I agree. I won't consider anymore it because I need more than one bedroom. I don' t know why they didn't try marketing it with the two-bedroom units before redesigning it. Retiring boomers don't want to downsize that far -- they need a guest bedroom for visiting kids and home offices. A tower at Busch will attract much wealthier boomers etc. looking for more than a studio.moorlander wrote:I had two friends who REALLY wanted to move into OPOP but the lack of 2 bedroom apartments killed the deal. (Highrise new construction was top of the list) One was married (newlyweds) and they wanted an extra bedroom/office and the other was two friends who wanted to live together as roommates. In neither case was price the issue.downtown2007 wrote:From what I have heard Tower at OPOP may not be a good comparison. It lacks a variety of floor plans and # of bedrooms. It's also priced higher than the rest of the market.roger wyoming II wrote:^ I definitely thought about it; certainly downtown would be more robust as a whole if it didn't have Clayton as a competitor. But I'm not sure how much of a factor downtown Clayton has been on downtown Saint Louis residential demand in recent years.... as far as I know, no multi-family projects have opened the past few years in downtown Clayton to compete with downtown STL. In fact, region-wide, I think the only project that was a competitor for leasing up the Tower OPOP in terms of newly available high-rise was the Millennium Center (which offers nice views and lower rents but not quite as fancy amenities).
Again, my belief is that if Tower OPOP had leased fast & furious we'd have seen more sequels announced. For whatever reasons, though, downtown STL seems to have lost some of its luster with high-end residential the past few years and my worry has been as more high-quality projects begin to open up in CWE and Clayton, etc., it will be all the more difficult to get big projects off the ground downtown.
Also, when comparing to other cities like Kansas City, it isn't like they don't have other growing jobs and apartment districts.... the KC's Plaza is hot, e.g. and across Stateline Road are a number of Kansas communities at war with downtown on jobs and also putting up big apartment complexes. I think stronger population and jobs growth in other regions are helping to drive more activity across the board, including downtown, but I also think we may have lost a bit of focus on ours and need to examine what we can do to perk things back up a bit. The Arcade-Wright will be a nice feather in the cap and should lease well (as it is tilted highly to the subsidized artists units) and if we can get another high-profile project like BPV or Jefferson Arms -- hopefully with higher market-rate rents - off the ground successfully that would help get things back on track as well. If cranking up the subsidies a bit is what it'll take, I'm fine with that.
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^ including visiting Card fans throughout Cardinal Nation. It's really a no brainer, what's taking them so long?
^ My two cents - Cordish gives a rats a$$ about St. Louis and DeWitt refuses to speculate one dollar of the Cardinals profits on St. Louis. Instead, if they wait long enough and get hard cash out of the city then the statement of St. Louis subsiding the loss but Cordish/DeWitt privatizing the profits would ring very true. I simply believe it has come down to that as it is currently structured.
Is there any update you can share on this? I am curious how this is going, and if the company decided against it, why.sirshankalot wrote:No tease...companies are always kicking the tires DT. I just know of one who is kicking the tires right now.
The problem with OPOP Tower is parking - as I see it.
Yes....hulking garages are nearby, but there is no attached garage.
For many potential renters, this is a problem due to weather, safety, convenience etc.
Imagine arriving home from a job in Clayton or WUMC at 12am after having gotten off at 11pm then having to park in the Century garage. You have to gather all of your sh*t then walk a couple of blocks depending where you have parked in the garage - and God forbid it is raining or snowing with ice and sh*t. Then you have to go up to the 25th floor. sh*t.....I'm exhausted just thinking about it. Is there a valet service? If so, then that's an extra expense.
I believe OPOP Tower would have leased out by now with a garage.
Think about it..............they were able to lease out Park-Pacific lightening fast. It has an attached garage.
All of the big new projects in the CWE/Central Corridor have parking allotments. Even The Arcade downtown will have under ground parking spaces. Gripe and complain all day about parking, if you want, but convenient parking is essential for residential development.
Light One in KC will have an attached garage and it has had so much interest that the 24-story Light Two could start next year.
