City Building Permits

addxb2 · PostDec 10, 2021#2262021-12-10T18:26+00:00

quincunx wrote:NextSTL - Murders and Investment in St. Louis

https://nextstl.com/2021/12/murders-and ... -st-louis/

Fascinating. I’d think you’d see a clearer correlation by including all types of crime and comparing on a neighborhood or ward basis.

If there is a correlation, it becomes a chicken/egg scenario. Is crime dropping because of investment OR is investment growing because of less crime?

Some will disagree, but I believe developers are better (than the general public or media) at considering an overall sense of safety in their analysis. A single homicide near a development, while the most tragic, would not impact my decision to invest as much as 20 armed robberies.

OnTheEdge · PostDec 10, 2021#2272021-12-10T18:27+00:00

A city map showing building permit density would be interesting. My guess is you'd see an inverse proportional relationship between high murder numbers and high building permit density.

PostDec 10, 2021#2282021-12-10T18:28+00:00

Also, would 2021 be an all time high without the abnormal increase in buildings materials? Guessing "no".

quincunx · PostDec 10, 2021#2292021-12-10T18:31+00:00

OnTheEdge wrote: ↑
Dec 10, 2021
A city map showing building permit density would be interesting. My guess is you'd see an inverse proportional relationship between high murder numbers and high building permit density.

I plan to make a new one when the year is out. You can see the 2020 map in the link in the article

PostDec 10, 2021#2302021-12-10T18:32+00:00

OnTheEdge wrote: ↑
Dec 10, 2021
Also, would 2021 be an all time high without the abnormal increase in buildings materials? Guessing "no".

Lots of people bring that up. I don't know it's not like the building permit amount has to match the cost exactly. I'm sure there's been plenty issued where the cost went up due to materials and labor cost increases after. the issuance.

OnTheEdge · PostDec 10, 2021#2312021-12-10T18:54+00:00

quincunx wrote: ↑
Dec 10, 2021
OnTheEdge wrote: ↑
Dec 10, 2021
A city map showing building permit density would be interesting. My guess is you'd see an inverse proportional relationship between high murder numbers and high building permit density.
I plan to make a new one when the year is out. You can see the 2020 map in the link in the article

Thanks, missed that in the article, yeah, pretty much what I'd expect. The few larger ones far up north are interesting.

dredger · PostDec 10, 2021#2322021-12-10T19:48+00:00

OnTheEdge wrote: ↑
Dec 10, 2021
Also, would 2021 be an all time high without the abnormal increase in buildings materials? Guessing "no".

Can understand bringing some of the hype back to reality. But I would say that St. Louis needs all the hype it can get with the building permit numbers especially when you got a mayor up the road knocking your region on crime stats.

To quincunx point, since building permits are not true cost for total costs because of fees, etc. it is tough to say if you would eve get a definite answer on the yes or no. I can see building material costs being represented based on project having incentives around sale taxes, especially the bigger ones. or maybe wrong on how it is all tied together.

PostDec 11, 2021#2332021-12-11T06:33+00:00

OnTheEdge wrote: ↑
Dec 11, 2021
Seriously tho, to the first point, we can pay ourselves on the back for all the development but if the good areas get a little better while the bad areas get worse is it a wash?

Good point, to me it is not a wash because you need some significant success somewhere to stabilize and rebuild population as well as a semblence of tax base. The other hard reality is that private capital follows capital when it sees the possibility of return. In addition, if that investment is significant enough you could see pull back in incentives or redirection. Yes, in an ideal world it would be evenly distributed but we live in a messy world.

Going forward what can do to sustain but also move things forward? I think some very concentrated infrastructure investment to realign and rebuild the freeway structure for central corridor and reconnect northside/Laclede's Landing will be a plus. I don't see any freeways going away but take the rest of the parkway out of Market & Forest Park Parkway and re configuring on/off ramps would free up more developable area in an area having a good run while putting more focus on returning some grid here and there in the Central Corridor.

