Not much. It has been chronically understaffed for over a year.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Feb 27, 2025That sounds like a big problem. What is being done about it?
Couldn’t the tedious process of permitting be contracted? Couldn’t the City identify three preferred firms and have the developers pay to have the review completed? I’m sure developers would pay a reasonable price to expedite the process.
Maybe I need to be told what permitting is even doing.
Maybe I need to be told what permitting is even doing.
- 9,525
Developers already pay, for millennium project for example will pay $6,700,000 for the permit review
From 2020-2024, the City collected $51,000,000 in permit review fees
From 2020-2024, the City collected $51,000,000 in permit review fees
Does it all go to general revenue? Could they actually contract out the review?
You do not pay for permit review. You pay 1% of the project cost for the permit to be issued. Lots of permits never get picked up and therefore never paid for. Plan review holds them for 6 months before disregarding.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Feb 28, 2025Developers already pay, for millennium project for example will pay $6,700,000 for the permit review
From 2020-2024, the City collected $51,000,000 in permit review fees
- 9,525
You’re paying for the permit review when you pick it up.
It's a fee the City charges based on project expense. Not for review.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Feb 28, 2025You’re paying for the permit review when you pick it up.
- 9,525
The amount is calculated based on project expense. And it pays for the review
The fee pays for permit processing, plan review, building inspections throughout the project (mechanical, electrical, plumbing, building, etcetera), and other expenses incurred by The City for the specific project. The 1% fee more the covers those costs. Not sure where the rest of the dollars. Also, ADMIN I keep getting randomly locked out of my STLAPTS account.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Feb 28, 2025The amount is calculated based on project expense. And it pays for the review
Another slow month of building permits issued. Only $69.5M YTD.
$161M in building permit applications have been submitted YTD. We need some of these big projects to get going.
$161M in building permit applications have been submitted YTD. We need some of these big projects to get going.
- 34
That’s wild. The municipality I work at quotes a 3 week turnaround time on building permit reviews. Rarely does it take that long though. Most of the time it sits pending is waiting for the applicant to resubmit any corrections.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Feb 27, 2025New construction permits are taking 150 days to approve.
In the relatively recent past, it was about 2-3 weeks to get a permit for a straightforward new construction or substantial renovation project in the 1-4 unit range that complied with zoning regulations. Anything needing a hearing or larger scales would of course take longer, but still faster than the typical turnaround for a permit not needing anything special right now. Back before Covid changes, a lot of permits could be issued right out of the hot spot reviewer. That is back on a more limited basis, but it's often easier just to drop off the plans instead of waiting around who knows how long for hotspot when it is open. it's a staffing problem. It can be fixed, but even a full staff won't immediately make it better since it will take time for new people to get a handle on the workflow, then get through the backlog.LocalGovSTL wrote: ↑Mar 01, 2025That’s wild. The municipality I work at quotes a 3 week turnaround time on building permit reviews. Rarely does it take that long though. Most of the time it sits pending is waiting for the applicant to resubmit any corrections.
- 34
Interesting. Can’t say I know the pre pandemic norms. I only got into the planning profession early 2022.MattnSTL wrote: ↑Mar 01, 2025In the relatively recent past, it was about 2-3 weeks to get a permit for a straightforward new construction or substantial renovation project in the 1-4 unit range that complied with zoning regulations. Anything needing a hearing or larger scales would of course take longer, but still faster than the typical turnaround for a permit not needing anything special right now. Back before Covid changes, a lot of permits could be issued right out of the hot spot reviewer. That is back on a more limited basis, but it's often easier just to drop off the plans instead of waiting around who knows how long for hotspot when it is open. it's a staffing problem. It can be fixed, but even a full staff won't immediately make it better since it will take time for new people to get a handle on the workflow, then get through the backlog.LocalGovSTL wrote: ↑Mar 01, 2025That’s wild. The municipality I work at quotes a 3 week turnaround time on building permit reviews. Rarely does it take that long though. Most of the time it sits pending is waiting for the applicant to resubmit any corrections.
- 2,430
Hopefully the city will fix whatever bug it is that's failing to update permits. Still hasn't budged here after two weeks or so. https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/data/dashboa ... /years.cfmquincunx wrote: ↑Mar 01, 2025Another slow month of building permits issued. Only $69.5M YTD.
$161M in building permit applications have been submitted YTD. We need some of these big projects to get going.Looks
Another slow week, $72M YTD. This is feeling like an emergency. Is this just local or nationwide? Recession?
I looked at Chicago's YTD 2025 is $1.068B, last year was $1.247B over the same time period.
I looked at Chicago's YTD 2025 is $1.068B, last year was $1.247B over the same time period.
