Cool photo! I thought everything back then was black and white.
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this made me wonder. correct me if i'm wrong but i think i remember hearing somewhere on here that subway costs roughly between $100-$300 million to build. how much does it cost to reuse some of these old abandonned tunnels? at least how much did it cost per mile to reuse the tunnel metrolink takes under downtown per mile? does most of the cost come from the drilling itself or placing things like ventilation fans down there?
and this is extremely out on a limb but is it at all feasible to somehow use those old caves they used to cool beer in?
and this is extremely out on a limb but is it at all feasible to somehow use those old caves they used to cool beer in?
The picture of the train going toward Illinois is that in the produce row area? I went right around the corner to get my Christmas tree last year and its amazing how different that area has become, its rather depressing. I also found this interesting, I have a friend who's mother worked at the downtown city library. She said when she was little her mom had a key to the basement and took her down there one day. Down there was a tunnel system that connected to the other ones under the city. She also said there was a lake or pond of some sort down there. I even herd these stories from her mom and i know she wasn't pulling my leg. I always thought that was cool.
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Neonrad wrote:...its amazing how different that area has become, its rather depressing.
The first thing you could do is move out of Brentwood/Springfield and into the CITY of Saint Louis, and things would begin improving. From there, encourage all of your friends and colleagues to move into the City. Things would not be so depressing then. I'm serious. Start looking for a place in the City, please. Thank you.
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The problem with the Tucker "tunnel" is that it doesn't go anywhere. Any Madison County MetroLink extension would branch off of the existing line in East St. Louis, using the Eads, not McKinley bridge to cross the Mississippi River. And any Northside extension would need to go further into downtown.
Currently terminating north of Washington, a southern extension of below-grade right-of-way further south (say Tucker to Market then over Clark to existing MetroLink) would be too expensive, easily over $200 million for a little over a mile, and that's even if building cut-and-cover.
Technically not a tunnel, Tucker is actually on elevated structure over the below-grade, abandonned rail line. Thus, reuse of this below-grade space requires the reconstruction of the deteriorated Tucker bridge above it. A recent federal earmark will partially fund future reconstruction. But the status of the below-grade space is uncertain.
The $1-billion-plus version of the new Mississippi River Bridge would have ripped out most of the rail line at and to the west of I-70. Even the $910-million scaled-back MRB or $450-million MLK coupler would still rip out the rail crossing over I-70, visible just south of the Madison overpass. And of course, the rail line heads towards the McKinley Bridge, which is being renovated into a two-lane bridge for motorists, with its former outer lanes reused as a bike-ped trail.
IOW, this near-northside rail line is slowly being lost to planned road projects, and where traveling below-grade just north of downtown, it stops short of a connection to existing MetroLink or any major employment.
Currently terminating north of Washington, a southern extension of below-grade right-of-way further south (say Tucker to Market then over Clark to existing MetroLink) would be too expensive, easily over $200 million for a little over a mile, and that's even if building cut-and-cover.
Technically not a tunnel, Tucker is actually on elevated structure over the below-grade, abandonned rail line. Thus, reuse of this below-grade space requires the reconstruction of the deteriorated Tucker bridge above it. A recent federal earmark will partially fund future reconstruction. But the status of the below-grade space is uncertain.
The $1-billion-plus version of the new Mississippi River Bridge would have ripped out most of the rail line at and to the west of I-70. Even the $910-million scaled-back MRB or $450-million MLK coupler would still rip out the rail crossing over I-70, visible just south of the Madison overpass. And of course, the rail line heads towards the McKinley Bridge, which is being renovated into a two-lane bridge for motorists, with its former outer lanes reused as a bike-ped trail.
IOW, this near-northside rail line is slowly being lost to planned road projects, and where traveling below-grade just north of downtown, it stops short of a connection to existing MetroLink or any major employment.
Neonrad wrote:I have a friend who's mother worked at the downtown city library. Down there was a tunnel system that connected to the other ones under the city. She also said there was a lake or pond of some sort down there. I even herd these stories from her mom and i know she wasn't pulling my leg. I always thought that was cool.
I'm not sure about the tunnels, but there IS a door in a sub-basement of the Downtown Library that opens onto a spring. They showed it on some local documentary on Channel 9 a while back. And yes, it's very cool. Sometimes I wonder that half of St. Louis doesn't collapse into all of the old caves etc. underneath...
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^ Don't know if this was stated already but There are many tunnels leading in and out of city hall. I believe they are gated though.
