I think I'd have called that neighborhood Dogtown more or less. Dogtownish. I've never heard of a neighborhood called "Hi-Pointe," but there are a quite a lot more officially designated neighborhoods than neighborhoods people actually talk about. And the boundaries are fuzzy. It's . . . almost the West End. I can see it. I can see your argument against, but it's more or less on the border. Sort of like the former A G Edwards campus is, by technicality, in what I would call Midtown if I had to draw a map, but I really really really want to call that Downtown. (Minus the west, which is stupid.) . . . On the other hand, I wouldn't really much distinguish between Southtown and the Bevo area. Or Carondelet and the Patch. Meh. There's official and there's what people actually say. And they're not . . . quite . . . the same. (Or consistent.)Ebsy wrote: Hi-Pointe is in its own neighborhood (the aptly named Hi-Pointe).
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The Hi Pointe neighborhood as a whole gets a bit closer, but the theater is nowhere near the CWE. It's a couple miles west, across McCausland/Skinker. It's as CWE as the Tivoli.
Some areas and designations around town have varyingly ambiguous borders - Central Corridor, South Grand, Dogtown, East Loop - but all of the neighborhood borders are clearly defined.
Some areas and designations around town have varyingly ambiguous borders - Central Corridor, South Grand, Dogtown, East Loop - but all of the neighborhood borders are clearly defined.
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I think "Dogtown" is the combination of the Hi-Pointe, Clayton-Tamm, Franz Park, and Cheltenham official neighborhoods.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Oct 20, 2017I think I'd have called that neighborhood Dogtown more or less. Dogtownish. I've never heard of a neighborhood called "Hi-Pointe," but there are a quite a lot more officially designated neighborhoods than neighborhoods people actually talk about.Ebsy wrote: Hi-Pointe is in its own neighborhood (the aptly named Hi-Pointe).
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Oh, the official neighborhoods are indeed clearly defined. On the other hand, I don't think that definition always reflects what people actually say. In many cases it's arbitrary and quite artificial. And when people speak informally, I don't think many folks reference the official boundaries of much of anything. In point of fact, the Tivoli is just about in the West End as well. Almost. But for the divorce proceedings I think it clearly would be. This is all semantics, but I'd say Downtown, Midtown, and the West End make a logical continuous unofficial stretch from the river to the city limits. And the Hi-Pointe Theatre is pretty much on the border between what I would think of as Dogtown (the area south of Forest Park) and the West End. (Which I'd unofficially understand to be everything west of Midtown but still in town.) And the "Central" part seems to me to be essentially the middle of that now given official status. Much as Grand Center Inc. officially chiseled the theatre district away from Midtown where it had long resided. Anything with the word center seems suspect, frankly.wabash wrote: ↑Oct 20, 2017The Hi Pointe neighborhood as a whole gets a bit closer, but the theater is nowhere near the CWE. It's a couple miles west, across McCausland/Skinker. It's as CWE as the Tivoli.
Some areas and designations around town have varyingly ambiguous borders - Central Corridor, South Grand, Dogtown, East Loop - but all of the neighborhood borders are clearly defined.
Anyway . . . it's semantics. But I'm going to suggest that most of us don't pore over the city's official map when discussing the place. Even those of us who grew up here. Maybe especially those of us who grew up here.
Anyway, back to Midtown with this, since it's about the Foundry, which hopefully we can all agree is in Midtown.
This is right. Source: am Irish with roots in Dogtown.ricke002 wrote: ↑Oct 20, 2017I think "Dogtown" is the combination of the Hi-Pointe, Clayton-Tamm, Franz Park, and Cheltenham official neighborhoods.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Oct 20, 2017I think I'd have called that neighborhood Dogtown more or less. Dogtownish. I've never heard of a neighborhood called "Hi-Pointe," but there are a quite a lot more officially designated neighborhoods than neighborhoods people actually talk about.Ebsy wrote: Hi-Pointe is in its own neighborhood (the aptly named Hi-Pointe).
I will say, people definitely refer to the area where the theater is as "Hi-Pointe". It's the highest point in the city and combined with the presence of the iconic theater, that makes it instantly identifiable.
