100%addxb2 wrote: ↑Aug 23, 2025Yes, but this is obviously a unique opportunity. Flat and clean land immediately adjacent to second or third largest node of public transportation in the region. The Foundry and "Prospect Yards" are finally radiating some development heat. The Armory is still a huge asset that is saved. The Brickline Greenway will connect them all. Riverfront industrial, go for it! Not here.framer wrote: ↑Aug 23, 2025I'm with dredger on this. The City has so much vacant land, there's no reason some of it can't be used for data centers (which are, after all, critical infrastructure for the immediate future).
I should clarify that I'd like to see data centers go on some of our obsolete industrial land. Simply shutting the door to them completely is extremely shortsighted.
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I like this. A reasonable 1 yr. moratorium like St. Chuck's just did. In STL City's case to allow for study of best practices for data centers in urban areas and impacts on water/energy usage, etc.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Aug 15, 2025What alderperson is going to have the courage to write up a bill instituting a moratorium on data center construction in the city limits?'m
This passed. Pretty crazy how this turned into being the first city in the nation with a flat out ban.
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... 11f6c2d29d
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... 11f6c2d29d
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They aren’t asking to go to vacant, polluted industrial land! They want to be in the central corridor, on tax abated land, next you our power substations!
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Outside of the initial construction phase do data centers actually have ANY net benefit to the city/region that they are located in? Even if it's located on the North Riverfront or a farm field, they suck up enormous amounts of electricity. To the point that it often increases rates and destabilizes the grid during peak hours.
How are we supposed to get Missouri off of it's coal and fossil fuel addiction when we allow the construction of these power suck data centers?
I am genuinely curious, does it generate any kind of tax revenue outside of property tax and the income tax of the maybe 10 employees? Would having data centers for ai actually incentivize these companies to move here? They seem to just be building them literally anywhere that will allow them so I doubt that considering these companies are still extremely focused in a few key cities with ai talent.
The only winners from these data centers in my opinion are the ai companies and Ameren. The average resident loses.
How are we supposed to get Missouri off of it's coal and fossil fuel addiction when we allow the construction of these power suck data centers?
I am genuinely curious, does it generate any kind of tax revenue outside of property tax and the income tax of the maybe 10 employees? Would having data centers for ai actually incentivize these companies to move here? They seem to just be building them literally anywhere that will allow them so I doubt that considering these companies are still extremely focused in a few key cities with ai talent.
The only winners from these data centers in my opinion are the ai companies and Ameren. The average resident loses.
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It's estimated that data centers cost $600-$1,000/sq.ft. to develop. If it's valued like that, and the City can generate solid tax revenues from it, then I'm all in favor of them being built in certain parts of the City - if and only if they're built on a strategic land-use basis. I bet there are better uses for the Armory than to house stacks of racks. Hell, even the old Famous-Barr warehouse to its immediate west would be an exceedingly better spot for such a facility. Damn near ideal, and in line for tax credits, too. The City should also, and immediately, make sure to bar diesel turbines from powering these things, as they pollute and are apparently as noisy as it gets.
Best place in the Metro Area to build data centers: the Near East Side, near the logistics centers dotting up around 255 and 270, and along the railroad tracks. You know, areas where they're not going to bother a whole lot of proximate residential. The Near East Side could sure use the boost in revenues and productive usage.
Data centers can generate positive revenues for tax coffers while bringing new high-value tech assets to the region, increasing property values, and our region's competitive advantages for new employment. The fact that the Metro East isn't fighting tooth and nail to get these here is astounding.
Best place in the Metro Area to build data centers: the Near East Side, near the logistics centers dotting up around 255 and 270, and along the railroad tracks. You know, areas where they're not going to bother a whole lot of proximate residential. The Near East Side could sure use the boost in revenues and productive usage.
Data centers can generate positive revenues for tax coffers while bringing new high-value tech assets to the region, increasing property values, and our region's competitive advantages for new employment. The fact that the Metro East isn't fighting tooth and nail to get these here is astounding.
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City would get $5-10m off the bat from a permit fee from any data center. Property taxes going forward probably wouldnt be huge but it would be sizable
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All the vacant buildings in the metro east and Kosciusko would just be much better places. All the empty suburban office buildings as well. This building is now in great shape and in a location that only will improve over the next 10 years. Do not let this happen and ruin progress made in this corridor
Property taxes are why I'm okay with building the data centers, just not in locations that can be better utilized.
Stl PR - Documents link secretive St. Charles data center to Google
https://www.stlpr.org/economy-business/ ... ter-google
https://www.stlpr.org/economy-business/ ... ter-google
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Is the increased property tax income (I am skeptical that it is a transformative amount) really worth the cumulative increase in electrical demand? Demand that we let Ameren increase rates on all customers to cover.
Ameren wants to charge us billions to build more nuclear power capacity, something that on the surface I would be all for, but how much of that new green energy will be going to data centers by the time it opens? I suspect a significant amount if not all.
These energy sinks will make the transformation away from fossil fuel energy generation exponentially more difficult because the demand is theoretically infinite. All so that AI can be shoehorned into everything whether we want it or not. I can't search for something on INSTAGRAM these days without an automatic AI query being added on. Such a waste.