Yes....hulking garages are nearby, but there is no attached garage.
For many potential renters, this is a problem due to weather, safety, convenience etc.
Imagine arriving home from a job in Clayton or WUMC at 12am after having gotten off at 11pm then having to park in the Century garage. You have to gather all of your sh*t then walk a couple of blocks depending where you have parked in the garage - and God forbid it is raining or snowing with ice and sh*t. Then you have to go up to the 25th floor. sh*t.....I'm exhausted just thinking about it. Is there a valet service? If so, then that's an extra expense.
I believe OPOP Tower would have leased out by now with a garage.
Think about it..............they were able to lease out Park-Pacific lightening fast. It has an attached garage.
All of the big new projects in the CWE/Central Corridor have parking allotments. Even The Arcade downtown will have under ground parking spaces. Gripe and complain all day about parking, if you want, but convenient parking is essential for residential development.
Light One in KC will have an attached garage and it has had so much interest that the 24-story Light Two could start next year.
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I see what you are saying but it's practically right across the street. Not every new building is going to have attached parking.
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I'm guessing they have Valet too for those late nights/poor weather.
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Tenants get a few complimentary valets each month + reduced rate after that. Plus room service from the hotel restaurant, etc., etc. yelpers like it:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-tower-at-opop-saint-louis
(I think the person who gave it a 1 star upped it to 5.)
http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-tower-at-opop-saint-louis
(I think the person who gave it a 1 star upped it to 5.)
Well, the persons first mistake is dealing with driving at all. If you work at WUMC or in Clayton and live at OPOP Tower you're better off taking Metrolink.arch city wrote:Imagine arriving home from a job in Clayton or WUMC at 12am after having gotten off at 11pm then having to park in the Century garage.
Speaking of which, does anyone know where things stand in terms of leasing for OPOP Tower? They stopped posting the available units on the website back in March around the time it hit 50%. Anyone have any updates or anecdotal evidence of occupancy? I know it's not a major factor in where to live (certainly not as big as convenient parking) but having Sauce on the Side as a tenant certainly helps the curb appeal of the building.arch city wrote:I believe OPOP Tower would have leased out by now with a garage.
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Interesting article about how Rawlings is getting out of football helmet production after re-launching that a few years ago (and football helmet production in general in an era of concussion concerns):
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... dd951.html
When Rawlings re-entered the football helmet market after a 20-year hiatus, the company sought to extend its brand recognition.
Founded in St. Louis in 1887, Rawlings is the official batting helmet and ball supplier for Major League Baseball.
Call me crazy, but it just seems like a completely wasted opportunity to not have this historic company be highly visible in Ballpark Village. Instead its completely invisible in the borg assimilation of Maryville Dr.
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... dd951.html
When Rawlings re-entered the football helmet market after a 20-year hiatus, the company sought to extend its brand recognition.
Founded in St. Louis in 1887, Rawlings is the official batting helmet and ball supplier for Major League Baseball.
Call me crazy, but it just seems like a completely wasted opportunity to not have this historic company be highly visible in Ballpark Village. Instead its completely invisible in the borg assimilation of Maryville Dr.
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^
It's so easy to visualize their corporate logo on a huge neon sign with a GIANT replica of a baseball or glove, visible during every Cards game. It would be so freaking cool.
It's so easy to visualize their corporate logo on a huge neon sign with a GIANT replica of a baseball or glove, visible during every Cards game. It would be so freaking cool.
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Who remembers this?
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Sure wish Carpark Village was part of a tower as initially envisioned here:
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and
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Sure wish Carpark Village was part of a tower as initially envisioned here:
and
I've tried to block it out. But yes, I remember.
It's particularly tough seeing the smiles on their faces as they unveiled their new lego set.
It's particularly tough seeing the smiles on their faces as they unveiled their new lego set.
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New Marlins stadium is boxed in by 4 parking garages that look like a prison.
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I think St. Louis' problem more than anything is a lack of a consistent and executable plan. We let developers piece meal develop the city without any guidelines or vision. People are quick to say that TOD doesn't work here, but why hasn't the city put its weight behind a TOD plan with infrastructure, getting the areas build ready? Urban development has to be something the city wants, other cities take proactive steps to become the cities they want to be.
