$150,000,000 capital improvement bond issue

onecity · PostJan 23, 2015#762015-01-23T18:00+00:00

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/exogr ... le/2533338

Going back to a couple comments ca July.

The size of STL's workforce isn't extravagant, nor is average salary. If you click the above link, you'll see it's a mix of both wealthy and poor, well-run and badly-run cities, and there really isn't a trend in terms of population per city employee. Seattle has 56 employees per resident with an average salary over $80k, versus about $45k for STL. Denver, 49. NYC, 32. SF, 28. Detroit, 61. Boston, 65. Memphis, 70.

It would be really interesting to look at a city like Denver or Seattle, and see not just the number of jobs, but the mix of jobs and how those jobs build a city or suck patronage, compared to STL's mix.

quincunx · PostJan 23, 2015#772015-01-23T19:15+00:00

Who's right? Are they including pension payments?

Annual payroll: $300,266,820

dbInSouthCity wrote:
quincunx wrote:The city spends $750M on personnel?
Yes, the city spends 75% of its $1 billion budget on personnel...

sirshankalot · PostJan 23, 2015#782015-01-23T19:22+00:00

see pension obligations

dbInSouthCity · PostJan 23, 2015#792015-01-23T19:42+00:00

Of course i'm right...they are just including paychecks...probably not even including SS or other fed taxes that the city pays for each employees or pensions.

roger wyoming II · PostJan 25, 2015#802015-01-25T16:27+00:00

looks like it won't get to the April ballot.

quincunx · PostMay 26, 2015#812015-05-26T23:20+00:00

On the ballot August 4.

• $26 million for fire trucks and equipment

• $12 million for fire department buildings

• $11 million for police department improvements

• $30 million for the corrections department and other public safety improvements

• $15 million for building demolitions

• $17 million for city streets and bridges

• $32 million for other city buildings, including City Hall

• $9 million for other city vehicles

imran · PostMay 26, 2015#822015-05-26T23:37+00:00

At Lewis Reed's public forum last year, not a single resident was in favor of bond issue money funding demolitions. Most of these will likely be in the already ravaged north side where some rather clueless Alderpeople hold court.

How about $15 million to mothball important historic structures instead?

Northside Neighbor · PostMay 27, 2015#832015-05-27T11:45+00:00

The property taxes on our home have more than doubled in ten years, and just this year we got notified about another 10% increase from the Assessor's office. I think a new property tax will be a hard sell. St. Louis is taxing itself to death.

Sales taxes in some areas are over 10%.

We need to heed the lessons of East St. Louis. Their real estate taxes are in the neighborhood of 10% of the property value per year.

Here in St. Louis we run in the 1-2% range. At some point, people will decide it's not worth it to keep paying more and more for what appears to be flat or declining services.

Heed the lessons of East St. Louis.

And to the last poster, please stop taking gratuitous slams at Northside aldermen, until you've represented a "ravaged" ward yourself.

dbInSouthCity · PostMay 27, 2015#842015-05-27T12:57+00:00

highly doubt this will get 66% of the vote...that is not a "sexy" list, city residents wont even see most of those improvements and that is a hard sell. A lot of those items should have been part of a regular budget that the city would have had if it would just cut it workforce by 5-8%. i would have gone for a bases loaded 2 outs 3-2 count team down 3 runs and hit a grandslam with a $500-700M bond issue with some great visible projects that would show not only the city residents but the rest of the state and country that St.Louis is going to do great things.

quincunx · PostMay 27, 2015#852015-05-27T12:59+00:00

Mine went down 18% 14 v 13 and got notice it's going up 4% this year.

What's killing me as the dramatic rises in my home owner's insurance premium.

roger wyoming II · PostMay 27, 2015#862015-05-27T13:13+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote:I would have gone for a bases loaded 2 outs 3-2 count team down 3 runs and hit a grandslam with a $500-700M bond issue with some great visible projects that would show not only the city residents but the rest of the state and country that St.Louis is going to do great things.

What kind of projects would be on your list?

dbInSouthCity · PostMay 27, 2015#872015-05-27T13:18+00:00

roger wyoming II wrote:
dbInSouthCity wrote:I would have gone for a bases loaded 2 outs 3-2 count team down 3 runs and hit a grandslam with a $500-700M bond issue with some great visible projects that would show not only the city residents but the rest of the state and country that St.Louis is going to do great things.
What kind of projects would be on your list?

Start with what the city had on its A7 list (minus all highway jobs, those aren't city property tax funded responsibility) and expand from there.

PostMay 27, 2015#882015-05-27T13:26+00:00

This was the whole City list and it added up to $236M

North Tract Cargo $5,000,000
Lindbergh Tunnel $600,000
Signals Natural Bridge $25,000
North Riverfront Loop $17,225,000
Midtown Loop $8,025,000
Gateway Bike Plan $2,000,000
22nd Street Interchange $25,000,000
Southwest/Col Bridge $2,000,000
Compton Bridge $1,200,000
FP Parkway bridge $900,000
Grand Drive Bridge $1,600,000
Repave/Sidewalk Hampton $5,800,000
Repave/sidewalk Grand $6,800,000
70/Broadway Ramp $1,300,000
Branch $4,000,000
Hall Street $8,300,000
Rail Spur $0
ADA sidewalks $10,000,000
ADA corners $2,000,000
Goodfellow CS $3,000,000
MLK CS $5,000,000
Grand Center CS $2,800,000
Tucker CS $7,000,000
Lacledes Landing Impr $8,000,000
CBD downtown 7/8th $5,800,000
Clark/Spruce $5,700,000
South Broad CS $3,000,000
South Grand CS $3,000,000
TMS Center $4,000,000
Streetcar $30,000,000
North BRT $8,300,000
West BRT $8,300,000
Metro Bus Stops $900,000
Landing metro Link station $0
Delmar/FP/ MetroLink $14,000,000
N Grand CS $5,000,000
Natural Bridge CS $5,000,000
Vandeventer CS $14,000,000
Morganford CS $2,400,000
Choutea Greenway $0

roger wyoming II · PostMay 27, 2015#892015-05-27T13:38+00:00

^ thanks. Your thoughts are more or less mine as well. It's plausible we could even get an extended Saint Louis Streetcar out of it with say another $100-150 million added to the $30 million. (conceptually the E-W line paid for in large part by a TDD while the less wealthy N/S segment would be subsidized by more taxpayer $$.)