For the northside I think is about the push to continue to redevelop corridors but also Restore funds, infrastructure and other funds towards basic infrastructure (sidewalks, lighting and paying streets) and more importantly, affordable housing/saving & rehabbing housing stock. City is land rich so the idea you are going to have dense walkable neighborhoods everywhere in foreseeable future is unrealistic. Instead, how can you get/return/grow stable single residential home ownership in the area that offers the most opportunity? How do give an opportunity to those who might start out as renters in city become home owners in the city?

quincunx · PostJan 13, 2022#2342022-01-13T14:13+00:00

NextSTL - $1.3 Billion in Building Permits Issued in 2021

https://nextstl.com/2022/01/1-3-billion ... d-in-2021/

sc4mayor · PostJan 27, 2022#2352022-01-27T16:47+00:00

Year end numbers. Seems to be a sizable chunk of multi-family data missing for St. Louis County. #Fragmentation

quincunx · PostMar 01, 2022#2362022-03-01T19:42+00:00

$190.7M in building permits issued by the city in the first two months of 2022.

RockChalkSTL · PostMar 01, 2022#2372022-03-01T19:53+00:00

quincunx wrote: ↑
Mar 01, 2022
$190.7M in building permits issued by the city in the first two months of 2022.

This would put the city on pace for exactly $1.2 billion.

mathygreen · PostMar 30, 2022#2382022-03-30T18:02+00:00

If there is a correlation, it becomes a chicken/egg scenario. Is crime dropping because of investment OR is investment growing because of less crime.

Some will disagree, but I believe developers are better (than the general public or media) at considering an overall sense of safety in their analysis.

A single homicide near a development, while the most tragic, would not impact my decision to invest as much as 20 armed robberies.

dbInSouthCity · PostApr 04, 2022#2392022-04-04T22:43+00:00

It was up to $320,000,000 at end of March

sc4mayor · PostApr 04, 2022#2402022-04-04T22:48+00:00

symphonicpoet · PostApr 04, 2022#2412022-04-04T23:42+00:00

^That sure looks like a very nice pace indeed.

STLrainbow · PostMay 04, 2022#2422022-05-04T13:37+00:00

oh, wow, it surprisingly turns out that if you can issue a $305M building permit for a hospital tower you can get some pretty good overall numbers! At $694M, the 2022 total to date already is higher than all of 2019 (and almost as high as 2017).

dredger · PostMay 05, 2022#2432022-05-05T01:07+00:00

^ Throw in the additional permit on Convention Space build out/upgrade if they can find a contractor and that would add another $100 millionish on top of the $85 million permit to start if not mistaken. Taking the mid year total to roughly $800 million. Of course, wishful thinking maybe for the 2nd half but love to see respective permit apps for Two Cardinal Way and Koplar high rise towers, $250 million - $300 million maybe

quincunx · PostJun 05, 2022#2442022-06-05T18:29+00:00

Over $800M ytd

Capture+_2022-06-05-07-47-19~2.png (199.15KiB)

pattimagee · PostJun 20, 2022#2452022-06-20T14:52+00:00

anyone know if we're seeing a similar slow on city building permits to the rest of the country? Would be nice if we found a way to buck the trend:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanpo ... 7efc3a9ea5

Housing Market ‘In Free Fall’ As New Construction Plummets—Here’s When ‘Reset’ Could Cool Prices
The number of housing starts, or new houses on which construction started, plunged 14.4% to about 1.5 million last month from 1.8 million in April—sharply below economic projections calling for nearly 1.7 million starts, the Census Bureau reported Thursday.

Building permits also fell more than expected, coming in at less than 1.7 million in May despite expectations they would remain roughly flat from April at about 1.8 million.

In emailed comments Thursday, Pantheon Macro chief economist Ian Shepherdson attributed the sharper-than-expected decline to an “abrupt and rapid” drop in new-home sales facing builders, who “overbuilt” since early 2021 to capitalize on demand that’s now “in free fall” and must slow construction to prevent a big hit to profits.

quincunx · PostJun 20, 2022#2462022-06-20T15:07+00:00

Here's the latest from the STL HBA, up to April

https://stlhba.com/Common/Uploaded%20fi ... Report.pdf

dbInSouthCity · PostJun 21, 2022#2472022-06-21T14:56+00:00

that 2021 and 2020 STL County multi fam numbers cant be right, can they?

PeterXCV · PostJun 21, 2022#2482022-06-21T15:11+00:00

They could be wrong but I do remember last year coming across this list/slideshow of large apartment buildings under construction in the area and they were almost all in either the City or St. Charles County. Can't find it now though...

framer · PostJun 21, 2022#2492022-06-21T20:46+00:00

With the coming recession and the end of free money, this year could be the the last big blast before the end of the party.

sc4mayor · PostJun 21, 2022#2502022-06-21T22:15+00:00

^^^ They’re not. Many municipalities don’t report permit data. #Fragmentation

City Building Permits

Choose Display Mode