Millennium had just under 800 total rooms. Something like 780 rooms plus 20 suites, though I'm probably off by +/- 10 on these.
Since the Millennium closed, downtown has added Hotel Saint Louis (150-ish?), Live! by Loews at BPV (220-ish?), The Last Hotel (150-ish?) the Fairfield Inn and Suites by the MLS Stadium (140-ish?), plus the many others just outside of downtown/downtown west that are in Cortex, Midtown, CWE, etc. So whatever the City lost from Millennium's closing has been added back and then some, probably.
Real bummer in my view that this will be another hotel. I’d prefer for it to be apartments since the area around the Old Post Office has a good thing going with all that residential. Getting another 140 apartments or so would be ideal instead of hotel rooms. I can’t really think of any more hotel brands that could go downtown. You could always poach AC Hotel and Moxy from the Jefferson Arms or that new build at 11th and Olive, but I doubt it. Unless it remains Hilton and we get some of their other brands. Hyatt could be a possibility since their presence is low here.STLAPTS wrote:Its going to be a dual branded hotel.
Either way though, at least there’s hope we’ll see this old building redeveloped and the curse broken. I also hope Mroz Jewelry can remain in the building. One of the last downtown jewelry stores and with its small size, it’s a remnant of the past.
Maybe it would be one of the 'hip" Hilton brands like tru, Motto, Tempo etc.chriss752 wrote: ↑Jan 25, 2022Real bummer in my view that this will be another hotel. I’d prefer for it to be apartments since the area around the Old Post Office has a good thing going with all that residential. Getting another 140 apartments or so would be ideal instead of hotel rooms. I can’t really think of any more hotel brands that could go downtown. You could always poach AC Hotel and Moxy from the Jefferson Arms or that new build at 11th and Olive, but I doubt it. Unless it remains Hilton and we get some of their other brands. Hyatt could be a possibility since their presence is low here.STLAPTS wrote:Its going to be a dual branded hotel.
Either way though, at least there’s hope we’ll see this old building redeveloped and the curse broken. I also hope Mroz Jewelry can remain in the building. One of the last downtown jewelry stores and with its small size, it’s a remnant of the past.
I also wouldn't mind a Kimpton brand family hotel here in St. Louis.
I just wanna see this one finally renovated. Kind of agree with Chris though…would rather see the OPO area continue to fill in with residential. Schnucks is right there, there’s a small library branch in the Post Office building, Webster University’s downtown campus is there, a handful of bars and restaurants, etc. Kind of an overlooked little corner of downtown, imho.
I completely agree with the preference to residential. But if it's going to be done, I'll accept the Chemical building as a hotel and move on.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jan 25, 2022I just wanna see this one finally renovated. Kind of agree with Chris though…would rather see the OPO area continue to fill in with residential. Schnucks is right there, there’s a small library branch in the Post Office building, Webster University’s downtown campus is there, a handful of bars and restaurants, etc. Kind of an overlooked little corner of downtown, imho.
Plus I'll take more of these small/mid hotels in the hope that it spurs the removal of the hotel mega blocks (Millennium, Hilton/Mike Shannon's) to something new that are grid enhancing and pedestrian friendly.
I don't think it would be a Tru since that's going in down at Shell Building. Motto or Tempo would make sense since those are the new brands. A Kimpton Hotel is/was supposed to go in at Market and Jefferson at the Wells Fargo campus.dweebe wrote: ↑Jan 25, 2022Maybe it would be one of the 'hip" Hilton brands like tru, Motto, Tempo etc.
I also wouldn't mind a Kimpton brand family hotel here in St. Louis.
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Why haven’t previous developers been able to pull off residential (aside from COVID)? Are there layout/structural issues that make residential more difficult and hotel relatively easier for some reason?
I was told access to parking is the main issue. While other buildings in the area have agreements on spaces in nearby garages, it might be difficult to park this one but I haven't checked that. But again, I was told parking was the issue.SouthCityJR wrote: ↑Jan 25, 2022Why haven’t previous developers been able to pull off residential (aside from COVID)? Are there layout/structural issues that make residential more difficult and hotel relatively easier for some reason?
Thank you for pointing that out. For some reason I thought the Shell was going to be in the Marriott family of hotel brands.chriss752 wrote: ↑Jan 25, 2022I don't think it would be a Tru since that's going in down at Shell Building. Motto or Tempo would make sense since those are the new brands. A Kimpton Hotel is/was supposed to go in at Market and Jefferson at the Wells Fargo campus.dweebe wrote: ↑Jan 25, 2022Maybe it would be one of the 'hip" Hilton brands like tru, Motto, Tempo etc.
I also wouldn't mind a Kimpton brand family hotel here in St. Louis.
Not holding my breath for that Wells campus hotel.
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You often see a lot of Hilton Garden Inns and Homewood Suites in Co-branded projects. Could be those two.
Shame it won't add to the residential sector, but like everyone else, this one has been a long time coming. The only closed Dooley's 10 years early!
Shame it won't add to the residential sector, but like everyone else, this one has been a long time coming. The only closed Dooley's 10 years early!
