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PostDec 30, 2013#2901

quincunx wrote:I'll be curious to know if this was in the Shell station parking lot.
Tef Poe/FootKlan @TefPoe

Gunshots at Delmar and Skinker tonight y'all ..dont go driving through U-City you will be flagged..10 shots atleast...someone def got hit
Not the shooters that are the fools?
Tef Poe/FootKlan @TefPoe

in other words stay in the house we all know county cops and UCPD is about to act a damn fool. City cops gonna get in the mix too

What St. Louis @wtfstlouis

@TefPoe Trying to protect is "acting a damn fool"?

Tef Poe/FootKlan @TefPoe

@wtfstlouis pulling over innocent minorities that didn't do anything wrong is what I was referring to..just me casting my American opinion.
Tef Poe/FootKlan @TefPoe

it's right at the City and County divide so the City cops will prob be flagging random ppl as well..
Tef Poe and alderman Antonio French make a "fool" of themselves all the time on twitter, so I'm not surprised.

I've also been shocked about the horrific crimes in public places taking place in St. Louis lately. This Al Capone style gun em down in the middle of a busy street type violence does not sit well with me. It is almost if there is a since of lawlessness, specifically in the more urban parts of the metropolitan area. Places like New York and Los Angeles are full of criminals and deadly drug gangs, but I couldn't imagine someone unloading a pistol off in the middle of Times Square or Hollywood Blvd. This type of wild west mentality is definitely not good for the image of "urban" St. Louis.

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PostDec 30, 2013#2902

goat314 wrote:
quincunx wrote:I'll be curious to know if this was in the Shell station parking lot.
Tef Poe/FootKlan @TefPoe

Gunshots at Delmar and Skinker tonight y'all ..dont go driving through U-City you will be flagged..10 shots atleast...someone def got hit
Not the shooters that are the fools?
Tef Poe/FootKlan @TefPoe

in other words stay in the house we all know county cops and UCPD is about to act a damn fool. City cops gonna get in the mix too

What St. Louis @wtfstlouis

@TefPoe Trying to protect is "acting a damn fool"?

Tef Poe/FootKlan @TefPoe

@wtfstlouis pulling over innocent minorities that didn't do anything wrong is what I was referring to..just me casting my American opinion.
Tef Poe/FootKlan @TefPoe

it's right at the City and County divide so the City cops will prob be flagging random ppl as well..
Tef Poe and alderman Antonio French make a "fool" of themselves all the time on twitter, so I'm not surprised.

I've also been shocked about the horrific crimes in public places taking place in St. Louis lately. This Al Capone style gun em down in the middle of a busy street type violence does not sit well with me. It is almost if there is a since of lawlessness, specifically in the more urban parts of the metropolitan area. Places like New York and Los Angeles are full of criminals and deadly drug gangs, but I couldn't imagine someone unloading a pistol off in the middle of Times Square or Hollywood Blvd. This type of wild west mentality is definitely not good for the image of "urban" St. Louis.
With Wellston to the north and north city to the northeast you would figure the Loop would filled with crime I fell this was a one time event and the incident actually started in north city or Wellston and just played out in the loop. The city does needs more cops probably around 200 more. What can be a good why to raise money for a STLPD expansion?

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PostDec 30, 2013#2903

Have some of the county and muni cops who don't have much to do help out in the city. But that would require a regional view and a sense of ownership beyond jurisdiction borderlines.

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PostDec 30, 2013#2904

goat314 wrote: Places like New York and Los Angeles are full of criminals and deadly drug gangs, but I couldn't imagine someone unloading a pistol off in the middle of Times Square or Hollywood Blvd. This type of wild west mentality is definitely not good for the image of "urban" St. Louis.
I agree it is not good for our image but it definitely does happen elsewhere.... there have been a couple of high profile cases relatively recently where innocent bystanders were shot by NYPD in shoot outs with criminals.

Check out this recent case for example....
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/nyreg ... .html?_r=0
And before that 9 were shot by NYPD by Empire State Building.

