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PostJan 26, 2007#51

Unfortunately, the BofA and everyone else concerned has never demonstrated much foresight -- let alone fundamental accounting understanding -- in dealing with the earnings tax. Let us not forget that the last adjustment to said tax was letting off a few dozen megamultimillionaires from paying it under the grounds that taxing stock option exercises was detrimental to keeping businesses located in the City. A few million dollars less in the City coffers and several years later, we all see how well that one worked out.

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PostJan 26, 2007#52

Here's the study for the replacement of the earnings tax with a land tax



http://showmeinstitute.org/smi_study_5.pdf

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PostJan 31, 2007#53

^ today at 11am on 90.7 Don Marsh will be discussing this proposal on "St. Louis on the Air"



you should be able to stream live here

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PostJan 31, 2007#54

Think tank proposes city trade its earnings tax for land tax

By Tim Woodcock

Posted Wednesday, January 31, 2007



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The Show-Me Institute, a conservative think tank, has released a study making the case for the city of St. Louis replacing its earnings tax with a land tax.



Currently people who work or live in the city must pay 1 percent of their earnings to the city, and, in addition, companies based in the city pay a half a percent of their payroll to the city. The situation is similar in Kansas City, Mo.



The city of St. Louis’ 2006 income from taxes totaled $435.5 million. Of that, $170.9 million, or 39.2 percent, came from the earnings and payroll tax. Previous years’ financial reports show a similar reliance on the earnings tax.



Taxing people according to the value of the land they own, not their personal income, would spur growth in St. Louis’ lackluster economy, said Joseph Haslag, a professor of economics at the University of Missouri-Columbia and author of the report. Over time this growth would offset any of the problems associated with the tax, which could be phased in over 10 years and allow the city to continue with its current level of services, Haslag said.



Simply changing the city’s tax structure would not be enough for the city to reverse its 50-year slide, said Rex Sinquefield, president of the Clayton-based Show-Me Institute. Improving the public schools and cutting the level of crime are of a similar level of importance, he said.



The earnings tax is “a tax that says you’re not welcome, especially if you are high income,” Sinquefield said. Creating a business-friendly culture by eliminating the earnings tax would allow the city to capitalize on its assets — the network of highways that serve it, the cultural institutions and the sports franchises that distinguish it from the suburbs — and introducing a land tax in its place would create a virtuous circle, because a property owner’s tax burden would go up only to the degree that the local economy is prospering, Sinquefield argued.



In its mission statement the Show-Me Institute states it is “rooted in the American tradition of free markets and individual liberty” and says “the institute’s scholars seek to move beyond the 20th-century mindset that every problem has a government solution.”



Pure economics



The advantage of a tax on land is that it is less distortionary than other kinds of taxes, Haslag said.



“Because the land is not movable, there is no decision that the land owner can undertake to reduce the tax burden,” he writes in the report. If a landowner were really unhappy with the new tax, he could sell his property holdings in the city, but there would be a new owner who would still be liable to pay the tax. By contrast earnings taxes and sales taxes give people the option of taking their business elsewhere — in economists’ terms they distort the market.



“This is the best economic plan you can bring to the city,” Haslag said. “Among economists this is not a controversial thing.”



A traditional property tax can be seen as a combination of a land tax and a tax on improvements, and if the rates are too high they have the effect of discouraging improvements; furthermore there tends to be differing rates for commercial and residential property and again that distorts the working of the market, Haslag argues.



Under Haslag’s proposal commercial and residential buildings would be assessed at the same rate.



The Show-Me Institute proposal draws on the experience of several small towns in Pennsylvania that have “two-tier” property tax systems. Here the two tiers refer not to residential and commercial rates, but a land tax rate, based on acreage, and building tax rate, based on the structures and equipment on a piece of land.



As with any tax change, there would be winners and losers.



The winners would be people with large incomes who own little property. The losers would be, in the words of the report, “people with low incomes and large property holdings” — most likely seniors. The disproportionate impact on seniors — who are also the group most likely to vote — means that it is hard to imagine these proposals coming into being without some sort of concession being made to pensioners. However, Haslag said, this would be an undesirable distortion of the market.



The implications of a land tax can seem “callous,” Sinquefield said. But if the market dictates that the optimal use for a piece of city land is not for it to be owned by a low-income senior, then that is what the market dictates, he said. The alternative scenario is worse, he said: a city with too many poor retirees would put the usefulness of the city’s earnings tax in jeopardy over the long run anyway.



Haslag’s proposed tax structure would act as a stick to encourage owners of under-utilized property to get it back into use — and a use that offers a good return on investment.



The working assumption of the study is that 75 percent of the city’s 61.9 square miles of land would be taxable. This figure excludes sidewalks, streets and parks. As to whether not-for-profits would pay the tax, “that’s a political issue,” Haslag said.



