I've heard from some City Hall folks that there's some private polling showing approval around 70%.addxb2 wrote:Does anyone have a feel on how this might go?
Are there any polls or predictions?
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My impression is that he's about as active in Kansas as he is in Missouri, but maybe it just seems that way because Brownback is friendlier to his ideology than Nixon.urban_dilettante wrote:^ ah, i didn't know he contributed to that. it's all just an experiment to him. he doesn't give a sh*t—he's rich.
Normally, I'd be a good liberal, and vote unquestioningly to approve this tax.
But my interactions with the city over the last year have been absolutely atrocious. I'm not convinced that anyone that "works" there does any work at all. It's a completely and thoroughly dysfunctional organization that needs to be rooted out top to bottom. What's the point of paying them that money if they're just going to squander it?
But my interactions with the city over the last year have been absolutely atrocious. I'm not convinced that anyone that "works" there does any work at all. It's a completely and thoroughly dysfunctional organization that needs to be rooted out top to bottom. What's the point of paying them that money if they're just going to squander it?
Don't you think the real issue is cleaning up city hall and not the earnings tax?
You're not "paying the city" you're paying for services you need and rely on.
Is there waste? Absolutely. And that needs to be addressed, but will eliminating the earnings tax address the issue of government waste? Nope. I bet they still waste your money and piss you off.
I don't get this "i'm going to send city hall a message" argument that has been wrapped up in the earnings tax issue. Send them a message by voting people out of office and working to get people into City Hall that represent your views.
In my mind, voting down the earnings tax would be like cutting off a revenue source that i personally rely on. I'm not going to shoot myself in the foot like that.
You're not "paying the city" you're paying for services you need and rely on.
Is there waste? Absolutely. And that needs to be addressed, but will eliminating the earnings tax address the issue of government waste? Nope. I bet they still waste your money and piss you off.
I don't get this "i'm going to send city hall a message" argument that has been wrapped up in the earnings tax issue. Send them a message by voting people out of office and working to get people into City Hall that represent your views.
In my mind, voting down the earnings tax would be like cutting off a revenue source that i personally rely on. I'm not going to shoot myself in the foot like that.
The city owes me money and has been dragging its feet or has been completely non-responsive on paying it to me for just about 6 months now. Businesses that are this dysfunctional fail and go out of business.
I have bills to pay, but they could care less. Now I have to think about getting a lawyer, going through that whole process, and suing them just to get them to fill out a check that they already agreed to sending me.
It's easy to just get mad and vote out of spite because of these things. As for services, I don't see much. Streets are in poor repair (and when they do repair them, it will be a sloppy job, with unlevel sewers that tear up your suspension, etc.), sewer system is antiquated, schools are dysfunctional, police enforcement is non-existent. When was the last time anyone got pulled over in this city for speeding or running a red light? I almost got killed the other day on my bike because someone decided to cruise through a major intersection that was red...after the light had been red for about 10 seconds. Just completely ignored it.
Sure, removing the earnings tax will only make these things worse, but if we pumped more money into this system, I doubt things would get any better. It would all just get squandered somewhere.
I have bills to pay, but they could care less. Now I have to think about getting a lawyer, going through that whole process, and suing them just to get them to fill out a check that they already agreed to sending me.
It's easy to just get mad and vote out of spite because of these things. As for services, I don't see much. Streets are in poor repair (and when they do repair them, it will be a sloppy job, with unlevel sewers that tear up your suspension, etc.), sewer system is antiquated, schools are dysfunctional, police enforcement is non-existent. When was the last time anyone got pulled over in this city for speeding or running a red light? I almost got killed the other day on my bike because someone decided to cruise through a major intersection that was red...after the light had been red for about 10 seconds. Just completely ignored it.
Sure, removing the earnings tax will only make these things worse, but if we pumped more money into this system, I doubt things would get any better. It would all just get squandered somewhere.
dbInSouthCity wrote:I know 11 people voted and all 11 are yes.
My dad is anti-tax as you can get but as a city resident he knows it would be stupid to vote no on it especially right now
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I'm guessing you really don't want your local municipal government to "go out of business". If Wal-Mart goes bankrupt you can easily just go shop at Target. If city government collapses, you don't get to declare residency in Chicago without some significant life changes.jsbru wrote:The city owes me money and has been dragging its feet or has been completely non-responsive on paying it to me for just about 6 months now. Businesses that are this dysfunctional fail and go out of business.
Got pulled over a couple of years ago for running a red light (or so the officer claimed).jsbru wrote:The city owes me money and has been dragging its feet or has been completely non-responsive on paying it to me for just about 6 months now. Businesses that are this dysfunctional fail and go out of business.
I have bills to pay, but they could care less. Now I have to think about getting a lawyer, going through that whole process, and suing them just to get them to fill out a check that they already agreed to sending me.