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PostDec 30, 2013#2905

Was a block away from this last night, heading into El Monstero at the Pageant. Round of rapid shots firing off, followed by the echoing thud of the cars crashing. STL's Finest were there within minutes blocking off the street and doing their work.

Reactions were varied at the Pageant. Some patrons were calling their spouses to let them know they were OK and not to worry. Others just shrugged their shoulders, like this is commonplace in the City limits. Some thought it odd that it took place this far south in the City. No panics, no freak-outs (other than those common at such concerts), everyone kept their heads, and the show started on time and played late. Same time, many people didn't recognize the gunfire for what it was.


Also, I would've sworn I heard shots in Soulard before the show, maybe around 545.

Yeah... People are definitely trigger-happy this last month.

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PostDec 30, 2013#2906

gone corporate wrote:Yeah... People are definitely trigger-happy this last month.
Was walking from our car to the South Grand City Diner around 6pm Saturday night for dinner when we heard four gunshots off in the distance. (Most likely to the south which is no surprise.) Sadly had to spend the next 15 minutes calming my wife and son down. They weren't freaking out but were pretty concerned.

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PostDec 30, 2013#2907

Red light camera video



KMOX - Red Light Camera Shows Loop Shooting, Suspects Fleeing
Police say he left illegal narcotics and a pistol in that car and then stole another vehicle.
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/12/30/ ... s-fleeing/

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PostDec 30, 2013#2908

This recent string of shootings has left me extremely discouraged. Especially since they have affected two of my favorite public areas, the Delmar loop and Wash ave. I constantly beat the drum for the city and love living in it, but I'm growing weary of defending it to family, friends, and co-workers. I am also starting to 2nd guess the multiple real estate investments I have in it. Somebody please talk me off the ledge.

It's a trivial thing, but I'd really like to hear Slay and Dotson publicly denounce illegal guns and those committing these violent crimes. I realize that it would be nothing more than grandstanding, but I feel like we all need it at this point. If they don't get a handle on these crimes, all the hard work and investment in the city will be for nothing.

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PostDec 31, 2013#2909

Disturbing. Speechless. Don't know what to say or think about this.

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PostDec 31, 2013#2910

robertn42 wrote:This recent string of shootings has left me extremely discouraged. Especially since they have affected two of my favorite public areas, the Delmar loop and Wash ave. I constantly beat the drum for the city and love living in it, but I'm growing weary of defending it to family, friends, and co-workers. I am also starting to 2nd guess the multiple real estate investments I have in it. Somebody please talk me off the ledge.

It's a trivial thing, but I'd really like to hear Slay and Dotson publicly denounce illegal guns and those committing these violent crimes. I realize that it would be nothing more than grandstanding, but I feel like we all need it at this point. If they don't get a handle on these crimes, all the hard work and investment in the city will be for nothing.
I would not let the a**holes committing all the crime make you want to move out of the city. The two shootings on wash ave have something to do with the bar the ultra city lounge. The bar does draw a bad crowd and the city should take away there Liquor License. Also we still have to remember downtown is still an up and coming neighborhood and still has some issues to work out. Yes it was a bad week in shootings but there are also weeks were there are hardly any or no shootings. We should not run to Cul-de-sac when the going get a little tough. We should stay and fight to make the city a better place. When I am down on the news I like to remember how the city was 10 or 15 years when places like Shaw and Forest park southeast. were places you would not want to get lost in or go after dark. Yes it was a bad week but don't let one week throw out 15 years of hark work and progress.

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PostDec 31, 2013#2911

^ What he said.

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PostDec 31, 2013#2912

^^ Stick in there. Random crime will happen and it does happen.

I went to college in the center of a city that also topped the "most dangerous" lists for many years. In fact, there was a gas station across the street from my dorm where there were shootings nearly every single weekend. We almost got to the point where we'd bust out the popcorn and wait to watch the shootings on the weekends because it was so predictable. I went back recently and the station has been demolished and that corner is now yuppie central with new construction and businesses. There is a tidal wave of change that is transforming cities across the country and it will come to St. Louis soon. Its just been a little slower here because we are not unified as a region and not used to showing pride in this gem of a city.

