There are different schools of thought on this subject, but it has nothing to do with becoming "mainstream St. Louis" or fear of thinking big.
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Gasm is not afraid to think big. To me, Gasm is brave enough to think critically about the myriad and difficult-to-balance choices that we will face as the city grows.
I can appreciate the differing opinions here. I simply feel that keeping the Arch the tallest structure in town is part of the character of the city. I want more tall buildings- LOTS of them. But I like the idea of the Arch standing guard over everything else. That said, I can live with a supertall skyscraper, even though it would be out of place in our squatty old city.
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From the January 20, 2006 print edition
McGuire, Ghazi change plans, name for Bottle District
Lisa R. Brown
The $300 million Bottle District planned for north of downtown will begin taking shape in March with a new name and changes to its original design.
The 18.5-acre development on the site of McGuire Moving & Storage is now being marketed as the Gateway Village. The Bottle District theme, named for century-old bottles unearthed on the site, will be the name of the development's entertainment and dining district.
The changes were made after Dan McGuire, owner of the property and the driver behind the development, brought Charlotte, N.C.-based The Ghazi Co. on as a joint venture partner last fall. McGuire said that as the project gained momentum in 2005, it was time to partner with a company with experience as a lead developer. Clayco is the general contractor, and New York-based Studio Daniel Libeskind, working in conjunction with Clayco's Forum Studios, is designing the project. DMR Architects of Charlotte is also working with Forum Studios on the master planning of the site.
"We're not a developer," McGuire said. "We managed to bring it this far, and we think we've done a terrific job." The Ghazi Co. is now handling leasing at the Bottle District. "We're handling what we had in the works before they joined," said Matt Bernsen, marketing director for the Bottle District. "They have experience with mixed-use development that we don't, and they have a list of tenants that aren't in St. Louis that they work with on the East Coast."
McGuire is narrowing his choices for financing the project among three lenders. Royal Banks of Missouri financed property acquisition for the project.
"(Ghazi Co.'s) concern was being able to bring residential to the project," McGuire said. "By changing part of the name, it gives them a lot more opportunity to bring in residential developers." McGuire said it's still undetermined what amount of residential the project will contain. The new plans call for at least two 35-story residential towers and possibly a taller one, he said. Previous plans showed three residential towers, at 24, 28 and 32 stories in height.
Read More
McGuire, Ghazi change plans, name for Bottle District
Lisa R. Brown
The $300 million Bottle District planned for north of downtown will begin taking shape in March with a new name and changes to its original design.
The 18.5-acre development on the site of McGuire Moving & Storage is now being marketed as the Gateway Village. The Bottle District theme, named for century-old bottles unearthed on the site, will be the name of the development's entertainment and dining district.
The changes were made after Dan McGuire, owner of the property and the driver behind the development, brought Charlotte, N.C.-based The Ghazi Co. on as a joint venture partner last fall. McGuire said that as the project gained momentum in 2005, it was time to partner with a company with experience as a lead developer. Clayco is the general contractor, and New York-based Studio Daniel Libeskind, working in conjunction with Clayco's Forum Studios, is designing the project. DMR Architects of Charlotte is also working with Forum Studios on the master planning of the site.
"We're not a developer," McGuire said. "We managed to bring it this far, and we think we've done a terrific job." The Ghazi Co. is now handling leasing at the Bottle District. "We're handling what we had in the works before they joined," said Matt Bernsen, marketing director for the Bottle District. "They have experience with mixed-use development that we don't, and they have a list of tenants that aren't in St. Louis that they work with on the East Coast."
McGuire is narrowing his choices for financing the project among three lenders. Royal Banks of Missouri financed property acquisition for the project.
"(Ghazi Co.'s) concern was being able to bring residential to the project," McGuire said. "By changing part of the name, it gives them a lot more opportunity to bring in residential developers." McGuire said it's still undetermined what amount of residential the project will contain. The new plans call for at least two 35-story residential towers and possibly a taller one, he said. Previous plans showed three residential towers, at 24, 28 and 32 stories in height.
