As a region that prides itself on a low cost of living, our groceries cost too much. As was mentioned in another thread, groceries are much cheaper in Chicago.
I'm posting the article here because I hope this problem is on Greater StL's radar. Hyvee and Kroger already have footprints in the state and would appear to be the most likely candidates for entering/expanding in the region.
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... f8674.html
We really need more grocery competition. There is very little competition within the grocery market, especially the middle and higher ends where Schnucks and Dierbergs dominate. As a region that prides itself on a low cost of living, our groceries cost too much. As was mentioned in another thread, groceries are much cheaper in Chicago.
I'm posting the article here because I hope this problem is on Greater StL's radar. Hyvee and Kroger already have footprints in the state and would appear to be the most likely candidates for entering/expanding in the region.
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I remember when Schnucks had a few stores in Kansas City. Price Chopper and Hyvee seemed to have no problem elbowing them out of the market.
I wonder if the reverse would happen if Hyvee were to try to break into St. Louis. There's probably a good reason why they haven't made that leap yet.
I wonder if the reverse would happen if Hyvee were to try to break into St. Louis. There's probably a good reason why they haven't made that leap yet.
Kroger is already here in the form of Ruler Foods. St. Ann, St. Charles, and Belfontaine Neighbors have locations. There are more on the Ill side.BellaVilla wrote: ↑Jan 28, 2021Another former Shop'n Save that Schnucks purchased in 2018 is closing - this one in south county.
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... f8674.html
We really need more grocery competition. There is very little competition within the grocery market, especially the middle and higher ends where Schnucks and Dierbergs dominate. As a region that prides itself on a low cost of living, our groceries cost too much. As was mentioned in another thread, groceries are much cheaper in Chicago.
I'm posting the article here because I hope this problem is on Greater StL's radar. Hyvee and Kroger already have footprints in the state and would appear to be the most likely candidates for entering/expanding in the region.
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Ruler is competition for Save a Lot, not Schnucks.stlwahoo wrote: ↑Jan 28, 2021Kroger is already here in the form of Ruler Foods. St. Ann, St. Charles, and Belfontaine Neighbors have locations. There are more on the Ill side.BellaVilla wrote: ↑Jan 28, 2021Another former Shop'n Save that Schnucks purchased in 2018 is closing - this one in south county.
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... f8674.html
We really need more grocery competition. There is very little competition within the grocery market, especially the middle and higher ends where Schnucks and Dierbergs dominate. As a region that prides itself on a low cost of living, our groceries cost too much. As was mentioned in another thread, groceries are much cheaper in Chicago.
I'm posting the article here because I hope this problem is on Greater StL's radar. Hyvee and Kroger already have footprints in the state and would appear to be the most likely candidates for entering/expanding in the region.
I love Hyvee. When I lived in CoMo, it was my preferred grocery store. Great butcherKansasCitian wrote: ↑Jan 28, 2021I remember when Schnucks had a few stores in Kansas City. Price Chopper and Hyvee seemed to have no problem elbowing them out of the market.
I wonder if the reverse would happen if Hyvee were to try to break into St. Louis. There's probably a good reason why they haven't made that leap yet.
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We had Price Chopper here for a few years back in the '90s. They didn't last too long.KansasCitian wrote: ↑Jan 28, 2021I remember when Schnucks had a few stores in Kansas City. Price Chopper and Hyvee seemed to have no problem elbowing them out of the market.
I wonder if the reverse would happen if Hyvee were to try to break into St. Louis. There's probably a good reason why they haven't made that leap yet.
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To be honest with you, I think Schnucks and Hyvee feel fairly similar. Hyvee does seem to focus a lot more on warm meals than most Schnucks I have encountered.
At the Hyvee at 95th & Antioch in Overland Park, Kansas, there is a second floor bar with TVs. It might be interesting to see something like that in St. Louis, though you're not going to see it in the city. Hyvee is yet to set up shop anywhere considered urban in the Kansas City area.
What I like shopping at in St. Louis are neighborhood grocers. Viviano's on The Hill is a perfect example of this.
At the Hyvee at 95th & Antioch in Overland Park, Kansas, there is a second floor bar with TVs. It might be interesting to see something like that in St. Louis, though you're not going to see it in the city. Hyvee is yet to set up shop anywhere considered urban in the Kansas City area.
What I like shopping at in St. Louis are neighborhood grocers. Viviano's on The Hill is a perfect example of this.
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STL used to have a bunch of Krogers. and National (which still exists in Canada—same logo different name i think—but i guess the US arm went bankrupt and got bought by guess who). the grocery scene is pretty dismal is STL, IMO. i've brought this up before in other threads. while i don't want to see Schnucks go under, they need to step up their game. and D'bergs needs to enter the damn city.
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I don't really know the brands that might be able to enter St. Louis from the east.
What is the grocery scene like in Indianapolis? Cincinnati? Louisville? Memphis?
I would think Ohio cities would be dominated by Kroger, much in the same way that we are dominated by Schnucks.
What is the grocery scene like in Indianapolis? Cincinnati? Louisville? Memphis?
I would think Ohio cities would be dominated by Kroger, much in the same way that we are dominated by Schnucks.
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^ Wegmans, Publix, Giant, Harris Teeter to name a few. Kroger is all over the place in the Mid-Atlantic as well. And I do like HyVee from my days in Kirksville.
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We probably just need Piggly Wiggly to do a big St. Louis flex.