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Looks like things are continuing to fill in nicely around PNC Park in Pittsburgh. C'mon Phase II, get yerself done!
Also, if implosion porn is your thing, I can satisfy your fetish with this slo-mo and reverse footage of today's implosion of the Park Hotel in Detroit that will be making way for the new Hockey Arena. The neighboring building will be renovated as part of the Hockeytown District.
http://videos.mlive.com/mlive/2015/07/w ... cart_river
It's okay if you watch... nobody here is judging you.
Also, if implosion porn is your thing, I can satisfy your fetish with this slo-mo and reverse footage of today's implosion of the Park Hotel in Detroit that will be making way for the new Hockey Arena. The neighboring building will be renovated as part of the Hockeytown District.
http://videos.mlive.com/mlive/2015/07/w ... cart_river
It's okay if you watch... nobody here is judging you.
I'm sorry, but I have no love for Bill Dewitt and the Cardinals (as for this project).
It has been almost 10 years - there is PLENTY of upswing downtown IMO and the Cardinals have been sitting on this for ever. I think they could care less about this project because they sing and dance around it all the time when the media swoops in and that is it. The entire thing at this point is a joke. As long as the fans pack the stadium for every home game (which STL does) and will pay out the wing wang for tickets - they don't care.
I was just in Denver at Coors Field to see the Cards play in June. The stadium was less than 1/2 full - and about 1/3 were Cardinals fans - our seats were just behind 3rd base - lower/field and were 15.00 pp. The food was half the price as Busch.
On July 3rd - our seats at the TOP of Busch were 32.50 each and we paid 78.00 for 3 burgers/3 fries/1 Nacho Regular/1 bottle water and 2 sodas. Yep - no beer and nothing else. So all is all - with parking - about 200.00 bucks - 2 kids and 2 adults.
I have absolutely NO SYMPATHY or RESPECT for the Cards owners. If they wanted to "support and pay back" their city and fans - this would have been done A LONG time ago. A true sickening PITY!
It has been almost 10 years - there is PLENTY of upswing downtown IMO and the Cardinals have been sitting on this for ever. I think they could care less about this project because they sing and dance around it all the time when the media swoops in and that is it. The entire thing at this point is a joke. As long as the fans pack the stadium for every home game (which STL does) and will pay out the wing wang for tickets - they don't care.
I was just in Denver at Coors Field to see the Cards play in June. The stadium was less than 1/2 full - and about 1/3 were Cardinals fans - our seats were just behind 3rd base - lower/field and were 15.00 pp. The food was half the price as Busch.
On July 3rd - our seats at the TOP of Busch were 32.50 each and we paid 78.00 for 3 burgers/3 fries/1 Nacho Regular/1 bottle water and 2 sodas. Yep - no beer and nothing else. So all is all - with parking - about 200.00 bucks - 2 kids and 2 adults.
I have absolutely NO SYMPATHY or RESPECT for the Cards owners. If they wanted to "support and pay back" their city and fans - this would have been done A LONG time ago. A true sickening PITY!
http://www.statista.com/statistics/1936 ... b-by-team/
http://www.statista.com/statistics/2027 ... l-by-team/
http://www.statista.com/statistics/2026 ... l-by-team/
https://www.teammarketing.com/public/up ... lb+fci.pdf
The Cardinals are definitely above average in terms of pricing, however, rank as one of the most successful teams among those with higher costs.
Some tricks I've been using more and more over the years:
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/stl/ti ... _pitch.jsp
Buy the brats and dogs outside the stadium as you can bring them in. Last time we got 2 brats for $5.00 and they gave us a free bag of Gus' Pretzels at Broadway and Spruce since it was right before first pitch and they were cleaning house.
Take a Soulard Shuttle from 1860s/Molly's/Hammerstone's/Grizzly Bear/etc. My favorite is 1860s as a draft beer is all you need to buy for a "ticket" for the shuttle. Friends from out of town are always impressed. On weekends there is usually live music before and after.