Read More
I;m glad to see Libenskind is still the architect and contruction begins in March on two towers, which makes me pretty happy.
Gateway Village??? What a stupid, contrived name. What are we, Kalamazoo?
Maybe we can just know it as north 6th street and not care what the marketing name was?
STLgasm wrote: That said, I can live with a supertall skyscraper, even though it would be out of place in our squatty old city.
Give me a break. Where's our self-esteem? We deserve a big tower or two, or three, or twelve.
phobia wrote:Maybe we can just know it as north 6th street and not care what the marketing name was?
I like that notion. Ten years from now, when people pick up the newspaper to look for condos in the classified, they will all be listed under Downtown. And we will begin to know them by their individual names. I hope they aren't named Gateway Village Tower I, Gateway Village Tower II, Gateway Village Tower II. I would prefer The Gateway, The Laclede, & The Post (or something like that), so they take individual identities, become part of greater downtown, and not a "development".
My personal preference is to call neighborhoods after the nearest Metro stop. That shows how important Metro is to the city and how integrated the city is with it's Metro system.
In the meantime, I can understand their wish to give a brand name. It must help with marketing, working with banks, developers, designers, etc. I don't understand why they feel the residential & the retail should have two different identities. Maybe it is because of what I said, so the residential section can eventually take on it's own identity and become part of the greater neighborhood.
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Expat wrote:I hope they aren't named Gateway Village Tower I, Gateway Village Tower II, Gateway Village Tower II. I would prefer The Gateway, The Laclede, & The Post (or something like that), so they take individual identities, become part of greater downtown, and not a "development".
According to the most recent siteplan from The Ghazi Company, they are showing the names to be "Skyline Tower", "The Vue Tower", "Trade Mark Tower", "Park Avenue Tower". Although with things changing all the time, you can't rely on the site plan too much.
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The residential aspect of the development is being marketed as the Gateway Village.
What creativity! Sounds like the name for senior apartments.
This makes no sense to me. If you looking for a cool urban place to live would you choose...
A) The Bottle District
B) Gateway Village
This doesn't make any sense to me. If you are trying to build a neighborhood and can brand it anyway you like, why split the naming and marketing of the retail and entertainment from the residential? To me part of the appeal to the place would be being part of all the other things going on there.
What do you think? I think the Bottle District's marketing manager checks-in here every now and again, I'd be curious about his thoughts and maybe a deeper explanation of the decision.
If you have to go with the "village" concept, at least try something a little more unique and catchy. How about this...
Vess Village
Gateway Village=Boring.
Glad to see financing options are in the works.
Glad to see financing options are in the works.
- 10K
Gateway Village=Boring.
Gateway Anything = Boring. There are so many companies, developments, etc. with the name "Gateway" here, it's ridiculous.
Now Vess Village, that's more creative!
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I would prefer The Gateway, The Laclede, & The Post (or something like that)
Keeping with the Soda theme how about:
The Cola
The Grape
The Lemon-Lime
The Cream
The Root Beer
and
The Whistle
now there is a Bottle District!
Google Vess Soda and you will get a picture of the bottle fully lighted.
If they build a really thin tower next to The Cola, they could call it The Diet Cola.
Hopfuly, the March time table does work forward.
And yes, the Gateway VIllage is a horrible name and shows that Ghazi is naming with little knowlege of the area they build in. Hopfuly, a few ideas here get back to them and the names change.
as for names, I think the Vess theme is a good call. Stick with the Bottle District name for the whole project and rename the individual tower the:
Vess, The Whstle, and the 7 (after 7-Up, once a Vess product).
