urbanSTL

Have the earlier plans from Downtown Now/HNTB been scrapped, or will those plans be incorporated into whatever is going on now?

I still don't get why they're going to select another design team when HTNB developed a design for the lid a few years ago.

I think its a good idea to go with a new design team. This way maybe we will get some better looking stuff than what happened the first time.



Personaly, I say go with a combo large wide bridge connecting the two parks and lids. I think it could create a teriffic enterence for the park and even better, offer great seating for the Fair in the future.

^ I hadn't thought of that, but a lid would serve as a great place for fireworks seating. The fact that these companies are estimating the cost of a lid and not providing a conceptual design is a sign in my eyes they are moving forward.



*ahem* take note of my new years prediction



http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=1675

I think JM is talking about the bridge concept linking the park in front of the Old Courthouse witht the Arch grounds via a land bridge arching over I-70 in addition to the "lid" of the three new landscaped blocks over the depressed section.



While the land bridge over Memorial Drive was likely more in tune with the Eero Saarinen's vision, I think it's better to have just the lid. My reasoning is that streetlife is better with active sidewalks and calmed intersections. The land bridge would be like any skywalk found about downtown, discouraging folks from walking at-grade along the streets below, which in this case is Memorial Drive.

There's one new concept shown in the latest Arch City Chronicle, I think it's from an architectural grad student at Tulane. It looks like he goes with the land bridge idea. I couldn't find a link to it on their website, you'll have to pick up the hard copy.

The student's concept is a combination enclosed and open-air elevated bridge that moves up and down from Fourth Street east to the Riverfront. Saarinen's concept, I believe, was an open-air land bridge arching from Ely Walker park (in front of Old Courthouse) over Memorial Drive to the Arch grounds, just west of the monument. You can still see the paths that branch off the north and south legs of the monument and head west but dead-end. These dead-end paths would have continued onto an open-air land bridge.



Given the choices between a partially enclosed skywalk (student's concept in ACC) or Saarinen's fully open-air land bridge, I definitely take the latter designed by the same mind as the Arch itself. However, I still prefer just doing the "lid" of three landscaped blocks over I-70 with traffic calming features on the intersections, as this will encourage pedestrian traffic at street-level, as opposed to segregating pedestrian traffic at dual levels. The block under the student's skywalk or Saarinen's land bridge between Market and Chestnut over Memorial Drive would become a less defensible space, hidden in the shadows beneath any bridge above. And motorists would falsely think they shouldn't encounter any pedestrians at intersections as such ped traffic would then be encouraged to cross above-street.

While I would agree that a bridge might reduce pedestrian traffic, I would agrgue that regardless, few people have or will walk along memorial drive in its current state. Even with the proposed lids, the parks in the middle are most likely to become havens for the homeless and beggers, as the buildings along memorial are as unfirendly as you can imagine. People do not cross to and from the arch grounds at any point other than Washington or at the middle park.



If I had my choice it would go like this. Build the north lanes of memorial drive as a lid over the 70 air wells, with a small tree lined median in the middle. Do pedestrian calmining at all the interchanges, with well painted cross walks, count down walk timers, and maybe some bubble corners. Then extend the arch grounds west into the area vacated by the former north bound lanes of Memorial drive. Finnaly, build a bridge to connect the park, landscape it well and hope for the best. This offers people both soultions and best of all gives the possiblity that the green space added might be used when incorperated into the arch grounds, because as space in the middle, it will look like a sad DMZ between the city and Arch.

There's one new concept shown in the latest Arch City Chronicle, I think it's from an architectural grad student at Tulane. It looks like he goes with the land bridge idea.

Looks like it's posted to the web site now (page 2):



http://www.archcitychronicle.com/back-i ... _17_06.pdf

I hope that whoever ends up designing and building this project keeps it SIMPLE. The Arch really speaks for itself. No need to clutter up the ground around it any more than absolutely necessary.

I hope that once the lid has been built, the owners of properties fronting Memorial Drive will take measures to make their buildings a little more pedestrian-friendly. The Adam's Mark, Gateway Tower, etc. aren't terribly inviting right now, at least when approached from Memorial. There is a small (maybe four-story) black glass office building tucked in between two of the Mansion House towers that would be so cool as a restaurant overlooking the Arch grounds - it doesn't appear to be occupied right now and appears to be used as storage.

^^Good points, DeB.