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PostDec 31, 2013#2913

And another...
A teenager was arrested after he allegedly shot a 17-year-old man in downtown St. Louis Tuesday morning. ...the shooting happened near the Crowne Plaza at 4th and Pine around 12 a.m.
Officers responded to the scene shortly after shots were fired and found the victim with gunshot wounds to the shoulder and the suspect running away.
http://www.kmov.com/news/crime/Police-1 ... 19291.html

I live less than half a block away and can see the Crowne Plaza's entrance from a bedroom window. I was going to bed right about this time and heard three distinct pops and said to myself "Hmmm, that sounded like gunshots".

Sh*ts getting old.

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PostDec 31, 2013#2914

Living in the city is like being mired in an unhealthy relationship, its all highs and lows. You can't just sit back and enjoy a glass of wine on a Friday. You're either having the best sex of your life or you're at each others throats.

I'm definitely not going anywhere. I've invested too much time (6 years DT and now 2 in South City), money (3 properties) and people (daughters, 1 month and 2 years). The reality is I love the city, I rarely if ever feel unsafe, and I am very excited to raise my girls here. It's just hard not to let the news beat you down at times. Especially when it comes in a tidal wave like this.

I am addicted to development news in the city because I desperately want to see progress. However, equally if not more important is what can we do to help our underprivileged youth. What is being done and what can be done to get to them before the criminals do? Obviously the scope of that question is too generic, but until our leaders both on a political and community level have a plan in place to stop the vicious cycle within these families they will not have a chance. There are a lot of intellectual, proactive thinkers on this board. Is there a thread about this topic? If not I think there should be.

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PostDec 31, 2013#2915

^
Seems we have a lot in common. Me: Two years in Shaw and more recently nearly six years downtown. I love the city too. I mean it's in my blood - don't know how to better describe it in words. I'm constantly following St. Louis news, blogs, etc - anything and everything for years now and root for the city passionately.

You mention exactly what I think every time one of these stories comes up: By and large a person raised in a healthy environment, one with opportunities, support and healthy role models that genuinely care about them - one that does not have the combined stresses of poverty, food insecurity and/or lack of caring and nurturing and even threats to their physical safety - does not resort to violence and criminal behavior. Compare any "disadvantaged" area in STL with an "advantaged" area. Stark differences. Its like this institutionalized dysfunction in this city. Leaders simply pay it lip service and nothing more. People not directly affected see these news stories and say "that's awful" and then go back to their first world problems.

I know there are no easy answers but in all my time of following this city's progress I don't see anything real being done by the leaders to change the disparity. It's dysfunctional. To speak to downtown specifically, what needs to be done is the big economic leaders in the STL region should realize what a statement a healthy downtown makes economically *for the region* and put some real action into that. Realize that the whole is worth more than the sum of the parts ever could be. I could be wrong but I don't think downtown will evolve to the next step until this happens. ...End of rant.

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PostDec 31, 2013#2916

And another homicide last night with a home invasion in Wells-Goodfellow.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 30331.html

Unfortunately the second half of the year has been particularly bloody... we were on pace to have 99 homicides for 2013 with the first half's rate but now we're at 120. Or looking at it another way, we'd be at around 140 if the rate for the second half were for the whole year.

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PostDec 31, 2013#2917

120? after two years of 112? I'm afraid we may be labeled most dangerous city again.

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PostDec 31, 2013#2918

For the year, our homicide rate increased from 35.5 to 37.7. I don't mean to denigrate the grief, anger and frustration that comes with high-profile crime, but that ranks 2013 as the 6th worst of the last 10 years, and the 13th worst of the last 20 years. Crime rates are down 50% from 20 years ago, and 2013 is likely to have the lowest crime rate in 47 years (not crime total, but crime rate, which takes into account population losses). With the reorganization of the SLMPD and the resultant expanded flexibility in the use of hot spot tactics, further declines in crime are likely going forward.