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I'd guess that anyone who knows where the theatre is can use it as a landmark. But the very theatrical spelling of the mutual name suggests the neighborhood takes its name from the theatre and not the other way around. Doesn't mean it won't stick. We all know where Bevo is, and I think it's pretty clear what came first. Anyway . . . this is semantics. It doesn't really matter. My point is just that folks don't necessarily use the official designators in casual conversation, and I'd not want to beat someone up for saying something across from Forest Park and darn near on the western border of the city is in the West End. It's not what I would call it, but . . . neither is Hi-Pointe. even if it is on a hill. So is Midtown. So is . . . wait for it . . . the Hill. Heck, supposedly one of the numerous Slovak uncles had a gas station on a hill too. Though . . . it's kind of hard to tell from the hole in the ground.
Moving back to an old foundry in Midtown . . .
West End is a lot different than the CWE, which is what started this conversation in the first place. I don't think anyone familiar with the city would consider Hi-Pointe as West End, and certainly not CWE. Kind of the same way that Soulard is not "South City". Unless they live in the exurbs and they refer to the entire city as "downtown".
Ahh, pointless conversations are needed for levity sometimes!
Ahh, pointless conversations are needed for levity sometimes!
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I've spent a good amount of time in various parts of the CWE over the years, with many friends living in various parts. I honestly never made a distinction between calling it "the West End" or "the Central West End"... I think I'd usually just call it "the West End" because it was quicker to say.
The area I'm talking about is roughly bounded by Forest Park Parkway, Union, maybe Sarah to the east and McPherson to the north.
But Googling now, I see there's an actual West End neighborhood North of Delmar that is clearly a distinct neighborhood of its own completely separate from the CWE neighborhood.
Man, I can't believe I never knew that before.
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Those 2 neighborhoods can be confusing sometimes i have to check myself however yes those are 2 totally distinct neighborhoods its just not many hear about the West End Neighborhood its in the shadows of the CWE. Anyways as much as I'm very excited for this project i really don't know how well another movie theater would do in that immediate area? What demographics are they looking to draw from and I'm guessing they are depending on the college students of SLU.
I'm ok with a theater as long as it doesn't take from Downtown..
I'm ok with a theater as long as it doesn't take from Downtown..
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You know, this is starting to get just a little bit personal guys. I don't think that's quite necessary. Use is absolutely not consistent. There is no gospel. Even if the government attempts to hand one down. Go check out the old AIA guidebook. It doesn't agree with official use. And that's a very nice, solid, well researched print reference. Historic, colloquial, and official government use do not always agree. So if we can all kindly quit trying to pretend that any one of them is absolutely right and the others are wrong . . . that would be nice. And for crying out loud, let's get back to the Foundry. If we want to have a neighborhood name thread that might well be appropriate elsewhere, but not here.
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This is my guess on the current 18-30 year old demographic as well. Considering this, and that the Moolah is only ~1000 ft away, makes the idea of putting a theater in the Foundry a bit of a surprise to me. If the Moolah wasn't there it would make more sense to me.
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Moolah is a bit of an oddity, though. Moolah, Hi-Pointe, and Tivoli all show the artier side of things. Chase too, as I recall. Apart from MX, what else is nearby that shows mainstream fair? The Omnimax shows a blockbuster every now and then. But really, if you want to go see Guardians of the Galaxy or Wonder Woman or something like that, where do you go in town? I wish this were further south or north, but I'd have to guess there's room in town for a movie theatre. And Midtown is a good and relatively central place for one. There were rather a lot there at one time. For some reason. If it shows mainstream stuff I don't think there will be that much competition.
That's not really the case. The Moolah primarily shows blockbusters including Guardian's of the Galaxy, Wonder Woman, Spider Man, Blade Runner, Star Wars, Star Trek, Thor, The Fast & The Furious, etc.... GoG and WW were also showed at the Chase, which between its 5 screens usually has a mix of both blockbusters and more independent films.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Oct 23, 2017Moolah is a bit of an oddity, though. Moolah, Hi-Pointe, and Tivoli all show the artier side of things. Chase too, as I recall. Apart from MX, what else is nearby that shows mainstream fair? The Omnimax shows a blockbuster every now and then. But really, if you want to go see Guardians of the Galaxy or Wonder Woman or something like that, where do you go in town?
Hopefully there's something to the Alamo speculation and it wasn't just a graphic designer using a generic version of the Alamo signage for a completely speculative/imaginary rendering.
Change in discussion back to Foundry.
Does anyone have some doubts in back of the mind on whether the Foundry can come together? I say this as I thought it was odd that it was full steam ahead phase II change of plans but Lawrence Group stated that they were still finalizing the finance on phase I.
