Clemens Mansion

bsh · PostMay 30, 2009#262009-05-30T00:14+00:00

innov8ion wrote:Heh, w.t.f. are you talking about? It sounds like you don't want the property improved. Whereas citizens in other areas fight for public subsidy, you fight to keep it out. Really smart, dude!

Ah yes, the typical response from you. Did you not read where I stand to gain, through no work of my own, if he is successful? I don't want this to fail in any way, shape, or form. But at the same time I have to look at this realistically and see if it's at all feasible.

I also wonder what his original intent was, because up until 6 months ago, federal stimulus money wasn't on the table (nor did it exist), so where did he expect to find 6 billions dollars? Also, where are his wealthy constituents putting up their own money in support of him?

My point was, if he's on the edge financially, it's going to take a miracle to get this going because the money he is hoping for isn't going to come as quickly as he is saying it will. I don't want this to come to a halt after all he's done so far.

realclear · PostMay 30, 2009#272009-05-30T04:07+00:00

BSH wrote:
UrbanPioneer wrote:

?

Several reasons.

1. Stock market has lost ~40% of it's value in the last year. So unless McKee pulled out last year or shorted everything, he's lost a ton of money.

2. Any real estate he had is worth substantially less.

3. Banks aren't lending to anything but low risk anymore (harder for him to float or refinance his outstanding debts) and they are cutting back on available credit, especially for land developments.

4. His sudden need for the money to start flowing almost immediately (of which the local, state, and fed aren't good at)

5. His need for federal funds to pull off even this restoration.

1 and 2 above show me he has substantially less assets than he had when he started this acquisition process.

3 tells me there is a good chance banks won't loan to him because of 1 and 2.

4 tells me he needs to get the ball rolling very quickly because he's over leveraged. If he wasn't why would he be worried about sitting on this project indefinitely? All the properties cost him is annual taxes and any fines his company has to pay for upkeep.

5 tells me he doesn't have the cash or credit available to fund a 2 million dollar restoration, which in the scope of the overall project, he should.

There is a common occurrence with wealthy individuals. They got rich by using other people's money. There isn't anything wrong with that, but the risk is high in an economy like this, especially when related to real estate, and that is where the majority of his wealth came from.

If I am wrong about this, private banks (local banks would be an even bigger positive) will be joining him, but so far it doesn't look like that is the case.

This analysis is flawed for many reasons.

1) Do you know how much he actually had in the stock market? With a man of his wealth and sophistication, I am sure he just didn't let all his wealth ride on a s&p tracking mutual fund.

2) His real estate may be worth (space) less, but that is only if he intends to sell it very soon or use it as collateral for a loan. If he is still earning rents on his commercial property, then it doesn't matter what it is worth right now if he has no plans to sell it. As he said in his speech at the church, he doesn't like to develop and sell. He builds and holds onto the property.

3) Although banks aren't lending to joe shmoe, I bet he can find quite a few banks in town that are willing to lend to a guy who put $46 million of his own money in a project.

4) The only "sudden need" I see has come from external forces: tons of stimulus dollars are up for grabs and many citizens have grown very impatient with the dilapidation of these homes.

5) Why on earth would he ever use his own money when he could get the taxpayers to do it for him? I don't think his reliance on federal dollars show his weak financial state at all. In fact, I think it is exactly the opposite. He is willing to sit on these properties and eat the maintenance costs and taxes until he can get all of his entitlement ducks in a row.

Of course, I have no idea what his financial status is either. He may be one step away from bankruptcy (but I doubt it). My point is that there is ample room for disagreement with your reasoning.

the count · PostMay 30, 2009#282009-05-30T14:45+00:00

I guess at this point all we can do is speculate.

ecoabsence · PostMay 30, 2009#292009-05-30T17:56+00:00

One thing that is clear is that most of the cast iron is still on the building, not removed for "safekeeping." Not sure what to make of that comment.

Also, the chapel is not beyond repair, and many architects who have examined it have concluded that the collapse was local rather than systemic.

However, the article shows that McKee at least knows that he has to take the Clemens House seriously. If that leads to action, all the better.

innov8ion · PostMay 30, 2009#302009-05-30T18:03+00:00

BSH wrote:Ah yes, the typical response from you. Did you not read where I stand to gain, through no work of my own, if he is successful? I don't want this to fail in any way, shape, or form. But at the same time I have to look at this realistically and see if it's at all feasible.

My point was, if he's on the edge financially, it's going to take a miracle to get this going because the money he is hoping for isn't going to come as quickly as he is saying it will. I don't want this to come to a halt after all he's done so far.

You speculate on uninformed speculations.

BSH wrote:I also wonder what his original intent was, because up until 6 months ago, federal stimulus money wasn't on the table (nor did it exist), so where did he expect to find 6 billions dollars?

When you create a vision, you don't start small. You reach for the sky and scale back if necessary. Keep in mind it's a 15 year plan.

BSH wrote:Also, where are his wealthy constituents putting up their own money in support of him?

What makes you think that he doesn't have investors? This project will take both public and private investment to succeed. McKee is a leader, not an island in and of himself.

bsh · PostMay 30, 2009#312009-05-30T20:59+00:00

innov8ion wrote:
You speculate on uninformed speculations.