Looks like Campo does some nice historic restoration work at least. But, like others have noted, I also would have preferred residential, or at least a blend. Does downtown have parking minimums for residential? With the trend of more people working remotely, at least part of the time, there's got to be more than enough parking available in the immediate vicinity. As we all know, there's no shortage of behemoth parking garages within 1-2 blocks, most of them likely underutilized.
The one wish I have for this project is that retail space is available on the 8th Street side and up to the corner. The Olive Street side can be home to things like the lobby and so on but focusing retail and restaurant space on 8th Street. This would basically create a continuous loop of retail/restaurant space around the Old Post Office. Not all of it is occupied though but I imagine if smaller retail spaces were created, you could have sidewalk cafes, small clothing stores, and so on.
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There are no city mandated parking minimums for downtown for residential (or commercial) but city mandated never the issue when there are parking minimums, it’s the lender. Sometime banks have higher parking minimums. Underwriters have a pretty good idea what % will drive or won’t drive and they use to set condition for parking requirements. They see it as a risk if you don’t have enough parking. Probably less so in places like Chicago or NYC where majority take transit
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^ but the City mandates outside of DT, doesn't it? and if it's primarily lender influence, how do places like Minneapolis eliminate parking minimums? Also, I don't think the majority take transit in Chicago. It's only about %50 in NYC, I think.
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Yes, there are parking requirements outside downtownurban_dilettante wrote: ↑Jan 25, 2022^ but the City mandates outside of DT, doesn't it? and if it's primarily lender influence, how do places like Minneapolis eliminate parking minimums? Also, I don't think the majority take transit in Chicago. It's only about %50 in NYC, I think.
Minneapolis can eliminate whatever it wants, doesn’t mean the lender will. My point being is that City minimums aren’t really the obstacle, you can easily get a variance
In my experience parking variances are not easy. Deal size and neighborhood will determine how a lender looks at parking. There is no established standard as far as I am aware.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jan 25, 2022Yes, there are parking requirements outside downtownurban_dilettante wrote: ↑Jan 25, 2022^ but the City mandates outside of DT, doesn't it? and if it's primarily lender influence, how do places like Minneapolis eliminate parking minimums? Also, I don't think the majority take transit in Chicago. It's only about %50 in NYC, I think.
Minneapolis can eliminate whatever it wants, doesn’t mean the lender will. My point being is that City minimums aren’t really the obstacle, you can easily get a variance
Several groups of people observed at/on the building over the past couple of weeks.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news/2022/03/31/hotel-historic-downtown-st-louis-developer-plans.html?cx_testId=7&cx_testVariant=cx_6&cx_artPos=3#cxrecs_s
Maybe you saw Mr. Campo himself poking around.
First couple paragraphs behind the paywall—
The architect and developer that purchased the Chemical Building in downtown St. Louis is planning to rehabilitate the structure as a hotel using historic tax credits. New Orleans-based architectural firm John T. Campo & Associates plans to renovate the 125-year-old Chemical Building, 721 Olive St., as a dual-branded hotel after paying $5 million for the structure in December. The seller was an entity affiliated with Morgan Communities, an upstate New York-based commercial real estate firm.
The 17-story building has been mostly vacant for years, but was most recently used as an office building with ground-floor retail. A series of redevelopment plans from prospective owners, including an extension of the Hotel Saint Louis next door, have fallen through in the past five years. Those also include the prior owner's plan to turn the building into micro apartments.
“Our intent is to breathe new life into this gorgeous structure and avoid demolition by neglect,” when a building deteriorates so much that it must be demolished rather than reused, firm owner and architect John Campo said at a city meeting Wednesday.
....Fingers crossed
Maybe you saw Mr. Campo himself poking around.
First couple paragraphs behind the paywall—
The architect and developer that purchased the Chemical Building in downtown St. Louis is planning to rehabilitate the structure as a hotel using historic tax credits. New Orleans-based architectural firm John T. Campo & Associates plans to renovate the 125-year-old Chemical Building, 721 Olive St., as a dual-branded hotel after paying $5 million for the structure in December. The seller was an entity affiliated with Morgan Communities, an upstate New York-based commercial real estate firm.
The 17-story building has been mostly vacant for years, but was most recently used as an office building with ground-floor retail. A series of redevelopment plans from prospective owners, including an extension of the Hotel Saint Louis next door, have fallen through in the past five years. Those also include the prior owner's plan to turn the building into micro apartments.
“Our intent is to breathe new life into this gorgeous structure and avoid demolition by neglect,” when a building deteriorates so much that it must be demolished rather than reused, firm owner and architect John Campo said at a city meeting Wednesday.
....Fingers crossed
I believe rules prohibit developers from using historic tax credits on condos (stupidly in my opinion). My understanding is the building has to be owned by the developer (or at least can't be owner-occupied) for 5 years after rehab to qualify for the credits. So apartments and hotels qualify, but condos aren't since those are sold rather than leased.chris fuller wrote: ↑Mar 31, 2022what about a combo hotel/condo setup?
A little more information on the new redevelopment plans of this...
- Residence Inn and Springhill brands.
- 240 rooms.
- Will include amenity, fitness, and community spaces (community spaces likely means a bar/restaurant in the lobby).
- Paric is the contractor.