I remember a pedestrian tunnel from City Hall that crossed under Tucker. I guess it has been sealed for a long time now. Could be others that were used for prisoner transport to the courthouses?
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Framer wrote:I remember a pedestrian tunnel from City Hall that crossed under Tucker. I guess it has been sealed for a long time now. Could be others that were used for prisoner transport to the courthouses?
yup that's what I have heard too.
Framer wrote:Neonrad wrote:I have a friend who's mother worked at the downtown city library. Down there was a tunnel system that connected to the other ones under the city. She also said there was a lake or pond of some sort down there. I even herd these stories from her mom and i know she wasn't pulling my leg. I always thought that was cool.
I'm not sure about the tunnels, but there IS a door in a sub-basement of the Downtown Library that opens onto a spring. They showed it on some local documentary on Channel 9 a while back. And yes, it's very cool. Sometimes I wonder that half of St. Louis doesn't collapse into all of the old caves etc. underneath...
If I'm not mistaken, I believe that this is the spring that is responsible for Chouteau Pond.
There is a great film made a couple years ago called UNDER ST. LOUIS
available on DVD
Has the Metro tunnels and other subway tunnels under the city filmed in this documentary - really good too!
You can get it through PBS - KETC TV
http://ketc.org/
available on DVD
Has the Metro tunnels and other subway tunnels under the city filmed in this documentary - really good too!
You can get it through PBS - KETC TV
http://ketc.org/
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matguy70 wrote:There is a great film made a couple years ago called UNDER ST. LOUIS
available on DVD
Has the Metro tunnels and other subway tunnels under the city filmed in this documentary - really good too!
You can get it through PBS - KETC TV
http://ketc.org/
gracias... i've been looking for some just like that...!!
Chouteau's Pond was created by a dam that was built on Le Petite Riviere AKA, Mill Creek, originally by a man named Joseph Taillon. Taillon's mill and its mill-pond was bought by by Pierre Laclede in 1767. Laclede raised the dam, and greatly expanded the pond at that time. Later on, Chouteau acquired the property and enlarged it once again to the dimensions of the pond in the famous photographs of people boating and relaxing there. I would bet, however, that the spring drained into the pond somewhere, given the topography of the area.
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matguy70 wrote:There is a great film made a couple years ago called UNDER ST. LOUIS
available on DVD
Has the Metro tunnels and other subway tunnels under the city filmed in this documentary - really good too!
You can get it through PBS - KETC TV
http://ketc.org/
Where did you find it on DVD on there? I bought a VHS copy off of there a while back, and that's all I see on there now...
The entrance on N. Tucker and Cass Ave..... I was hesitant to get out of my car here with a large shiny digital camera... The Good angel on my right shoulder told me to stay put. The Bad angle on my left urged me to go explore. I listened to the good angel because I was by myself.... Anyone ventured in here? Are there tresspassing signs posted? Am I gonna get shot at for walking in on a crack deal in these tunnels? If it weren't for tresspassing laws and whoever I might come accross down there, I'd be all about it....
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I wouldn't venture to far into the tunnel because its inhabited by locals. They use it as a semi home and they do take offense from people snooping around. However if you do go down there bring a heavy duty mag light , a pair of sneakers that will more then likely be destroyed , and last but not least a good sense of adventure. Also I wouldn't venture down during the night either ?
On a side note , if you follow the Viaduct rail line north . Eventually you'll come to a elevated section of the rail line that runs north towards the river. I recommended to all that if given the opportunity you check it out because the elevated portion of rail line offers some very unique views of DT.
On a side note , if you follow the Viaduct rail line north . Eventually you'll come to a elevated section of the rail line that runs north towards the river. I recommended to all that if given the opportunity you check it out because the elevated portion of rail line offers some very unique views of DT.
Get the "Under St. Louis" DVD from KETC - they explore it for you - nice and dry, in the comfort of your own home.
Can't seem to find it on DVD. Only VHS. Anyone else find it on DVD?
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Magnatron wrote:The entrance on N. Tucker and Cass Ave..... I was hesitant to get out of my car here with a large shiny digital camera... The Good angel on my right shoulder told me to stay put. The Bad angle on my left urged me to go explore. I listened to the good angel because I was by myself.... Anyone ventured in here? Are there tresspassing signs posted? Am I gonna get shot at for walking in on a crack deal in these tunnels? If it weren't for tresspassing laws and whoever I might come accross down there, I'd be all about it....
going today, thanks for the idea.
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of course, never go alone. we do this every monday, next week im thinking enright middle school..Magnatron wrote:Bring a friend.....
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Principal Skinner says we should always use the buddy system.