Does anyone have some doubts in back of the mind on whether the Foundry can come together? I say this as I thought it was odd that it was full steam ahead phase II change of plans but Lawrence Group stated that they were still finalizing the finance on phase I.
I am not all that concerned. They seem to have interest by retailers/tenants.dredger wrote: ↑Oct 23, 2017Change in discussion back to Foundry.
Does anyone have some doubts in back of the mind on whether the Foundry can come together? I say this as I thought it was odd that it was full steam ahead phase II change of plans but Lawrence Group stated that they were still finalizing the finance on phase I.
Yes, they are way too deep into the process to turn around now.jshank83 wrote: ↑Oct 23, 2017I am not all that concerned. They seem to have interest by retailers/tenants.dredger wrote: ↑Oct 23, 2017Change in discussion back to Foundry.
Does anyone have some doubts in back of the mind on whether the Foundry can come together? I say this as I thought it was odd that it was full steam ahead phase II change of plans but Lawrence Group stated that they were still finalizing the finance on phase I.
https://nextstl.com/2017/11/city-foundr ... ming-soon/
City Foundry to Break Ground, Second Phase Coming Soon
City Foundry to Break Ground, Second Phase Coming Soon
Twenty months after first floating the concept for City Foundry, Lawrence Group has completed most environmental remediation and has applied for a building permit for phase 1. Once approved, the $32 million permit dated November 1 will allow for construction of a 48,000 square foot food hall with four restaurants and 20 chef-driven quick serve food stalls. Included will be a 511 space parking structure, 133,000 square feet of retail and 124,000 s.f. of creative office space.
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Lots to love in that write-up! It says "most" of phase 1 is already leased which is great to hear. Additionally, I love the switch from the taller office building to multiple 5 story buildings at this location. Should do wonders for activating the streetscape around Vandeventer. Two of these will add impressive density and momentum to this area as a whole.
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Assuming Alamo House is indeed the movie theater that's coming in for Phase 2, is that enough of a differential from say Moolah and Chase to keep everyone in biz and happy? I do see AH being sort of a destination theater bringing people in from a wider area compared to the others in the city..
Goat, curious if one of your earlier comments still holds true or if it is one of the recent announcements as of late between Foundry phase II, Hotels and or Crescent Building?
Area has had some consistent development news over the last couple of months. Heck, between Armory, Foundry I & II and recent Crescent building announcement alone must be 500,000 sq feet of office/lab space alone that seems to be going forward. Throw in One Hundred and Hotel announcements.
Yeah.. I mean, it sounds like an expensive date. I doubt they run out any of the other theaters. I'm worried about MX still at this point though. It's always empty when I've gone.STLrainbow wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2017Assuming Alamo House is indeed the movie theater that's coming in for Phase 2, is that enough of a differential from say Moolah and Chase to keep everyone in biz and happy? I do see AH being sort of a destination theater bringing people in from a wider area compared to the others in the city..
Sorry to get off topic, but I have heard an interesting story on the MX from a former manager. He says the owner got tired of running it so he turned the management over to St. Louis Cinemas. So St. Louis Cinemas manages it but does not own it like the Moolah, Tivoli, etc. He says they do just enough to keep it afloat but not enough so it is competitive to any of their other theatres. Just reporting what I heard.bwcrow1s wrote: ↑Nov 17, 2017Yeah.. I mean, it sounds like an expensive date. I doubt they run out any of the other theaters. I'm worried about MX still at this point though. It's always empty when I've gone.STLrainbow wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2017Assuming Alamo House is indeed the movie theater that's coming in for Phase 2, is that enough of a differential from say Moolah and Chase to keep everyone in biz and happy? I do see AH being sort of a destination theater bringing people in from a wider area compared to the others in the city..
That said, I grew up in Austin and I am pumped for the Drafthouse cause they do so many offbeat, fun programs and events.
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Soulard is South CIty to me,,, A-B definitely but the Market and points north I can see as Central.stlgasm wrote: ↑Oct 21, 2017West End is a lot different than the CWE, which is what started this conversation in the first place. I don't think anyone familiar with the city would consider Hi-Pointe as West End, and certainly not CWE. Kind of the same way that Soulard is not "South City". Unless they live in the exurbs and they refer to the entire city as "downtown".
Ahh, pointless conversations are needed for levity sometimes!