It's easy to just get mad and vote out of spite because of these things. As for services, I don't see much. Streets are in poor repair (and when they do repair them, it will be a sloppy job, with unlevel sewers that tear up your suspension, etc.), sewer system is antiquated, schools are dysfunctional, police enforcement is non-existent. When was the last time anyone got pulled over in this city for speeding or running a red light? I almost got killed the other day on my bike because someone decided to cruise through a major intersection that was red...after the light had been red for about 10 seconds. Just completely ignored it.
Sure, removing the earnings tax will only make these things worse, but if we pumped more money into this system, I doubt things would get any better. It would all just get squandered somewhere.
I'd be voting "no" if I could, but I can't as I don't live in the city. Something something taxation without representation. From talking to people I generally get the sense that it will pass by a significant margin however.
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This put into my head the funny idea of someone raging about sales taxes.audac1ty wrote:I'd be voting "no" if I could, but I can't as I don't live in the city. Something something taxation without representation. From talking to people I generally get the sense that it will pass by a significant margin however.
I feel like this should be renamed the "St. Louis City Deathwatch Thread."
My point is kinda that we're already somewhat out of business as it is. The question is, will it be simpler to just kill it and start all over, or do we continue to limp along half-dead for a few more decades? I'd be willing to bet that Detroit comes back stronger than us due to the bankruptcy and rebirth.MarkHaversham wrote: I'm guessing you really don't want your local municipal government to "go out of business". If Wal-Mart goes bankrupt you can easily just go shop at Target. If city government collapses, you don't get to declare residency in Chicago without some significant life changes.
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Taxation without representation doesn't apply in this case. Same way it doesn't apply that the county forces me to pay a sales tax. I'm not forced to buy anything in the county nor is anyone forced to work in the cityaudac1ty wrote:I'd be voting "no" if I could, but I can't as I don't live in the city. Something something taxation without representation. From talking to people I generally get the sense that it will pass by a significant margin however.
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My point is, failing governments don't "go out of business", they "precipitate humanitarian crises".jsbru wrote:My point is kinda that we're already somewhat out of business as it is. The question is, will it be simpler to just kill it and start all over, or do we continue to limp along half-dead for a few more decades? I'd be willing to bet that Detroit comes back stronger than us due to the bankruptcy and rebirth.MarkHaversham wrote: I'm guessing you really don't want your local municipal government to "go out of business". If Wal-Mart goes bankrupt you can easily just go shop at Target. If city government collapses, you don't get to declare residency in Chicago without some significant life changes.
Welp, it looks like Rex wasted another 2 million dollars. Congratulations to Comptroller Darlene Green on the big win!
Think of all the time and energy wasted that could have gone into other problems. And we'll get to do it again in 5 years. It'll be a mayoral election too.
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^ do we have the numbers yet? my concern is that % for will drop a little and the % against will climb a little every 5 years.
With 78.8% counted it's passing 72-28.
I don't see it being repealed by city voters without buy-in by city elected officials.
I don't see it being repealed by city voters without buy-in by city elected officials.
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Remember in 2011 when it was 88-12 there wasn't a NO campaign and a huge yes campaign. This time around the No camp outspent yes 20-1 and still lost 72-28. Next time around if spending is even it would pass 80+
Don't get me wrong, I despise Siquenfield and all he stands for, but I also doubt the majority of the income from the earnings tax is actually being put to good use. I wonder what percentage of it is lost to graft, incompetence, sweetheart contracting deals, and/or fraud/embezzlement.
Redistribution of wealth only works if it goes to either directly enhance services/income to the poor, or to enhance the society as a whole. If it goes to greasing the palms of an incompetent bureaucracy, you might as well just stack a pile of $100 bills into a pyramid and start a bonfire.
Redistribution of wealth only works if it goes to either directly enhance services/income to the poor, or to enhance the society as a whole. If it goes to greasing the palms of an incompetent bureaucracy, you might as well just stack a pile of $100 bills into a pyramid and start a bonfire.
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Some mighty big words. Care to provide any specifics?Don't get me wrong, I despise Siquenfield and all he stands for, but I also doubt the majority of the income from the earnings tax is actually being put to good use. I wonder what percentage of it is lost to graft, incompetence, sweetheart contracting deals, and/or fraud/embezzlement.
Redistribution of wealth only works if it goes to either directly enhance services/income to the poor, or to enhance the society as a whole. If it goes to greasing the palms of an incompetent bureaucracy, you might as well just stack a pile of $100 bills into a pyramid and start a bonfire.
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The answer is the same percentage as all other taxes that go into the general fund. The fact is graft happens, and when it does it should be prosecuted if possible, and if not then the offender should at minimum be fired, voted out of office. You don't address these issues by cutting off government funding at the knee caps. You do it by supporting measures the enforce transparency, supporting local investigatory journalism, and by staying informed and voting and advocating for accountability.jsbru wrote:I wonder what percentage of it is lost to graft, incompetence, sweetheart contracting deals, and/or fraud/embezzlement