i have no problem preferring another term besides ghost building but that's what the STL Biz Journal used and I kind of like it. Doesn't mean that they won't be revamped but they are the challenging, larger buildings that remain to be tackled downtown. Also, the issues with Detroit's "Dinosaurs" and our "Ghosts" largely are the same; I don't know where you come up with that.
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Are there large buildings in St. Louis in which no legal ownership has been established?roger wyoming II wrote:i have no problem preferring another term besides ghost building but that's what the STL Biz Journal used and I kind of like it. Doesn't mean that they won't be revamped but they are the challenging, larger buildings that remain to be tackled downtown. Also, the issues with Detroit's "Dinosaurs" and our "Ghosts" largely are the same; I don't know where you come up with that.
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Are there large buildings in Detroit in which no legal ownership has been established? None of the 10 Dino Buildings in the Free Press feature were in that situation.
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There are. It causes problems like this. http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/vaca ... f/26970840roger wyoming II wrote:Are there large buildings in Detroit in which no legal ownership has been established? None of the 10 Dino Buildings in the Free Press feature were in that situation.
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C'mon, that is an abandoned factory on the west side and the article doesn't even say anything about ownership other than that it is "abandoned," which simply could mean it is vacant. The Dino and Ghost Buildings are specifically about downtown redevelopment and both in downtown and in the more distressed neighborhoods both cities have similar issues although the scale is larger in Detroit.MatthewHall wrote:There are. It causes problems like this. http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/vaca ... f/26970840roger wyoming II wrote:Are there large buildings in Detroit in which no legal ownership has been established? None of the 10 Dino Buildings in the Free Press feature were in that situation.
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These dynamics extend well beyond downtowns. Downtown property markets are not utterly immune to the effects of the larger property markets around them. Are there large buildings in St. Louis that are so 'vacant' that no one is even making an attempt to secure them so as to preserve any of their value?roger wyoming II wrote:C'mon, that is an abandoned factory on the west side and the article doesn't even say anything about ownership other than that it is "abandoned," which simply could mean it is vacant. The Dino and Ghost Buildings are specifically about downtown redevelopment and both in downtown and in the more distressed neighborhoods both cities have similar issues although the scale is larger in Detroit.MatthewHall wrote:There are. It causes problems like this. http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/vaca ... f/26970840roger wyoming II wrote:Are there large buildings in Detroit in which no legal ownership has been established? None of the 10 Dino Buildings in the Free Press feature were in that situation.
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I see Built Saint Louis recently took a good look at not ghost or vacant buildings but outright demo of former downtown towers....
http://www.builtstlouis.net/
I guess I didn't realize how terrible the 70s were; there are 6 former beauties that are forever gone, gone, gone. The most recent listed was the demo of the Saint Louis Republic Building on 700 Olive to make way for the city-owned garage. http://www.builtstlouis.net/opos/223n7th.html
http://www.builtstlouis.net/
I guess I didn't realize how terrible the 70s were; there are 6 former beauties that are forever gone, gone, gone. The most recent listed was the demo of the Saint Louis Republic Building on 700 Olive to make way for the city-owned garage. http://www.builtstlouis.net/opos/223n7th.html
Are you saying there are no vacant/abandoned "large" (what is large, btw?), unsecured properties that haven't been stripped? As I've said, the scale of the problem is larger in Detroit -- larger city, more manufacturing loss, etc. -- but the dynamics are largely the same. Growing Central Corridors, some stable and rejuvenating neighborhoods, and some very much still struggling ones. And the Detroit of 2015 is so much further along the one of even 2011.MatthewHall wrote: These dynamics extend well beyond downtowns. Downtown property markets are not utterly immune to the effects of the larger property markets around them. Are there large buildings in St. Louis that are so 'vacant' that no one is even making an attempt to secure them so as to preserve any of their value?
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I don't think I had ever realized that the International Shoe building was vacant.
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No one even cares enough to demo many buildings in Detroit.roger wyoming II wrote:I see Built Saint Louis recently took a good look at not ghost or vacant buildings but outright demo of former downtown towers....
http://www.builtstlouis.net/
I guess I didn't realize how terrible the 70s were; there are 6 former beauties that are forever gone, gone, gone. The most recent listed was the demo of the Saint Louis Republic Building on 700 Olive to make way for the city-owned garage. http://www.builtstlouis.net/opos/223n7th.html
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I believe that is one of two downtown buildings hit by the Imagine Schools fiasco. It also comes to mind that the large office building on 18th & Pine where the French School is vacating and Lafayette School will have a 1 yr. temp stay beginning this fall will have to find a new tenant(s).Presbyterian wrote:I don't think I had ever realized that the International Shoe building was vacant.
^ presby, did you hear anything more yet on the plans for the Saint Louis Braid ("Intrada") building on Lucas and the adjacent one on Delmar? I didn't include them in the ghost list as I believe they are occupied at the moment.
Yeah, it will certainly take a while to get down to the final ones.... I just hope we have all of them still around, which would be a major accomplishment itself. What also comes into play is perhaps dated and underutilized buildings like Union Trust get an upgrade rather than a ghost building chosen for the redevelopment, or even something like the Crowne Plaza see a residential conversion before some of the vacants.goat314 wrote:Easily a couple more thousand units could be put online with the number of ghost buildings downtown.