Ameren wants to charge us billions to build more nuclear power capacity, something that on the surface I would be all for, but how much of that new green energy will be going to data centers by the time it opens? I suspect a significant amount if not all.
These energy sinks will make the transformation away from fossil fuel energy generation exponentially more difficult because the demand is theoretically infinite. All so that AI can be shoehorned into everything whether we want it or not. I can't search for something on INSTAGRAM these days without an automatic AI query being added on. Such a waste.
The Planning commission is looking at data centers
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... l-Item.pdf
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... l-Item.pdf
Maybe, I am just getting older, but this is frustrating to me. There is no longer a regular search function on many major websites, just auto AI slop.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025All so that AI can be shoehorned into everything whether we want it or not. I can't search for something on INSTAGRAM these days without an automatic AI query being added on. Such a waste.
Stl PR - St. Louis considers data center ban, following St. Charles' lead
https://www.stlpr.org/economy-business/ ... st-charles
https://www.stlpr.org/economy-business/ ... st-charles
This is the correct move. We need to properly regulate these things before we start allowing them to be built in places that we may not stregically want them.
I'm okay with a "temporary" ban, but i worry that the City will shut itself out of what could become a very lucrative future.
Again, we have tons of available space and plentiful water resources. Let's take advantage of the opportunity, rather than making shortsighted, knee-jerk decisions.
Again, we have tons of available space and plentiful water resources. Let's take advantage of the opportunity, rather than making shortsighted, knee-jerk decisions.
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Im concerned about the temporary ban. This just makes it way harder to actually allow them when the tie comes. Raise the property tax rate, and let them build in industrial zonesframer wrote: ↑Sep 10, 2025I'm okay with a "temporary" ban, but i worry that the City will shut itself out of what could become a very lucrative future.
Again, we have tons of available space and plentiful water resources. Let's take advantage of the opportunity, rather than making shortsighted, knee-jerk decisions.
While obviously the Mississippi is a huge water source, data centers need clean drinking water and I feel not informed enough to say we have tons of that to pump through these places. Like I wouldn't want to get to a point where MSD needed to expand its water treatment or increase the rates of one of our few affordable utilities.
I also echo Harv's concern about these spiking electricity demand so high as to make transitioning from fossil fuels harder as the world burns.
I also echo Harv's concern about these spiking electricity demand so high as to make transitioning from fossil fuels harder as the world burns.
MSD affordable? LOL. Does the wastewater from data enters need treatment? I guess if it ends up with the rest of the wastewater it would be treated anyways.
The water department has a ton of extra capacity. Remember we're bailing out St. Charles right now.
The water department has a ton of extra capacity. Remember we're bailing out St. Charles right now.
Can't directly to or the actual capacity but you would have to assume a city with a built environment that supported 800k people once upon a time that now serves 300k has infrastructure overcapacity. Not only city land rich it should be water rich.
How you leverage that over capacity is whole other discussion. I just hope the city see the opportunities.
How you leverage that over capacity is whole other discussion. I just hope the city see the opportunities.
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My chief hesitancy is reliance on diesel-powered turbines being an option to fuel them. Memphis has the new xAI mega data center, which is primarily powered by those, and it's reaping hell on their air quality. That said, if you get them built with reliable energy and minimal pollution, then I'm all for them. The Near East Side could be a great spot for them, noting the successes they've had with logistics centers where 255 meets 270.
^ You could also go all in with biodiesel considering China quit buying soybeans and St. Louis convergence of a lot of grains, corn and beans.
Then again an economic vision of what can be done for what we are all demanding in one or way another, what is the region strengths and not a mentality of what should be banned.
Then again an economic vision of what can be done for what we are all demanding in one or way another, what is the region strengths and not a mentality of what should be banned.
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Regional Strengths... Multiple research universities. Multiple F500 and F1000 companies, as well as multiple S&P 500 components. Hubs for the emerging industries of biotechnology, particularly agricultural, and geospatial sciences. Multiple financial services companies, including investment management, insurance, brokerage, and banking. Core strengths in logistics management. All of these companies & industries have volumes of data that can readily be harnessed; as well, they all have needs for enterprise AI, especially when Generative becomes Agentic.
Geographic strengths: Central location in middle of the US, increasing our catchment area. Large metro area population. Secure water resources. And especially with the Near East Side, there's multiple square miles of readily developable greenfield project sites, all with governments interested in seeking new economic development.
Disadvantage: Weather, e.g., tornadoes.
Geographic strengths: Central location in middle of the US, increasing our catchment area. Large metro area population. Secure water resources. And especially with the Near East Side, there's multiple square miles of readily developable greenfield project sites, all with governments interested in seeking new economic development.
Disadvantage: Weather, e.g., tornadoes.
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I'd only be okay with data center construction provided the builders had to fund the requisite infrastructure to supply the buildings and not put taxpayers on the hook.
Also, water might be plentiful now, but we're rapidly heading towards a world that could very well be fighting over fresh water, so a word of caution there.
Also, water might be plentiful now, but we're rapidly heading towards a world that could very well be fighting over fresh water, so a word of caution there.