urbanSTL

At one point recently I was dead serious about a retail venture downtown. I looked around at places and rent and decided that I just couldn't do it. I mean, how long do some of these places need to be vacant before somebody tries to swing a deal to get things moving? I wouldn't even know where to begin as an example. It's almost like you have to go into something with a "Well, I've got some money to lose" attitude.

The preference for vacancy in St Louis is mind-blowing.

I find it odd that there seems to be a number of people railing against "elitist", etc. people who want to keep all chain stores out, yet who don't seem to actually exist in this thread.

I doubt most folks who have concerns about chain stores want to see downtown chain store free anyway. Instead, there are just varying views on what mix and types of stores are best for downtown. Personally, at this point I'd rather see about anything, chain or independent, in place of all the vacant storefronts. (Even then I'd want at least a minimum standard as I'd rather keep empty storefronts over, say, payday loan places). That being said, I see nothing wrong with hoping for a really good mix of stores. For instance, while I'd certainly take a Gap down here over an empty storefront, I'd personally rather have a store not available at the Galleria. It would certainly make my travel time less, but I just don't if there are enough people downtown to support the store without people coming in from elsewhere who are likely to go to the closer Galleria instead.

Thus, while I'll take about anything over an empty storefront, I hope for downtown to end up with more unique stores that are either not available as much in the area. I know if I wasn't living or working downtown I'd be less likely to make it a destination if it was basically stuff I could get elsewhere. There are exceptions to what I hope for. Despite a location not too far away at the Galleria, I'd love to see an Apple Store downtown, and I make no apologies for that. My reason is that both Apple Stores in St. Louis are insanely crowded and thus I think we could easily support another one. Plus, I don't believe there are any on the Illinois side and thus we could draw people from that direction (the same could apply to any other stores on the Missouri, but not the Illinois side).

Another thought on not just having chain stores downtown, but perhaps doing it a better way, would be to encourage companies to set up their area flagship location downtown. Then, even if the stores were available elsewhere in the area, we'd have larger versions of the stores available and/or they'd have a better merchandise selection, etc. For instance, going back to the Apple Store, they've been building some crazy flagship stores in New York, Chicago, etc. Considering their St. Louis locations are only in malls so far, it'd be pretty easy for them to do something more unique downtown and really make that store a destination. Basically, I'll take what I can get downtown in place of the empty storefronts, but I'd rather not settle for that and thus I hope for more.

Is there any group in the city that specifically works on national retail for downtown? There was a disappointing store move that happened recently. Lululemon, a higher end athletic wear retailer (workout, running, yoga-wear, etc.) has been expanding a lot nationwide. About a year or so ago they opened a test showroom in the Central West End to evaluate the market. They held, and still hold, events are various places in the city such as near the Arch or near SLU and they have in store yoga classes free weekend mornings which worked great for their walkable location. They recently opened their full store to replace the showroom and it looks really nice. However, it's no longer in the CWE or even in the City, instead its in the middle of the Plaza Frontenac. Sigh.

They - whoever that is - should consider "cutting deals" with whatever guy comes a-knocking in my estimation!

Maybe it's me, but when I see something vacant I always have an idea or see an opportunity to do something with it. The relative vacant-ness doesn't seem to change the "market".

It's not a scenario where Starbucks comes in and replaces Joe's Coffee Shop and everyone gets upset.. Right now, there IS no Joe's Coffee Shop. It seems to me a preference for vacancy and it's probably not just St. Louis.

This. When you cut a deal for one guy, then the next guy comes along and you have to cut a deal for him too. Rinse and repeat

But the city already gives the "big important" companies handouts to stay or move here, so deal cutting already takes place. Why shouldn't the little guy get a cut of the action?

I wonder what's better, cutting deals for the large corporations that may or may not stay, or giving breaks to the little guy who may have more incentive to stay where they're at for a long time. Should we stop large corporate handouts and give it to the local shop owner?

As the poster said above, I wonder how many people would open a business if they knew the city would work with them the same way they work with all the law offices, etc. etc.?

If city hall paid attention to the small guy, who knows how many of these small spaces that a corporation can't fit into could be filled by small, independent business.

