urbanSTL

First, not all banks are FDIC insured. Second, I've seen a few banks being built recently (specifically Bank of America) with nothing more than steel structure and CMU walls as seen in countless stripmalls. Unless I am mistaken the regulations to which you are refering applies specifically to the vault. That being said, what I did not mean to speak of the construction materials. I was trying to illustrate is that the finish materials are carefully chosen to give the image of strengh and solidity. If I miscommunicated I apologize. I am not generalizing on the material of rubber, I think that it has its place and that the CBD is not it. Even the example images that you have provided appear to be in a neighborhood.

buckethead wrote:I agree with UE. I think people are getting hung up on the word "rubber".

I would love to see St Louis get these.



It wouldn't say "not classy" to me but cutting-edge. Not classy is the cracked uneven concrete that constantly needs reparied in our environment.

It might be cool to incorporate something like this as part of a "Going Green" campaign for the city - the city could institute a program to start using rubber sidewalks, install a green roof on city hall, promote and expand existing recycling programs, highlight new construction that meets "green" standards, etc. Wouldn't it be nice to be known as an environmentally-friendly city?

BTW, to clarify my previous post - I meant that people might have a problem with rubber sidewalks by themselves, but if part of a larger environmental program, they might be a little more accepting.

I think all that needs to be done is to refer to them as "New low impact sidewalks". Had I never said "rubber" no one would be objecting. People seem to have the idea that these things are bouncy and soft. They are solid as a rock for the most part. They are, after all, mixed with an epoxy resin.

With respect to the rubber sidewalks, I do not find them attractive. They look cheap.



With respect to the existing concrete sidewalks DT, they're fine except for the terrible ones with the red lines.



With respect to paved sidewalks with brick, they are tremendously labor intensive to maintain. My front walk is brick (herringbone pattern) and beautiful, but it cost $5000 to repair last summer (and replace the crumbling bricks). It is more time/$$ intensive because the bricks move (all the time) and brick wears away faster than concrete, creating more variances in grade.



I am a big fan of bricks, but our sidewalks downtown need to be concrete.

I'm not sure how much benefit there would be to installing "eco" sidewalks (rubber or otherwise) in the CBD. Part of the benefit of porus or living sidewalks is that they allow natural water drainage. However, this is an area of St. Louis that has been paved for 100-150 years, and it has extensive tunnels and sub-basements underneath. Allowing the "natural" drainage would just soak concrete and brick basements below.



That being said, I'm all for more environmentally friendly materials -- ESPECIALLY in suburban construction, where homes and businesses are taking away forests, woods, and even farms. In the city, green roofs are a great idea for reducing the "heat island" effect and also reducing net CO2 emission. But I think pavement changes would not produce as much of an env. benefit.

I'm more interested in the very low mainentnce aspect(thereby making theese sidewalks cheaper in the lond run). Also, then perhaps the city could for once not have 50% of its sidewalks cracked and or in shambles. The recycling thing is just the icing on the cake.

Chicago tests sidewalk made of recycled tires

Associated Press



CHICAGO - Rubber tires that once hit the road are now part of the road on Chicago's West Side as part of two environmentally friendly pilot programs.



Under one program unveiled Wednesday, city officials replaced 550 feet of concrete sidewalk with panels made from recycled rubber tires. Officials say they want to see how the material withstands Chicago's harsh weather extremes and heavy foot traffic.



The rubber sidewalk costs two to three times more than concrete but is made of 100 percent recycled tires, doesn't crack and shift the way concrete does and can be easily repaired and removed, officials said.



Rubbersidewalks Inc., a California company, makes the 2-by-2 1/2 foot tiles. If the pilot program is successful, tire recycling could be brought to Chicago, said Cheri Heramb, acting commissioner of the Chicago Department of Transportation.



The first rubber sidewalk is in the Garfield Park neighborhood, near the Chicago Center for Green Technology.



Officials also rolled out the first solar-powered bus shelter Wednesday. Officials plan to erect 100 of the shelters in 2007, Heramb said.



The structures will be powered by solar panels placed on their tops and will save about $200 per year per shelter in electrical costs, she said.



link to story

brickandmortar wrote:Chicago tests sidewalk made of recycled tires

Associated Press



CHICAGO - Rubber tires that once hit the road are now part of the road on Chicago's West Side as part of two environmentally friendly pilot programs.



Under one program unveiled Wednesday, city officials replaced 550 feet of concrete sidewalk with panels made from recycled rubber tires. Officials say they want to see how the material withstands Chicago's harsh weather extremes and heavy foot traffic.



The rubber sidewalk costs two to three times more than concrete but is made of 100 percent recycled tires, doesn't crack and shift the way concrete does and can be easily repaired and removed, officials said.



Rubbersidewalks Inc., a California company, makes the 2-by-2 1/2 foot tiles. If the pilot program is successful, tire recycling could be brought to Chicago, said Cheri Heramb, acting commissioner of the Chicago Department of Transportation.



The first rubber sidewalk is in the Garfield Park neighborhood, near the Chicago Center for Green Technology.



Officials also rolled out the first solar-powered bus shelter Wednesday. Officials plan to erect 100 of the shelters in 2007, Heramb said.



The structures will be powered by solar panels placed on their tops and will save about $200 per year per shelter in electrical costs, she said.



link to story

Well, well, well. Seems one city in the midwest has some vision. Why do we have to let Chicago trump us everywhere? Thanks for the article. Maybe now some skeptics will believe.