It's two bad that the Arch is cut off from the CBD not only by an interstate highway, but by the two superblocks occupied by Mansion House and the Millennium hotel. Here's hoping the lid will offer an attractive, if only partial, fix.

Though I agree in having better street-facing spaces along the lid, I suspect that retrofitting Gateway Tower and Adam's Mark won't be that easy.



If you walk along these two buildings either side of the park between the Old Courthouse and the Arch, you'll notice that the Memorial Drive sides don't even windows along the street. Gateway Tower sits atop an indoor garage and KMOV's studios, having a completely blank wall face from Market to Walnut, with balconies starting on the third floor. Adam's Mark also has an indoor garage with windows starting on what is the ground floor from Chestnut or 4th, but due to the slope down to Memorial Drive, practically the second floor along Memorial between Pine and Chestnut.



Basically, with both Adam's Mark and Gateway Tower, neither building has floors lining up with the sidewalk along Memorial Drive. And carving out street-level space would mean cutting into the structured parking of either building. As such, I think, unfortunately, retrofitting these buildings for street-level space along Memorial Drive is a very unlikely scenario.

I'd love to see the entire lid turned into a plaza with interesting paving, light fixtures, and wired for stages and festival booths. It'd be a great location for festivals.



Then we can allow the entire Gateway Mall to be developed and bridge the REAL problem gap in Downtown.

Good news from MayourSlay.com:



Danforth Foundation Hires Lid Firm



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Wednesday, February 15, 2006



The Danforth Foundation has contracted with the design firm Arcturis to conduct a comprehensive engineering and urban design study for the Arch Grounds Connector Project. The purpose of the study is to determine if it is possible to pay for, build and maintain a deck over Interstate 70 from the Arch Grounds to Downtown St. Louis between Pine and Walnut Streets.



The Danforth Foundation is funding the work of the engineering and design team at the request of Mayor Francis Slay, who has made the redevelopment of the riverfront and construction of the Arch Grounds Connector his number one development priority.



Arcturis will serve as project manager, lead designer and competition coordinator, as well as be responsible for the completion of the work. Arcturis has assembled a team consisting of Jacobs Engineering, ARUP, ABNA Engineering and Vector Communications.



The project is to be completed in four phases:





Assemble all relevant, as built and existing conditions for the project area;



Develop three design options for the support structure and deck components of the project;



Conduct a competition to select a designer for the public space;



Finalize the overall design and prepare construction and maintenance cost estimates.



The work will be completed by January 2007.



The Danforth Foundation has also contributed funds to Great Rivers Greenway District?s Riverfront Master Plan design process and Senator Danforth has agreed to advise Mayor Slay on how both projects could proceed beyond design to construction, which includes determining the interest of various agencies, organizations and levels of government in providing financial and professional support.

Danforth to state: Put a lid on it

St. Louis Business Journal - May 19, 2006by Lisa R. Brown



The Danforth Foundation is expected to make a request this fall for $50 million in infrastructure tax credits to help fund the proposed $200 million "lid" connecting the Arch to downtown, as well as other improvements to the riverfront.



If funded, the request would be the largest infrastructure tax credit amount obtained on this side of the state and would be tied with a $50 million tax credit allocation issued this year to help fund the $575 million renovation of the Truman Sports Complex in Kansas City.



>>> read more

Hope to see this project get going. $50 million sounds like a lot, but Boston spent $15 billion of (largely) your federal dollars to bury an interstate highway under downtown and restore the street grid above.



I'm a little surprised they are targetting 2015 for completion -- why should a lid take 10 years?

By 2015? The article says it is the 50th aniversary of the Arch making this a great addition linking the park and grid. Anniversary



I still think that the City should request that vendors be able to set up booths near the Arch to draw off the tourists. Tourism

SMSPlanstu wrote:
I still think that the City should request that vendors be able to set up booths near the Arch to draw off the tourists. Tourism

I don't think the city can do that. The Arch grounds are a National Memorial run by the Park Service - and they do not think vendors are appropriate for a memorial.

shadrach wrote:This project is so long overdue that 10 years will make it 30 years too late.



I know it takes that long for financing but wow, we can come up with that money to lure a sports franchise and keep a car plant open and I bet the economic benefits of the lid are as tangible.

Maybe Missouri can come up with a "lid toll". Seems to be their method of choice for feeding DT STL infrastructure projects!

Vendors prohibited because its a memorial. The prohibition can be changed if there is the will to do it. I wouldn't say just any vendor though but something tasteful, discrete, maybe permanent structure, etc...