urbanSTL

Like I said before, depending on the detailing, materials, etc., this could turn out to be a pretty nice looking building. Thanks for the pics, Arch.

I like it as long as the ground floor retail is accessible and inviting. It's surprising to me how much of Clayton is dead to the street. Whether it's a lack of retail (government/office buildings) or somewhat odd 1/2 basement entrances (First Watch), there are a number of blocks that show very little life - like a cross between a vibrant downtown and a homogenous office campus.

I notice that the small type at the bottom says "Conceptual rendering". I guess this still isn't the real, "official" version.

this will be a nice addition to Clayton, I just wish it had happened downtown. I doubt they would be dealing with the same condemnation issues downtown.

I notice that the small type at the bottom says "Conceptual rendering". I guess this still isn't the real, "official" version.

The "concept" seems to be that only very, very skinny people will be allowed to frequent the shops!

I do like the concept. I'd like to see this built as depicted. So glad it's not "historic," ala the Plaza in Clayton. (Speaking of which, anyone listen to KFUO? Every time I think or say the Plaza in Clayton, I think of that commercial on KFUO where Ron Klemm says "the PLAH-zuh in CLAY-ton." In this snobby kinda way. Just gotta hear it, I guess.)

The best I can figure, the restaurant called "Clayton Bistro" in the bottom rendering occupies the property they want to take by eminent domain. I just don't see why that section is so critical to this project. Maybe that parking garage looming in the background is the real answer?

^^Yuck...the Plaza in Clayton has got to be one of the butt ugliest buildings ever. Those cheap looking windows that go on floor after floor look like they came off of a mobile home...and the top reminds me of a melting ice cream cone shaped in the form of Lenin's Tomb. Ugly. I'm so glad they didn't build this mess in the city...I wonder how they got away with building it in Clayton?!

The Centene looks nice in the renderings. Would rather they had chosen to go downtown, though.

Marmar wrote:...I wonder how they got away with building it in Clayton?!

Most people must not share your opinion

Walking by Centene yesterday I stopped and looked at the model in the window. It may be a bit old now, but the properties in question would indeed become a very large parking garage with possible retail on the ground floor.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument



Per the Post, courts have ruled for the property owners, but the case will need to be heard by the MO Supreme Court. Was this ruling expected?

I agree with Marmar....the Plaza in Clayton is one of the ugliest buildings in the region.

ChrisInDownTown wrote:Per the Post, courts have ruled for the property owners, but the case will need to be heard by the MO Supreme Court. Was this ruling expected?

As much as I'd like to see the tower built, I'm very encouraged by this decision. Eminant Domain has gotten out of control (see Bohemian Hill). To claim that any portion of downtown Clayton is "blighted" is just ridiculous. Worse, it's dishonest and downright thievery.



If Centenne really needs that piece of (private) property, then they need to buck-up and make the owners an offer they can't refuse. It's the American way!

Downtown STL should be making a lucrative offer to Centene for them to build downtown. If Clayton doesn't want them then STL should

St.Louis UAB alumni wrote:Downtown STL should be making a lucrative offer to Centene for them to build downtown. If Clayton doesn't want them then STL should

totally agree (except that Clayton doesn't want Centene.) This has nothing to do with Clayton wanting Centene. This has to do with Centene being able to acquire enough land to build their two towers.)



Why not just build one taller building on the land they do own. Lord knows between the old book store and the huge parking garage, there is plenty of room for a tower and garage.

bpe235 wrote:

St.Louis UAB alumni wrote:Downtown STL should be making a lucrative offer to Centene for them to build downtown. If Clayton doesn't want them then STL should

totally agree (except that Clayton doesn't want Centene.) This has nothing to do with Clayton wanting Centene. This has to do with Centene being able to acquire enough land to build their two towers.)



Why not just build one taller building on the land they do own. Lord knows between the old book store and the huge parking garage, there is plenty of room for a tower and garage.

True. If I was Centene I would tell the land owners f-u and build one giant sun-blocking tower.

dweebe wrote:

bpe235 wrote:

St.Louis UAB alumni wrote:Downtown STL should be making a lucrative offer to Centene for them to build downtown. If Clayton doesn't want them then STL should

totally agree (except that Clayton doesn't want Centene.) This has nothing to do with Clayton wanting Centene. This has to do with Centene being able to acquire enough land to build their two towers.)



Why not just build one taller building on the land they do own. Lord knows between the old book store and the huge parking garage, there is plenty of room for a tower and garage.

True. If I was Centene I would tell the land owners f-u and build one giant sun-blocking tower.

you're taking private property from one party and giving it to another private party. where's the public use? this isn't even like the new london, ct case where the argument that the area was blighted/distressed was at least plausible. like someone said earlier, if centene wants it that bad, then buck up.

I understood that the argument is really about the definition of "blighted." One definition I have heard is simply an area that could have a higher use. Using this definition, if a larger building can be built that would increase the number of jobs, add to the property tax, etc., then a property can be blighted. It's all a matter of degree. Some of the properties within Cortex were being used to capacity, but it was decided that there is a higher use.

Grover wrote:I understood that the argument is really about the definition of "blighted." One definition I have heard is simply an area that could have a higher use. Using this definition, if a larger building can be built that would increase the number of jobs, add to the property tax, etc., then a property can be blighted. It's all a matter of degree. Some of the properties within Cortex were being used to capacity, but it was decided that there is a higher use.

if that's the definition of blighted, then every business owner is in trouble.

can we blight the aldermanic chamber?

Shakespere had it right: "First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers".

more info here.... http://www.centeneplaza.com







A pulic forum will be held at the Crown Plaza Hotel to review design and materials associated with the Centene Plaza project.

Speakers:

Robert Wislow - CEO US Equities Realty

Gyo Obata - HOK

Bob Clark - Clayco

David Malmuth - Managing Director Robert Charles Lessor Co



Thursday May 17 7-830pm

So Centene says the jobs and investment "will be lost" if they don't get the adjacent businesses . . . anyone know where they'll go? I know there are business explanations for this, but why, why can't they build on open parking lots in Clayton? Of course it would take some work and $$, but it can be done. It'd be great to have them downtown as well.



For those who watched the animation - I had a real Star-Wars, when-the-he!!-is-this-thing-going-to-end moment with the parking garage - it went on forever! With the parking garage at Forsyth and Jackson and now this one, Forsyth will be one ugly street. I don't understand why they wouldn't orient the building towards Forsyth. It has much longer and nicer sightlines and is much more pedestrian friendly than Hanley.