Yes, I know that. Notice I said "feeling" not fact. This is the same feeling I had when I posted on this board about Wachovia over reaching them selves buying AG Edwards.... months before they had to split themselves up and sell off the pieces to remain solvent.

innov8ion wrote:
When you create a vision, you don't start small. You reach for the sky and scale back if necessary. Keep in mind it's a 15 year plan.

It's a 28 year plan. He started buying properties in 2002, and his TIF shows this not being completed until 2030. He's reached well beyond the sky.

innov8ion wrote:
What makes you think that he doesn't have investors? This project will take both public and private investment to succeed. McKee is a leader, not an island in and of himself.

You're right about that. As far as investors go, the PD said $27.6 million outside investment right now. So he's 7 years into this and has parties interested to the sum of 0.3% of the total cost.

Also, just two weeks ago this was a 6 billion dollar project, and now it's 8. Not to mention we will be seeing huge inflation over the next 10 years, so this number is likely to double.

As a side note, looking at his RPA map in the TIF, he's going to buy a huge chunk of Downtown West First (most of which is occupied commercial and not cheap) and put a road (Jefferson or larger) right up the center of it all the way to Cass (basically following 22nd, which was a planned road from long ago). Then he's off to the land surrounding the MRB. I think those two areas would be better off if left to competitive development.

stlcardsblues1989 · PostJun 02, 2009#322009-06-02T16:44+00:00

"That house needs to be saved if we can," McKee said recently after a presentation for his large-scale redevelopment project in north St. Louis. "But we can't save it overnight."

YOU'VE HAD FOUR FLIPPIN' YEARS!

Alex Ihnen · PostNov 13, 2009#332009-11-13T15:50+00:00

FINALLY! McEagle Partners With Robert Wood Realty On $13M Historic Clemens House Rehab:

http://www.stlurbanworkshop.com/2009/11 ... obert.html

McKee's partner is Robert Wood Realty. Work is reported to begin in summer 2010 and be completed the following year. Wood is no stranger to large-scale historic rehab. Previous projects include Franklin School on Delmar. The partnership is encouraging as it points to McKee's willingness to engage developers who specialize in just the type of work needed in North St. Louis.

moorlander · PostNov 13, 2009#342009-11-13T15:51+00:00

Here Here!

flopoerich · PostNov 18, 2009#352009-11-18T06:27+00:00

Article from the Beacon... Seems the plan is to rehab the mansion into apartments, similar to the Franklin School Rehab at 19th and Delmar

Clemens mansion may be reborn as apartments, community space

By Dale Singer, Beacon staff

Posted 4 p.m. Thurs., Nov. 12 - One of the oldest buildings in the area of the projected North Side redevelopment plan may become the first to be refurbished.

Plans for the Clemens mansion at 1849 Cass Avenue include 49 one-bedroom apartments renting for $400-600 and aimed at people age 55 and older, plus a community space that could work with institutions like the Missouri Botanical Garden and the History Museum.

the clemens mansion

PHOTOS BY DALE SINGER | BEACON STAFF

Pictures were taken in the spring.

Robert Wood Realty will collaborate with Paul McKee's McEagle Properties on the $13 million project, said Dan Holak of the Wood company. They have applied to the Missouri Housing Development Commission for 9 percent low-income tax credits; if the credits are approved, Holak said, the project could move forward next summer with a 12-month construction schedule. (Click here to read earlier Beacon coverage.)

A spokesman for the Housing Development Commission said its staff would make recommendations for approval of applications in February.

Holak said without the credit, the renovation would not be able to go forward.

"Any market user would not pay a rate that would allow the project to be developed without the tax credit," he said.

The Clemens property dates back to the 1850s and was believed built by a member of the family of the Missouri man who became known worldwide as Mark Twain. Over the years, it has served as a home, a convent and the headquarters for several social services organizations before falling into disrepair.

the chapel portion

In the late 1800s, the Sisters of St. Joseph, who had bought the property in 1885, added a chapel to the east of the original building.

As the property began to deteriorate, it was one of the first of many parcels bought by McKee in the footprint of his NorthSide regeneration project, which has now won initial approval from the Board of Aldermen. Earlier this year, McKee said he had removed and stored some of the ornamental iron work so it could be put back into place when the property was restored.

Holak said Wood, which renovated the Franklin School at 19th and Delmar into apartments, would do a similar transformation with the Clemens property.

"We created not only a quality living space but a community space," he said.

He said discussions with the History Museum and the Botanical Garden have centered on using the community space for events, gardens and other purposes.

"There's going to be a combination here of preservation and affordability, education and philanthropic involvement," Holak said.

"Obviously this is a building that has extreme historical significance, not only to the neighborhood but to the city as a whole. It includes a lot of the aspects that Paul has talked about in the project, like community and educational opportunities and preservation of an important architectural artifact."

Alderwoman April Ford-Griffin, D-5th Ward, welcomed news that the Clemens property could be on its way to being renovated.

"I think what they're proposing is a good development," she said. "One building is a landmark, and the other would be a museum, which is something we've been talking about. It's a great fit."