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PostFeb 01, 2007#55

Yeah, see we have this issue with vacant lots. I don't see how a land tax will help. We cannot even fine these guys but we expect to collect revenue? Maybe people should simply move back and pay property tax. Yeah Rex that sounds like a better plan. Make up a spreadsheet on how to attract back residents...

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PostFeb 01, 2007#56

Doug wrote:Yeah, see we have this issue with vacant lots. I don't see how a land tax will help. We cannot even fine these guys but we expect to collect revenue? Maybe people should simply move back and pay property tax. Yeah Rex that sounds like a better plan. Make up a spreadsheet on how to attract back residents...


If no one is paying the taxes presently shouldn't the city take over the property?



The nice thing about the land tax is that you can't hide land. If no one pays then the city can auction the land to pay the tax. It has been shown in Pennsylvania and elsewhere that a land tax does in fact decrease vacancies - the higher the tax, the lower the vacancies. It makes intuitive sense to if you think about it. The report linked above is pretty good. You should read if it you're doubtful of the wisdom of the tax.

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PostFeb 05, 2007#57

Midtown just lost a business that had grown from ONE to about 60 people in 3 years and they made note of the tax .... AS THEY LEFT for MAPLEWOOD!



It needs to change if the city wants to attract businesses .. :lol:

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PostFeb 05, 2007#58

What biz was that?

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PostFeb 05, 2007#59

Mark Wegmann wrote:Midtown just lost a business that had grown from ONE to about 60 people in 3 years and they made note of the tax .... AS THEY LEFT for MAPLEWOOD!



It needs to change if the city wants to attract businesses .. :lol:


Moosylvania?

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PostFeb 05, 2007#60

That was just Norty posturing. He got a good deal on the property in Maplewood -- and he's certainly had enough businesses in the City in the past that paid the tax.

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PostFeb 05, 2007#61

bonwich wrote:That was just Norty posturing. He got a good deal on the property in Maplewood -- and he's certainly had enough businesses in the City in the past that paid the tax.


The great thing about replacing the Earnings tax with a land tax is that it would not only remove the negative effects of the earnings tax but it would also supply more "good deals on property" as speculators in the city start selling out. More supply means lower prices (initially).



So, although it is counterintuitive, the Land Tax will actually attract businesses into the city. This is shown in the report from the Show Me Institute.

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PostFeb 06, 2007#62

Moose is correct..

Maybe Norty was posturing ( which every smart business owner does when location does not matter ) but he's now in Maplewood and he's NOT paying the tax ..



And he's adding jobs and they are spending money everyday .. IN MAPLEWOOD not the city ...

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PostFeb 06, 2007#63

Norty has run businesses out of his house in Brentwood; the Lucas Lofts; the SLU campus; the Tenholder mansion; the 555 building; and Eric's building. I don't think he suddenly hit his head and woke up to the fact that in all except his house, he was paying the earnings tax.



I suggest that his move had nothing to do with the earnings tax at all.

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PostFeb 06, 2007#64

Norty? Is he the guy from "Animal House?"

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PostFeb 06, 2007#65

not sure about all the other businesses or what the payroll was .. but at 60 people and looking to grow to 100 ... 1% of a few mllion dollars is significant for the honor of being in the city. kinda reminds me of my brothers Rams PSL's .. across the isle they paid 3,000.00 more for the benefit of 5 feet closer to the 50!! HMM what would you do as a business owner with the same option ?



I would agree it was not the ONLY reason but it was one that clearly made it to the negative side of the decision sheet.



Flounder was my favorite .. remember they borrowed his brothers car for the " ROADTRIP " ...

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PostFeb 06, 2007#66

If no one is paying the taxes presently shouldn't the city take over the property?


Well in this town if the City (LRA) took over the property then that would be ideal, assuming the LRA actually had the capacity to market property to the private sector. Instead they allow buildings to deteriorate and lots to remain as such.



Eminent Domain? Well we use that against working class tax payers and from the looks of Bohemian Hill, it seems even hard working rehabbers. We won't take property though when actual blight exists as in the City Centre. Instead we put our credit on the line.

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PostFeb 06, 2007#67

For those who don't have a scorecard: Norty is Norty Cohen, who owns Moosylvania, the sales promotion company that moved out of Olive and Compton (and a nearby photo studio) to Maplewood. Norty had previously been a principal of Zipatoni, the downtown sales promotion firm that sold out to one of the advertising Borg. Zippy started in the building on SLU's campus that housed Greg Bruton's studio and later became Biondi's house, and then moved to the old Tenholder mansion on the bluffs on South Broadway before settling into the 555 building. So he has a track record of moving into funky spaces, which I would be was the primary criterion for him making his latest move into an old church in Maplewood.

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PostFeb 06, 2007#68

Doug wrote:
If no one is paying the taxes presently shouldn't the city take over the property?