Or, if the goal is to watch baseball as cheaply as possible, try the Gateway Grizzlies, Rascals, or heck, Kirkwood or Affton Athletic.
I don't think development opportunities are the benchmark of a franchise "caring" or "giving back." It is unfortunate that BPV has evolved as it has to date, and I doubt ownership is aggressively trying to rectify that. However, their main product is extremely impressive and takes the majority of their time and energy. Even though BPV is what it is, there are not that many places you can watch from a rooftop. The Cardinals Hall of Fame and Museum, in my opinion, are first rate amenities, also.
They do find some ways, however, to reach out to the community every so often:
http://kickthemback.com/baseball/st-lou ... s-charity/
http://www.statista.com/statistics/2027 ... l-by-team/
http://www.statista.com/statistics/2026 ... l-by-team/
https://www.teammarketing.com/public/up ... lb+fci.pdf
The Cardinals are definitely above average in terms of pricing, however, rank as one of the most successful teams among those with higher costs.
Some tricks I've been using more and more over the years:
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/stl/ti ... _pitch.jsp
Buy the brats and dogs outside the stadium as you can bring them in. Last time we got 2 brats for $5.00 and they gave us a free bag of Gus' Pretzels at Broadway and Spruce since it was right before first pitch and they were cleaning house.
Take a Soulard Shuttle from 1860s/Molly's/Hammerstone's/Grizzly Bear/etc. My favorite is 1860s as a draft beer is all you need to buy for a "ticket" for the shuttle. Friends from out of town are always impressed. On weekends there is usually live music before and after.
Or, if the goal is to watch baseball as cheaply as possible, try the Gateway Grizzlies, Rascals, or heck, Kirkwood or Affton Athletic.
I don't think development opportunities are the benchmark of a franchise "caring" or "giving back." It is unfortunate that BPV has evolved as it has to date, and I doubt ownership is aggressively trying to rectify that. However, their main product is extremely impressive and takes the majority of their time and energy. Even though BPV is what it is, there are not that many places you can watch from a rooftop. The Cardinals Hall of Fame and Museum, in my opinion, are first rate amenities, also.
They do find some ways, however, to reach out to the community every so often:
http://kickthemback.com/baseball/st-lou ... s-charity/
It's easy enough for me to avoid the overpriced Busch food. And with the advent of Stubhub, ticket face values are increasingly irrelevant.
But the fact that they don't sell 4 Hands beer, made within walking distance of Busch, is unfathomable. You can buy that at Kansas City's Stadium, but not here.
For St. Louis being one of the better beer cities in the country, Busch Stadium is an embarrassment in terms of beer. A-B could even put in some type of 'test kitchen' microbrewery of their own like Coors does at Coors Field in Denver.
But the fact that they don't sell 4 Hands beer, made within walking distance of Busch, is unfathomable. You can buy that at Kansas City's Stadium, but not here.
For St. Louis being one of the better beer cities in the country, Busch Stadium is an embarrassment in terms of beer. A-B could even put in some type of 'test kitchen' microbrewery of their own like Coors does at Coors Field in Denver.
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^ when AB has the naming rights they get a say in what's served. That being said there is good beer to be found.
I have found Shlaftly and UCBC on tap at the ballpark and my new favorite deal - New Belgium Ranger "tall boys"
I have found Shlaftly and UCBC on tap at the ballpark and my new favorite deal - New Belgium Ranger "tall boys"
Is it true that the Cardinals have tried updating their food offerings? I was having a conversation with a buddy about ballparks during the Home Run Derby, and we were discussing various aspects that we use to rate ballparks, and one of them is food. Specifically, we like seeing local cuisine at stadiums (crab rolls in Baltimore, BBQ in KC, $30 Lobster rolls at Fenway, etc.) I always thought Busch was pretty generic in terms of food - hot dogs, burgers, nachos. It's a great stadium, but I think they could improve this aspect (and heard before they were trying). It definitely adds to the experience when you're visiting an out-of-town ballpark.
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Hot dogs, burgers and cotton candy are local cuisine. *1904smugface*