She also praised the fact that McKee is not waiting for use of the tax-increment financing that has been approved for the first two phases of the massive $8 billion redevelopment before proceeding with the Clemens work, which is outside the first two project areas.

"They're taking the initiative to find others ways to pay for it, besides the TIF," she said. "They're reaching out to the state and federal levels to get all kinds of sources that are available to get redevelopment going in the area. They can't just depend on the city's resources to make projects happen, or we'll be forever trying to get something done."

Contact Beacon staff writer Dale Singer.

debaliviere · PostFeb 12, 2010#362010-02-12T21:24+00:00

02.12.2010 1:35 pm
Clemens House funds get first OK from state agency
By Tim Logan
St. Louis Post-Dispatch
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The first project in Paul McKee’s $8.1 billion NorthSide redevelopment plan has gotten a thumbs-up for funding from a key state agency.

Staff at the Missouri Housing Development Corp. are recommending $828,000 in state and federal Low Income Housing Tax credits for a proposed rehab of the Clemens House mansion on Cass Ave. McKee’s McEagle Properties is partnering with Robert Wood Realty to turn the long-empty building in to 49 senior apartments. They also recommended $4.5 million in gap financing from leftover tax credits from previous years, and $7 million in tax-exempt bonds.

The project is expected to cost at least $13 million, and the developers had sought more funding in tax credits and less in bonds. But MHDC cited “limited resources” in deciding to give bond financing rather than the credits.

Link

quincunx · PostOct 31, 2010#372010-10-31T17:33+00:00

Good news.

In addition, he says he has financing to renovate the 140-year-old Clemens House on Cass Avenue into 49 senior living units.

STLToday article

rbeedee · PostJan 03, 2011#382011-01-03T00:40+00:00

Delayed: P-D Article

Today's deadline to obtain up to $10 million in tax-exempt state bonds to help finance a $14.3 million renovation of the Clemens House mansion in north St. Louis passed without developers finding the needed private investors for the project.

Even so, Robert Wood said he and his development partner, Paul McKee Jr., were looking at other funding and remained optimistic that work on the renovations would begin this year.

Asbestos removal and stabilization work on the vacant mansion's foundation have already started, Wood said.

landmarks · PostMay 07, 2012#392012-05-07T18:01+00:00

For everyone interested in the Clemens Mansion, Michael Allen will be giving a talk on the history of the property and the current state of affairs this Thursday, May 10, at Landmarks' offices (Architecture St. Louis) Downtown. The talk starts at 6:00, 911 Washington, suite 170. The talk is free and, as everyone who has seen Michael speak before knows, it will be great.

roger wyoming II · PostJan 18, 2016#402016-01-18T18:56+00:00

No rumblings, but plenty of grumblings

Time Has Been Hard on Clemens House. Can This Beauty Be Saved?
http://www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog ... lText=true

andrewarkills · PostJan 19, 2016#412016-01-19T00:36+00:00

I thought McKee pledged to do his level best to secure this "to the fullest extent possible"?
That guy....

Ebsy · PostJan 19, 2016#422016-01-19T08:03+00:00

I just don't understand why we can't just seize all of his holdings and reimburse him for what they are worth, ie: nothing.

jstriebel · PostJan 25, 2016#432016-01-25T03:57+00:00

A few years back when I moved to STL, I reached out to Mr. McKee as just a guy looking to get involved with just about anything to help STL progress. Pretty open ended. That didn't result in me doing anything with him, but he did return my email, give me some names, and wrote me a nice encouraging note.

I took a stab at reaching out to him again last week when I read that RFT article. I'm not surprised, but I didn't receive a response.

I just don't get it. I genuinely don't think he's a bad guy. He's old money that wants to find return on his investment, but I think a lot of his motives are good. But I can't understand letting a gem like this rot when he has the money to make it stable (if not great) without feeling the hit.

It's very disappointing.

robertn42 · PostJan 25, 2016#442016-01-25T14:21+00:00

^The crux is McKee is not old money, he's no money. Even if he had the best intentions in the world he could never get off the ground without the capital. He's been playing a shell game for decades and it caught up to him.

chaifetz10 · PostJan 25, 2016#452016-01-25T18:15+00:00

At what point to people call him out on it and we move on from his plan? It feels like the city is still playing along for now.

roger wyoming II · PostJan 25, 2016#462016-01-25T18:34+00:00

^ I think if NGA falls through he is pretty much done.... if it does happen he'll have some cache left with city leaders and a bit better financial prospects.

moorlander · PostJun 29, 2017#472017-06-29T19:26+00:00

I'm not sure how to embed a video from Facebook so here is the link.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PostJul 12, 2017#482017-07-12T11:34+00:00

GONE!

http://www.ksdk.com/mobile/article/news ... /455990594

quincunx · PostJul 12, 2017#492017-07-12T11:53+00:00

More room for bankrupting auto-oriented development!

bwcrow1s · PostJul 12, 2017#502017-07-12T12:37+00:00

Such a shame. I think we all knew this day would come though, or that's just the pessimist in me.

Clemens Mansion

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