urbanSTL

SMSPlanstu wrote:Today, MLK Blvd. is a saddened street with at least the Robert's experiment at seeing if the northside could support retail, and it did.

I agree with most of your comments. Let me clarify some things.



Before the Roberts' built their Roberts Village, Desco Group (owned by the Schnuck family) built City Plaza on Natural Bridge and Union. City Plaza has been a resounding success since 1998.



Also, there have been numerous new smaller strip centers built or renovated over recent years that are always at capacity, and other solid urban blocks that have been renovated and successfully hold stores and boutiques.



Any reservations about north city supporting retail is a non-issue as proven by these projects, however, redlining, discrimination, and ignorance keeps retail development in north city from reaching its full potential.



The first two were taken by me.











These were taken by Desco.











This is a renovated retail block along Natural Bridge Rd. near Union taken by me.

Thank you for the pictures, Arch. I'm surprised that some of us on this board aren't attacking these "suburban" developments

Matt Drops The H wrote:Thank you for the pictures, Arch. I'm surprised that some of us on this board aren't attacking these "suburban" developments

Yes, many people on this board do and should take exception to this kind of development. I won't even begin to go into why because for most (I hope) it is glaringly obvious. Urban principles are remarkably simple - applying them may not be. What I will ask, though, is that you stick to making cogent reasoned arguments to support your position instead of "attacking"arguments not yet made. It is obvious from from your posts that you are young and have been indoctrinated in the suburban world. Many of us that you call "purists" (a compliment, by the way) have a much greater breadth of understanding that you may just learn from.



See MattH's reply to your Midtown post from 11:15 today. Read it, read it a second time and then read it again. http://urbanstlouis.com/urbanstl/viewto ... 4&start=15

Cityboy wrote:...stick to making cogent reasoned arguments to support your position instead of "attacking"arguments not yet made.

I want to reiterate this point. Let's keep this a discussion and not try to instigate or intentionally provoke someone into an argument. This will only turn the current discussion into an endless flame-war. If you find yourself a victim of an unprovoked personal attack, do the right thing by not responding, keeping the discussion intact and preventing it from degenerating. Thanks!

Cityboy wrote:

Matt Drops The H wrote:Thank you for the pictures, Arch. I'm surprised that some of us on this board aren't attacking these "suburban" developments

Yes, many people on this board do and should take exception to this kind of development. I won't even begin to go into why because for most (I hope) it is glaringly obvious. Urban principles are remarkably simple - applying them may not be. What I will ask, though, is that you stick to making cogent reasoned arguments to support your position instead of "attacking"arguments not yet made. It is obvious from from your posts that you are young and have been indoctrinated in the suburban world. Many of us that you call "purists" (a compliment, by the way) have a much greater breadth of understanding that you may just learn from.



See MattH's reply to your Midtown post from 11:15 today. Read it, read it a second time and then read it again. http://urbanstlouis.com/urbanstl/viewto ... 4&start=15

Hmm...sorry if my above comment was taken to be flaming. Its intention was certainly not to offend anyone. I realize it sounds really snotty now that I look at it again. I respect everyone's opinion, even if I differ from them.



I do use the term "purist", but it's a more a compliment than anything else. I wish I had the optimism of somone who wants to turn everything in the City completely urban. I think that would be excellent under the right conditions.



I'll comment more on this topic in the Midtown topic.



Sorry again to anyone that took offense to my above post.

Who's attacking who? Urban Prinicples are easy to understand, but more experimenting is needed. By this I am not referring to suburban developments and I did not even suggest this, I suggested continuing Roberts experiments but not as strip centers but as what we all know what it should be. So please understand that I do make sense, and that maybe your continual desire to attack does not always apply. Either way MLK will evolve. Evolution of cities does not mean more of the same but urbanization. This is because history shows that urbanization works. So please do not jump the gun. Now as advocates of urbanization let us not fight among ourselves since our common resolve is known, and despite age callowness does not apply. Go in peace

SMSPlanstu wrote:Who's attacking who? Urban Prinicples are easy to understand, but more experimenting is needed. By this I am not referring to suburban developments and I did not even suggest this, I suggested continuing Roberts experiments but not as strip centers but as what we all know what it should be. So please understand that I do make sense, and that maybe your continual desire to attack does not always apply. Either way MLK will evolve. Evolution of cities does not mean more of the same but urbanization. This is because history shows that urbanization works. So please do not jump the gun. Now as advocates of urbanization let us not fight among ourselves since our common resolve is known, and despite age callowness does not apply. Go in peace

I hope you're right. Amen.