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PostDec 31, 2013#2919

robertn42 wrote:Living in the city is like being mired in an unhealthy relationship, its all highs and lows. You can't just sit back and enjoy a glass of wine on a Friday. You're either having the best sex of your life or you're at each others throats.

I'm definitely not going anywhere. I've invested too much time (6 years DT and now 2 in South City), money (3 properties) and people (daughters, 1 month and 2 years). The reality is I love the city, I rarely if ever feel unsafe, and I am very excited to raise my girls here. It's just hard not to let the news beat you down at times. Especially when it comes in a tidal wave like this.

I am addicted to development news in the city because I desperately want to see progress. However, equally if not more important is what can we do to help our underprivileged youth. What is being done and what can be done to get to them before the criminals do? Obviously the scope of that question is too generic, but until our leaders both on a political and community level have a plan in place to stop the vicious cycle within these families they will not have a chance. There are a lot of intellectual, proactive thinkers on this board. Is there a thread about this topic? If not I think there should be.[/quot

All the shootings will not make me give up on a great city but I feel the city needs more cops. But now I will be blunt there are sadly two St. Louises a growing more a affluent white st Louis and a poor and struggling black st Louis. There a 3 ways to get rid of crime in the city.
1 expand the police force and hire more cops to police the city,
2 gentrify the city so the poor can't afford to live here and reduce section 8 and hud housing in the city.
3 create programs that help the and reform the poor and find them jobs.
I think we should do a little of all 3

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PostDec 31, 2013#2920

terence d wrote:^
Seems we have a lot in common. Me: Two years in Shaw and more recently nearly six years downtown. I love the city too. I mean it's in my blood - don't know how to better describe it in words. I'm constantly following St. Louis news, blogs, etc - anything and everything for years now and root for the city passionately.

You mention exactly what I think every time one of these stories comes up: By and large a person raised in a healthy environment, one with opportunities, support and healthy role models that genuinely care about them - one that does not have the combined stresses of poverty, food insecurity and/or lack of caring and nurturing and even threats to their physical safety - does not resort to violence and criminal behavior. Compare any "disadvantaged" area in STL with an "advantaged" area. Stark differences. Its like this institutionalized dysfunction in this city. Leaders simply pay it lip service and nothing more. People not directly affected see these news stories and say "that's awful" and then go back to their first world problems.

I know there are no easy answers but in all my time of following this city's progress I don't see anything real being done by the leaders to change the disparity. It's dysfunctional. To speak to downtown specifically, what needs to be done is the big economic leaders in the STL region should realize what a statement a healthy downtown makes economically *for the region* and put some real action into that. Realize that the whole is worth more than the sum of the parts ever could be. I could be wrong but I don't think downtown will evolve to the next step until this happens. ...End of rant.
^I love your commentary.

One thing I will add is that there are a lot - A LOT - of local programs that seek to empower and uplift those who are seemingly in a perpetual state of poverty and dysfunction. St. Louis often leads the country in volunteering and charitable donations. Unfortunately, however, the need is so great in the region that the numerous programs - many that are nationally recognized - do not seem to be able to keep up with the social and economic challenges of St. Louis - not just in the city - but the region.

On a different note, there is no reason an unsupervised 17-year should be downtown at 12am. When I was 17, I had to be in the house at 8pm or earlier on school nights. His ass should have been at home. Perhaps he fired in self-defense, but still, where were the police? If you are a minor who is downtown or anywhere in the city past curfew and unsupervised - off to juvenile detention or the city jail you go - until your legal representative picks you up. If you have a gun and shoots someone - jail and no bail. Get Jennifer Joyce on them.

Although there are some serious social and economic barriers in St. Louis, I am sick of the excuses.