- 912
Are there no applications (that would be a bad sign for our growth) or are we really just processing that slow?
If it’s the former, come on, make sure someone is hired to help with this.
Either way, can’t believe there’s not more talk about this in the mayors race because that’s abysmal.
If it’s the former, come on, make sure someone is hired to help with this.
Either way, can’t believe there’s not more talk about this in the mayors race because that’s abysmal.
We literally have a president who's actively enacting policies that will make doing stuff like building things significantly more expensive, and then he's undoing those policies and then redoing them.....
Atlanta Fed had a horrible GDP growth estimate last week.
All the markets are down YTD after being up for the first couple of weeks.
Not surprised whatsoever that building permits are down.
Probably all the above right now.
The whole understaff permitting office sounds like a ready made headline "City failure leads to developer's frustration and lack of development" whether it comes out before the run off election, whether it is the biggest factor to slow place or not, or however you want to read it the whole issue as an outsider just reading the posts on this thread sounds like it a very legitimate solvable issue that the city has control over. Just surprised that hasn't made a local headline yet or maybe I missed it
Everything else is out of city control but I take leadership as executing on what you can control first and foremost.
The whole understaff permitting office sounds like a ready made headline "City failure leads to developer's frustration and lack of development" whether it comes out before the run off election, whether it is the biggest factor to slow place or not, or however you want to read it the whole issue as an outsider just reading the posts on this thread sounds like it a very legitimate solvable issue that the city has control over. Just surprised that hasn't made a local headline yet or maybe I missed it
Everything else is out of city control but I take leadership as executing on what you can control first and foremost.
- 912
Yup, even if the market is slow right now, the city can control its permit process - shorter process is cheaper for the developer and gets the ball rolling on projects that make later projects more attractive and viable when the time comes. If applications are that slow, we should be running through these to get any momentum we can. Ridiculous oversight by the city government heredredger wrote: ↑Mar 08, 2025Probably all the above right now.
The whole understaff permitting office sounds like a ready made headline "City failure leads to developer's frustration and lack of development" whether it comes out before the run off election, whether it is the biggest factor to slow place or not, or however you want to read it the whole issue as an outsider just reading the posts on this thread sounds like it a very legitimate solvable issue that the city has control over. Just surprised that hasn't made a local headline yet or maybe I missed it
Everything else is out of city control but I take leadership as executing on what you can control first and foremost.
Still very slow, $81.1M YTD. Need the $400M Glennon Hospital permit issued!
- 13
Permitting is a pain for almost any municipality that I work in. The city has always been one of the more difficult ones to deal with and has gotten much worse after they recently lost a few plan reviewers. Usually 4 weeks-ish, a recent deck rebuild is now over 100 days so I decided to reapply under the "Hot Spot" same-day review. Spent 6 hours waiting and received approval, but the reviewer didn't even look over all the sheets in the plan set and I worry that we'll have issues during inspections. We do primarily landscape work, but that includes decks, covered structure, retaining walls, outdoor kitchens, etc.
We get permits for everything that requires one, regardless of how much additional time, money and effort it takes. I support the permitting process to protect the client, construction company and city and ensure that work is done safely and competently. But, the city need to throw additional resources and reform this department, as necessary, to make this as smooth of a process as possible and encourage companies to go through the permitting process. These are private citizens and companies using their money to improve the built environment of the city.
My company has discussed no longer doing work that requires permits in the city because of the pain and frustration this has caused. I've done everything in my power to keep our company working there, but really wish there was any amount of effort to improve this system. I am a city ambassador, I promote it in all conversations I have with anyone, near and far. But I'd at least like an effort to improve the basics...
We get permits for everything that requires one, regardless of how much additional time, money and effort it takes. I support the permitting process to protect the client, construction company and city and ensure that work is done safely and competently. But, the city need to throw additional resources and reform this department, as necessary, to make this as smooth of a process as possible and encourage companies to go through the permitting process. These are private citizens and companies using their money to improve the built environment of the city.
My company has discussed no longer doing work that requires permits in the city because of the pain and frustration this has caused. I've done everything in my power to keep our company working there, but really wish there was any amount of effort to improve this system. I am a city ambassador, I promote it in all conversations I have with anyone, near and far. But I'd at least like an effort to improve the basics...
- 9,525
I've discussed contracted permit review with a few City officials and alders, should have some movement on that front
- 13
Thanks DB. I'm sure there are attempts going on behind the scenes, and I really appreciate the work the building department does, especially while under-staffed (and probably undercompensated). Such a bright future for us all in the region if we can keep making incremental improvements and work to restore and build new throughout the city.