And yes, the Gateway VIllage is a horrible name and shows that Ghazi is naming with little knowlege of the area they build in. Hopfuly, a few ideas here get back to them and the names change.
as for names, I think the Vess theme is a good call. Stick with the Bottle District name for the whole project and rename the individual tower the:
Vess, The Whstle, and the 7 (after 7-Up, once a Vess product).
If you're on the bottle topic, where's 'The Ale', 'The Lager', 'The Stout'? 
Back on the heigh subject, I am with Gasm here, actually. Althoug I don't have a problem building taller than the arch, the Arch is sort of a symbol that needs to be very much inthe forefront. If you look at the western view of the city, the Arch does impose on the rest of the city, and that should be kept. And it can with building taller buildings. But we should be careful what is built closer to the Arch. The Metropolitan is almost the size as the Arch, but it looks much smaller because it is set back. Same with the SBC building. If the building is set back far enough, it isn't a problem. But I really don't care to see a giant superscraper built anytime soon. Because I'm in much more favor of high density over imposing hieght.
Back on the heigh subject, I am with Gasm here, actually. Althoug I don't have a problem building taller than the arch, the Arch is sort of a symbol that needs to be very much inthe forefront. If you look at the western view of the city, the Arch does impose on the rest of the city, and that should be kept. And it can with building taller buildings. But we should be careful what is built closer to the Arch. The Metropolitan is almost the size as the Arch, but it looks much smaller because it is set back. Same with the SBC building. If the building is set back far enough, it isn't a problem. But I really don't care to see a giant superscraper built anytime soon. Because I'm in much more favor of high density over imposing hieght.
MattonArsenal wrote:I would prefer The Gateway, The Laclede, & The Post (or something like that)
Keeping with the Soda theme how about:
The Cola
The Grape
The Lemon-Lime
The Cream
The Root Beer
and
The Whistle
now there is a Bottle District!
Google Vess Soda and you will get a picture of the bottle fully lighted.
Uh... "The Cream?"
Xing wrote:MattonArsenal wrote:I would prefer The Gateway, The Laclede, & The Post (or something like that)
Keeping with the Soda theme how about:
The Cola
The Grape
The Lemon-Lime
The Cream
The Root Beer
and
The Whistle
now there is a Bottle District!
Google Vess Soda and you will get a picture of the bottle fully lighted.
Uh... "The Cream?"
"The Ginger Ale"
Anyway, I think height bigger than the Arch would be great and not take away from it at all. I wish someone could photoshop two or three buildings larger than the arch spread symmetrically throughout downtown so we could visualize it. I think one building taller than the Arch would look a little off, but a couple to balance each other out would look just fine, and add to the skyline's appeal from the east. Who cares about the skyline from the west, it wasn't meant to be viewed that way.
Xing put this on the other thread... Awesome!
I'm sorry, but Xing's doctored photo shows exactly the reason why we should have a height restriction. Those buildings would completely throw our skyline off balance and make the Arch look puny and insignificant. The Arch should be the centerpiece. Doesn't anyone agree with me?
I agree with you, unless they find some way to build something in between, and something of similar height on the other side of the arch. I think the high rises of that height may look better in Midtown, because it will appear the same height as the others. It worries me, those buildings are even in the same place as the GM high rises in Detroit. Maybe if it was on the left side, I could say, "hey, it's not like Detroit, because ours are on the left." Alas, no, they're on the same side even.
I think Ill do another skyline, adding the high rises in the Lake District renderings. Just to see what it looks like with balance.
I think Ill do another skyline, adding the high rises in the Lake District renderings. Just to see what it looks like with balance.
Gasm -- Yes, I can see exactly what you mean. And I would prefer to focus on density at streetlevel than height on the skyline. But, at the same time, I get a kick out of new tall buildings. So, I am torn. It is a guilty pleasure. It may not be the very best thing, but hard to resist.
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Oh i dunno about the "no tall buildings thing. I would like to start seeing some new look to the skyline. and eventually if St. Louis continues its growth it will one day be filled in. Which would look pretty cool.