Also these are just big "ghost" buildings, still a couple dozen heavily underutilized buildings in downtown west. With our growth rates, still another 20 years before we have a truly vibrant 24/7 type downtown. What sad is, a city like Dallas, Atlanta, or Denver have the growth rates to rehab all of our vacant buildings in a year, but they just don't have our bones.
Just looking at what buildings we've ghostbusted the past 18 months or so, we have the
Lacassian Lofts building,
new Police HQ.
Bride's House (although that one is on the small side),
700 Market
all opened and I think you could also make the case that the CityParc on Pine a a former ghost building as well. And currently under construction are
The Arcade,
827 Washington (new Marriot Courtyard)
1902 Pine "Station Plaza"
1115 Pine (small side)
and I believe another Plaza Square building.
So not too bad and hopefully we'll here some of some more announcements, but as goat314 said it will take some time before we really get to the last stragglers.
EDIT: I guess you could also add the Tower OPOP to the list of the ghostbusted. but like some of the others it is kind of a unique situation.
Lacassian Lofts building,
new Police HQ.
Bride's House (although that one is on the small side),
700 Market
all opened and I think you could also make the case that the CityParc on Pine a a former ghost building as well. And currently under construction are
The Arcade,
827 Washington (new Marriot Courtyard)
1902 Pine "Station Plaza"
1115 Pine (small side)
and I believe another Plaza Square building.
So not too bad and hopefully we'll here some of some more announcements, but as goat314 said it will take some time before we really get to the last stragglers.
EDIT: I guess you could also add the Tower OPOP to the list of the ghostbusted. but like some of the others it is kind of a unique situation.
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The legislation (declaring the properties blighted, approving the redevelopmemt plan and authorizing 20-year abatement) has been working its way through the Board of Aldermen. It took effect on Friday.roger wyoming II wrote:^ presby, did you hear anything more yet on the plans for the Saint Louis Braid ("Intrada") building on Lucas and the adjacent one on Delmar? I didn't include them in the ghost list as I believe they are occupied at the moment.
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With yesterday's generous allocation of New Markets Tax Credits to city-friendly entities there is a good opportunity to ghostbust another building. (Or two!)
I think a home run would be for the Municipal Courts Building or Jefferson Arms with significant commercial or institutional tenant(s). (As mentioned in another thread, the credits can support mixed-use projects that have residential, but only if there is a strong commercial component.)
I think a home run would be for the Municipal Courts Building or Jefferson Arms with significant commercial or institutional tenant(s). (As mentioned in another thread, the credits can support mixed-use projects that have residential, but only if there is a strong commercial component.)
apparently this one is going residential, per Biz Journalroger wyoming II wrote:^^ Anyone know the status of the CPI Building? I think it would be nice to try and continue to have an office mix on Washington but I wouldn't doubt if this one goes residential as well.
photo from Built St. Louis
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog ... r-cpi.html (sub article)
if this gets done that will be a great step for reclaiming western WashAve.
Hopefully the Jefferson Arms is Ghost Busted. And Chemical and LaSalle.
Really interesting to revisit the biz-journal article at the top of the thread now... five years ago they counted 12 ghost buildings in the CBD with approximately 2M vacant square feet. Today, I count 9 ghost buildings by their criteria with almost 3M square feet.
Ghost Busted since 2011:
GenAmerica
Arcade-Wright
Cupples 9
WS Hotel
Cupples 7 (unfortunately by demo)
Left to Ghost Bust from list of original 12:
Chemical*
LaSalle*
Jefferson Arms*
Mercantile
505 Washington
917 Locust
921 Locust
(* denotes redevelopment plan at least in early stages)
Buildings that became ghosts since 2011:
Railway Exchange
Millennium/Stouffer Hotel
Union Trust essentially is a ghost as well at the moment, but it has active plans for the Hotel St. Louis.
Really interesting to revisit the biz-journal article at the top of the thread now... five years ago they counted 12 ghost buildings in the CBD with approximately 2M vacant square feet. Today, I count 9 ghost buildings by their criteria with almost 3M square feet.
Ghost Busted since 2011:
GenAmerica
Arcade-Wright
Cupples 9
WS Hotel
Cupples 7 (unfortunately by demo)
Left to Ghost Bust from list of original 12:
Chemical*
LaSalle*
Jefferson Arms*
Mercantile
505 Washington
917 Locust
921 Locust
(* denotes redevelopment plan at least in early stages)
Buildings that became ghosts since 2011:
Railway Exchange
Millennium/Stouffer Hotel
Union Trust essentially is a ghost as well at the moment, but it has active plans for the Hotel St. Louis.
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How would you ghost bust the Mercantile? The original facade is surely shaved off under that ugly wrapper.
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^ I've heard that is the case as well.... I guess the question is how marketable the building is with current facade or whether a re-skinning of the re-skinning is needed.
However, this was once one of the most important rooms in town. It'd be nice to get it back.
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It boggles the mind that stuff like that was allowed to happen. The building sticks out to me when I walk by it because it's just so bland.CarexCurator wrote:It's too sad.
Look what they did to the original windows!
While the loss of the original facade is unfortunate, and if it can't be restored, I think with some imagination and some cool signage this building could have new life as a mid century gem.
It still happens today. Wash U is getting ready to cover a classic example of Brutalist Architecture with a trendy ornamental facade. It's amazing how quickly tastes change, only to come back in favor years later.DowntownNick wrote: It boggles the mind that stuff like that was allowed to happen.