edit.... you could also re-allocate the $16 million for the express bus lines to Saint Louis Streetcar so that would be $46 million right there. With another $100 million or so and expected federal contribution, you'd be up to $200 million which is a pretty decent amount to buttress TDD & operational revenue sources. If you could make a $300 million project say a $500 million one you could go much further up into North City and maybe down to Cherokee on the South.

pat · PostMay 27, 2015#902015-05-27T13:43+00:00

i would have gone for a bases loaded 2 outs 3-2 count team down 3 runs and hit a grandslam with a $500-700M bond issue with some great visible projects that would show not only the city residents but the rest of the state and country that St.Louis is going to do great things.

I agree. $150 million seems weak. Maybe the financial powers that be determined that more debt than proposed is too much. Who knows. But $150 million is going to be spent quickly and before people even recognize it. The only "visuals" that I expect people to notice are road improvements and buildings being torn down. Talk about boring.

I read on Vanishing STL (http://vanishingstl.blogspot.com/search?q=olive) that in 1923 the city took on an $87 million bond issue. That's over $1 Billion in today's dollars! Granted, the city was over twice as large as it is now and growing, but come on. Dream a little people. No sense of vision with our current leadership.

roger wyoming II · PostMay 27, 2015#912015-05-27T14:39+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote:This was the whole City list and it added up to $236M...

If you were to add this to the $180 million bond issue approved for the ballot, we'd basically have $400 million ($17 million of the $180 is for streets/bridges, which I assume would be covered in the $236 million portion.) I'd add on another $100 million or so for an expanded Saint Louis Streetcar, add some home stabilization funds, and call it a day.

dredger · PostMay 27, 2015#922015-05-27T22:32+00:00

My first impression, must be have put a smile on a few auto dealers. Why worry about pot holes when you got new vehicles to wreck. Refurbishing city buildings and facilities will always have a need just as the school district was able to get a bond measure passed a few years ago for the same. So I think that was very much needed

Overall, I do think it is underwhelming. I think the biggest missed opportunity that it appears not to have a dedicated part of this bond to improve infrastructure specific to a new NGA facility and or a major project such as Stl streetcar or a rebuilt 21st interchage/rebuild street grid for downtown west. Maybe Scott can correct me or give some insight on how the bond measure will help retain NGA.

roger wyoming II · PostMay 28, 2015#932015-05-28T01:17+00:00

^ I seem to recall some money for NGA infrastructure, but that only being available if NGA indeed selects the site; if not, those $$ would not be available for McKee to benefit from (so went the argument).

Presbyterian · PostMay 28, 2015#942015-05-28T02:42+00:00

It's not a dream list, but this bond seems to cover costs that need to be covered. I'll support it. We need new fire equipment, and our corrections facilities are shameful.

south compton · PostMay 28, 2015#952015-05-28T14:47+00:00

I'm torn on the bond issue. I support most of what is on the list, but there's also about 150 years of case law throughout the country that says "log rolling" of bond elections is a serious no-no. The City should know better.

"It has long been the law of Missouri that doubleness in propositions submitted to voters in bond elections is to be condemned to prevent the yoking together of distinct things to the end that the two combined may attract a majority of the voters when neither separately might be able to do so." Henkel v. City of Pevely, 504 S.W.2d 141.

jstriebel · PostMay 28, 2015#962015-05-28T18:16+00:00

south compton wrote:I'm torn on the bond issue. I support most of what is on the list, but there's also about 150 years of case law throughout the country that says "log rolling" of bond elections is a serious no-no. The City should know better.

"It has long been the law of Missouri that doubleness in propositions submitted to voters in bond elections is to be condemned to prevent the yoking together of distinct things to the end that the two combined may attract a majority of the voters when neither separately might be able to do so." Henkel v. City of Pevely, 504 S.W.2d 141.

I don't follow. Can you further clarify?

Is it basically that we're not supposed to have bond issues that combine multiple unrelated things?

pat · PostMay 28, 2015#972015-05-28T19:15+00:00

I think that's what he's saying. So you can't take something that nobody wants to bond to pay for, like private cars for all city employees, and toss it in with something that a bunch of people want, like a new streetcar

south compton · PostMay 28, 2015#982015-05-28T20:49+00:00

jstriebel wrote:
Is it basically that we're not supposed to have bond issues that combine multiple unrelated things?

Yes.

hiddeninput · PostMay 30, 2015#992015-05-30T02:00+00:00

If the bond passes, how long will city residents be paying for it? I would hate to still be paying for fire trucks after they've gone out of service, for example.

warwickland · PostJun 05, 2015#1002015-06-05T14:17+00:00

i would have liked to see some money spent on new sidewalks/sidewalk widening and street trees across the entire city.

$150,000,000 capital improvement bond issue

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