I'm probably not seeing something or oversimplifying, but it seems like good sense to at least acknowledge the little guy and try and give him a little boost. Or maybe the city should just stop giving incentives altogether and see how things shake out?

We've tried corporate handouts and it doesn't seem to work all that well, maybe it's time to try something new?

Alex Ihnen wrote:
I guess the following examples would be the chain-lets some of speaking of, but City Grocer wouldn't have made it on its own - it was heavily subsidized, as is Left Bank Books downtown. There's talk of Big Shark Bikes opening a location as well - also subsidized. Are there the "little guys" that should be supported or are you talking even smaller?

I'd note that both City Grocer and Left Bank books are being subsidized by a residential developer who's trying to sell lofts. They are part of his sales pitch. Loss leaders, in a sense.
I think it's a smart move by Heller, and great for downtown. But not every owner of retail space shares his motivation, or his vision and cojones (or deep pockets, I'm not sure which).

I wonder what Craig Heller and Left Bank Books will do if another book retailer decides to locate in downtown. I'm glad Left Bank Books is downtown, and I try to shop and buy books and magazines there whenever I can, but I must admit that I'd like to see a bookstore that is a little bigger and one that has late and consistent hours.

(And while this might seem like a minor quibble, I still think they'd benefit from larger signage.)

I understand that Left Bank Books is probably unable to commit to the downtown store to that extent, and I am glad they are there now, but to be honest, I'd still like to see a Borders or Barnes & Noble in downtown. And while it is a longshot, I think the odds are better than those of landing another department store (whether we're talking about a discount retailer like Target or something moderately upscale like Nordstrom).

threeonefour wrote:I wonder what Craig Heller and Left Bank Books will do if another book retailer decides to locate in downtown. I'm glad Left Bank Books is downtown, and I try to shop and buy books and magazines there whenever I can, but I must admit that I'd like to see a bookstore that is a little bigger and one that has late and consistent hours.

(And while this might seem like a minor quibble, I still think they'd benefit from larger signage.)

I understand that Left Bank Books is probably unable to commit to the downtown store to that extent, and I am glad they are there now, but to be honest, I'd still like to see a Borders or Barnes & Noble in downtown. And while it is a longshot, I think the odds are better than those of landing another department store (whether we're talking about a discount retailer like Target or something moderately upscale like Nordstrom).

Another book retailer won't open up downtown unless it's a (dare I say it) novelty like Vintage Vinyl. With the advent of the iPad, book retailers will slowly be going the way of Sam Goody and Blockbuster.

shadrach wrote:I wonder too (regarding another book retailer.) I like that Left Bank is downtown but their selection is mighty thin.
I can browse the history section (and make a mental shopping list) in Borders for hours.
At Left Bank I'm done in about 15 seconds.

I generally have an idea of the book(s) I want before I go into the store. If Left Bank doesn't have it in stock, they'll order it for me. I haven't spent a dime at Borders or on Amazon since it opened.

leeharveyawesome wrote:At one point recently I was dead serious about a retail venture downtown. I looked around at places and rent and decided that I just couldn't do it. I mean, how long do some of these places need to be vacant before somebody tries to swing a deal to get things moving? I wouldn't even know where to begin as an example. It's almost like you have to go into something with a "Well, I've got some money to lose" attitude.

The preference for vacancy in St Louis is mind-blowing.

Did you look at the retail space at Crown Square in Old North? They do not prefer vacancy and the build-out allowance is very generous.

shadrach wrote:I wonder too (regarding another book retailer.) I like that Left Bank is downtown but their selection is mighty thin.
I can browse the history section (and make a mental shopping list) in Borders for hours.
At Left Bank I'm done in about 15 seconds.

You don't need a Borders to have a large selection. In my neighborhood, I have about 5 bookstores within a half mile radius of my apartment, none larger than Left Bank's CWE location. But each one has their strengths. If I'm looking for a hard to find used book, I go to Forest Books first. If I'm looking for book about history, there's another bookstore with that strength. Likewise with fiction, poetry, sociology, psychology, politics, mystery, sci fi, etc. I don't have a Borders, but it's a rare day that I can't find a book nearby. They are much more fun to browse and they take up more individual storefronts than a single, large book retailer would. That would be a great thing to have in any neighborhood of the City.