Well in this town if the City (LRA) took over the property then that would be ideal, assuming the LRA actually had the capacity to market property to the private sector. Instead they allow buildings to deteriorate and lots to remain as such.



Eminent Domain? Well we use that against working class tax payers and from the looks of Bohemian Hill, it seems even hard working rehabbers. We won't take property though when actual blight exists as in the City Centre. Instead we put our credit on the line.


Yep, that's a problem. Sounds like we need to clean house...especially if a land-tax is implemented and more properties fall in the hands of the LRA.



Also, Eminent Domain becomes less of an issue as the land tax increases. Why? Because with a land tax slum properties become harder and harder to hold on to as nearby land values increase so there is an incentive to either fix up the property or sell it someone who will.



But I agree that many of the existing practices of the city seem quite backward. We need reform on all levels.

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PostApr 19, 2007#69

thought this was entertaining:



Millionaire chess player plans moves to eliminate Missouri income tax, St. Louis earnings tax



What if we allowed sales taxes for purchases within the city to be deducted from the earnings tax? Certainly wouldn't eliminate the earnings tax but could help with things like small businesses and encourage people and businesses in the city to shop within the city. Just an idea to chew.

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PostApr 19, 2007#70

This guy is my idol.

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PostApr 19, 2007#71

migueltejada wrote:The earnings tax certainly had an impact on my friend's decision to stay in dogtown. She left her condo after a year and moved to clayton to avoid paying it. When you're a young professional, losing an extra 1% of your income each year is going to strongly affect your choice to live, especially if you're not tied down.


Uh, was she aware of Clayton's property tax rate? And is she really saving any money in the long run? :?



I can see where businesses object to the 1% tax, but I have yet to hear anyone propose a workable solution that's fair to businesses and residents alike. And my wife and I lose 1% of our income annually, which amounts to several hundred dollars. And we work in the county, so we're paying it for the privilege of living here. Take my lower overall tax burden compared to other suburbs, along with money saved for a short commute (increasingly important as gas prices skyrocket once again), and I cannot complain. I don't miss the 1% that much, and I don't know many people (even those that make much more than my wife and I) that think it's that much of a problem.



You want to talk about a tax that needs to go away, at least from an individual's standpoint? Try Missouri's personal property tax. It may cost much more in Illinois to slap some license plates on your car, but at least residents there don't have the added expense and hassle of a personal property tax for automobiles.

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PostApr 19, 2007#72

I've got a start: Limit the tax to all earnings between $10,000 and $100,000. Right off the top, it would correct the gross disincentive created when the BofA exempted the Civic Progress kazillionaires who exercise stock options but retained the tax on the much larger population of lawyers, accountants and other professionals who get their annual compensation through simple bonuses.



On the bottom side, it would kick back $100 annually to very low-income workers -- and everyone, for that matter -- but I submit that someone making only $10,000 or even $20,000 or $30,000 a year would truly value that extra $100.

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PostApr 19, 2007#73

The earnings tax certainly had an impact on my friend's decision to stay in dogtown. She left her condo after a year and moved to clayton to avoid paying it. When you're a young professional, losing an extra 1% of your income each year is going to strongly affect your choice to live, especially if you're not tied down.


Tell us that's not true! Are you saying that she is paying less rent/has a smaller mortgage in Clayton?

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PostApr 19, 2007#74

tjacorn wrote:


Yep, that's a problem. Sounds like we need to clean house...especially if a land-tax is implemented and more properties fall in the hands of the LRA.


So, how much more would you like to spend?


The City’s current residents now pay for all that abandoned property’s up-keep: $5.2 million a year just to mow the lots, haul away debris, and board up the first floors of abandoned buildings; another $3 million a year to demolish the most dangerous structures. But, the problems are still far larger than the available resources. For the past six years, my primary focus has been to preserve and sell what we can. We have sought – and received — historic status for thousands of buildings throughout the City, making their rehab eligible for tax credits. And we have also worked to identify and demolish those structures that cannot be saved or that have no rehabilitation potential, placing a priority on demolishing those buildings that present immediate public safety hazards.



Our efforts have had some positive results. There were 2,500 abandoned buildings in the LRA-owned inventory in 2001. Today, there are only 1,500 – with many of the once-vacant buildings acquired, safely rehabbed, and productively re-used by private individuals and businesses. We expect the positive trends to continue, but it is not going to happen overnight. Today’s City residents will continue to pay for years to maintain the properties of private owners who abandoned them.


http://www.mayorslay.com/desk/display.asp?deskID=677

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PostApr 19, 2007#75

First - I'm somewhat surprised that the Mayor is even mentioning this issue - I take it as a positive.



Second -
Today, there are only 1,500 – with many of the once-vacant buildings acquired, safely rehabbed, and productively re-used by private individuals and businesses.


I want to know how many LRA properties have been rehabbed. How many residences? How many businesses? And who is doing the work? Have 50% been done by one company? Is it primarily individuals?

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