Chicago has been on the upswing as a DT for a long time now. We are just coming up (Thanks to people who love AND live (in) the city and some politicians who have a backbone). I think we will have some good things happenning soon.



I, for one, have high hopes of STL becoming a major "investment" centre and attraction for top talent from a research perspective. Once the economy of this region gets a boost, I think DT will become a vibrant hub and will have programs and $ to be more inventive.



Yes...... I am an optimist.

Uh...I was only talking about the sidewalks.

And I was taking a tangent to buck us up.

You mentioned why Chicago was trumping us everywhere. My post was indicating that I am an optimist that we will grow to be much bigger than we are now.

Sidewalks? We will have gold sidewalks instead of rubber mate

driving down Washington past Tucker and stuck in traffic I noticed SEVERAL of the center concrete sections were broken and crumbling.



One of them was even filled in with asphalt. the bricks seems to be sinking in spots and somewhat uneven.



I also have noticed the light standard reflectors are always tilted in a wierd way.



They dont seem to be consistant. They should all look the same. (and replace the bad bulbs please).



Someone please tell me there was maintanence and upkeep included in the funds for this streetscape project.



Is it time to call the alderman (person) and have someone address this?



Pic to follow

citywatcher wrote:driving down Washington past Tucker and stuck in traffic I noticed SEVERAL of the center concrete sections were broken and crumbling.



One of them was even filled in with asphalt. the bricks seems to be sinking in spots and somewhat uneven.



I also have noticed the light standard reflectors are always tilted in a wierd way.



They dont seem to be consistant. They should all look the same. (and replace the bad bulbs please).



Someone please tell me there was maintanence and upkeep included in the funds for this streetscape project.



Is it time to call the alderman (person) and have someone address this?



Pic to follow

Since this was a federally funded enhancement project, then yes the City is required to maintain this. Your best bet would be to contact the alderman.

here is a pic of the slab (I am not sure if it is a stone or just concrete).



It is cracked all the way through, and there is no repairing it, as mentioned before one spot was filled in with asphalt.







My fear is when some wacko subcontractor comes in and starts digging in the street that the condition of the bricks and other features will never get put back right.



The whole stretch needs to be maintained,

and it doesnt seem like it has been lately.

Several of those stones have been replaced in the past. It seems like they wait till there is a bunch of them and go out once a year and do them all in one shot. I would prefer that they be replaced as they break, and maybe the underlying base needs to be properly repaired as well.



Not replacing them right away is projecting the idea that no one cares about all the work that was done, and gives a bad impression to visitors.

Thanks for emailing Alderwoman Phyllis Young





To: Phyllis Young



Subject: WASHINGTON AVE STREETSCAPE



Comment: Hello I am a contributer to URBANSTL.COM forums and I have a comment and question concerning Washington Ave streetscape and maintenance of the bricks and center stones. Several of these center stones are broken and crumbling. They are in need of replacement.. to see my comments and a picture of the decline in the streetscape please see this link:



http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=3240&start=60



look for citywatcher's comment and pic.. please address this as it looks very bad to tourists and residents alike and it is becoming an unsafe problem. a prompt reply is appreciated thanks Pat Forster





Your Name: xxxxxxxxxxx

Your Address: xxxxxxxxxx

Your City/State/Zip: xxxxxxxxx

Your AreaCode/Phone: (314) xxxxxxxx

Your Email: xxxxxxxxx







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to ward page

a comment and question

I see the comment. What's the question?

MattnSTL wrote:Several of those stones have been replaced in the past. It seems like they wait till there is a bunch of them and go out once a year and do them all in one shot. I would prefer that they be replaced as they break, and maybe the underlying base needs to be properly repaired as well.



Not replacing them right away is projecting the idea that no one cares about all the work that was done, and gives a bad impression to visitors.

2 reasons why I wouldn't want them to replace the stones as they break:

- It would be exponentially more expensive to send repair crews out every time one breaks

-Do we really want the repair crews out all the time shutting down the street.



Obviously the stones need to be repaired. I just drove down washington yesterday afternnon and honesly I don't think most visitors even notice it. There are too many beautiful buildings to look at. I think if they did repairs 2X per year that would more than suffice. What kind of warranty does the contractor provide for fixing those tiles. Seems to me that base was not compacted correctly. I'm guessing they don't provide and warranty, but if that was my driveway i'd be livid. (I guess it partially is my driveway) Let's get these babies fixed and make sure they sure up the sinking base. Who knows, there might be a broken pipe under there... ie pine st.

I'd like to see all the delivery trucks start using the alleys behind the businesses instead of stopping in the middle of washington to unload.



That might also help the wear and tear on the streetscape as well as be better for the traffic flow.

I don't know if St. Louis maybe lacks managing some rules of the road. Traffic shouldn't be such an issue in downtown and neither should delivery trucks not using alleys. Intersections all over the city are unmarked/unsigned, streets aren't stripped, signals aren't timed, etc...



A huge innovation occurred only recently on Gravois...they painted lines on the curving intersections so you know where the hell you're now driving. Prior, you just relied on your St. Louis intuition.

I see the comment. What's the question?

Someone please tell me there was maintanence and upkeep included in the funds for this streetscape project.



Is it time to call the alderman (person) and have someone address this?

Did I need to post a direct question?



My point by the pics is to show the condition

of several of the center stones.



I can understand repairs as needed, and as I pointed out and others have noticed IT IS NEEDED.



we have 10,000 visitors this in town this week.



anymore delay and it becomes a safety issue..



thanks PE