I am in favor of the following:

1. A no quotas "Stop and Frisk" policy within the WHOLE city - especially downtown - and especially high crime areas. The S&F policy should seek the input of the ACLU. The program would have "built in" protections to prevent police abuses and would include regular evaluations by the ACLU to determine effectiveness and potential legal ramifications. Something has to be done about all of the guns on the streets of St. Louis.

2. There should be a downtown police force or designated unit with no less than 30 officers - 10 or more per shift. Despite the fact shootings happen in every major city downtown, idiots, lowlifes and gang-bangers are going to ruin downtown STL's progress. The minute law enforcement shows any withdrawn or light presence, the negative elements will rear their ugly heads. Law enforcement must demonstrate a heavy presence at all times - no excuses. Swarm the crooks and troublemakers like bees. Stop putting out fires. Prevent them.

3. Downtown and The Loop need more cameras. More is never enough. The cameras should be pointed EVERYWHERE. Take a cue from Antonio French's Ward and the CWE.

4. Gang and drug abatement programs. Offenders participate in MANDATED conflict resolution intervention. Program partners with potential employers willing to hire them and schools willing to train them for trades and jobs. St. Louis Community College, if not already doing so, should do this..........after all it is a "community college".

5. If all else fails, call in the Missouri National Guard. Yeah, it would be tantamount to giving up. Yeah, it wouldn't help an already negative image of St. Louis, but it could go a long way to clean up the criminal element.

PostDec 31, 2013#2921

What I will add is that poverty and dysfunction doesn't give people the right to kill. Poverty and dysfunction doesn't give people the right to pillage the streets. EVERYONE has the right to walk down the street and feel reasonably safe.

Why in the hell should people have to dodge bullets because of stupid ass gang-bangers (alas The Loop and downtown)? They don't have the right to shoot up the city. The coddling politicians and community leaders need to get angry. They aren't. Many are excuse makers and are afraid of losing constituents by cracking down. What have they done to bring quality jobs to their wards?

I'm sorry................While there is historic institutional dysfunction and racism in St. Louis, which are a part of the overall problem, sometimes people must pull themselves up by the holes in the bottom in their own boots if they have no bootstraps. If no one gives you a job, create your own legal job. Cut grass, make desserts, open a restaurant, drive a cab, go into the military. Many people do.

Every gang-banger in the City of St. Louis and the St. Louis region has the capacity to be better than they are if they only tried HARDER.

I know of guys that have done so.

Also, I say close the liquor stores on every damn corner - they don't usually employ people from the neighborhood anyway. Go to any given liquor store in the city. The owners are usually behind bullet-proof glass. Then, at the end of the day, they take the money and run back to the suburbs. To get a liquor permit, owners should be required to hire at least 2 people from the neighborhood.

PostDec 31, 2013#2922

Also, this may seem quirky, but how about using "reverse psychology" on the region's inhabitants.

I've heard local and national rappers from St. Louis literally (and "litterally") brag about St. Louis' "most dangerous" status. I think some people in some corners of St. Louis tend to act accordingly.

Why are people so eager to embrace "the most dangerous city" title, yet make fun of or discount "the happiest city" title just because it used different metrics?

I wonder if local media - TV commercials, news stations, newspapers, billboards, etc. - promoted the "happiest city" title all over the region to what extent could that help to change the region's psyche?


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PostDec 31, 2013#2923

meanwhile…

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/3 ... lp00000009
New York City had fewer murders in 2013 than any year in its recorded history, according to a statement from the mayor's office.

As of Sunday, December 29, 333 people were murdered in New York City, a 20 percent drop from last year's record low of 417 murders.
ugh.

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PostDec 31, 2013#2924

^ And Chicago had the lowest number of murders since 1965.

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PostDec 31, 2013#2925

Chicago: ‘Progress, not success’: Fewest murders since 1965

Also, KC's urban count increased by five (98 to 103), while it looks like St. Louis' will increase by eight (112 to 120). And the night is still young.

Sad. Missouri has to do better.

Hopefully other crime categories dropped in St. Louis.

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