Yikes....roger wyoming II wrote:Authorization for KC Streetcar expansion also failed big time.
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This will not reflect too well on Mayor Slay. I did begin to question his motives when he came out in support of A7. (And Db, just so you know, you do not have to respond to every anti-7 comment. thanks)
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Oh I know. It's almost past my bedtime so I won't be able to anyway tonight 
Good thing from this is that it has a lot more people talking about transportation, and that's a good thing. As for the project lists, most of the "highway" projects will still be done in the next 10 years...I hope the no on 7 doesn't stop at just winning the battle which is A7, the funding source...the war is the policy and that haven't changed with A7 failing.
Good thing from this is that it has a lot more people talking about transportation, and that's a good thing. As for the project lists, most of the "highway" projects will still be done in the next 10 years...I hope the no on 7 doesn't stop at just winning the battle which is A7, the funding source...the war is the policy and that haven't changed with A7 failing.
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The Missouri Legislature won't raise the gas tax itself so I think the best route for highway proponents is to ask voters for a modest gas tax increase and a toll for I-70.dbInSouthCity wrote: But again, gas tax is warming up in the bullpen and there are ways of raising it without going to the voters.
I am interested in knowing exactly how much money the highway lobby threw away tonight.
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$0. They will get it back by bidding higher on MoDOT projects a few times to make up their lose , so really they thru away your money if you own a car.Ebsy wrote:I am interested in knowing exactly how much money the highway lobby threw away tonight.
Eh. They could have just bid it higher to begin with then. This isn't money they can get back period no matter how it's spun.
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I think they spent $4million, there will be $700,000,000 in contracts award this fiscal year by MoDOT and another $400,000,000 by local govs.
They wouldn't have spent it if they couldn't afford to lose it. It's still interesting to see how much money they threw at a losing effort.
The biggest loser is probably Citizens for Modern Transit. They obviously had almost no impact in the St. Louis Media Market.
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Of course I mean it was invest $4m to win $5.4billion, you take those odds any day of the weekjstriebel wrote:They wouldn't have spent it if they couldn't afford to lose it. It's still interesting to see how much money they threw at a losing effort.
1/1350 odds
On the subject of what MoDOT and the legislature will do next, here's a novel thought:
How about the first thing they do is stop pushing for needless expansion and focus strictly on maintenance as the citizens of Missouri have repeatedly requested?
How about the first thing they do is stop pushing for needless expansion and focus strictly on maintenance as the citizens of Missouri have repeatedly requested?
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Hoorah! What a ridiculous amendment. Next time, let's just ask if St. Louis should include Columbia.
^Hahaha. You nailed it.
I'm really proud of Missouri voters for not just going with the moneyed/advertised interest (as they did when defeating the cigarette tax hike proposal funded by the Convenience store lobby). As imran said, this is just common sense voting, and Missourians knowing a bad bill when they see one. They looked past the punditry and the few pretty projects dangled in front of them and realized this isn't how they want to pay for the state's roads.
Bring on the gas tax. That's what it should have been from the beginning. And if MODoT wants its cash injection ASAP maybe they can change the laws to allow a trickle of gas tax proceeds into true transit initiatives. That would certainly help get everyone against Prop 7 on board, and streamline its approval.
I'm really proud of Missouri voters for not just going with the moneyed/advertised interest (as they did when defeating the cigarette tax hike proposal funded by the Convenience store lobby). As imran said, this is just common sense voting, and Missourians knowing a bad bill when they see one. They looked past the punditry and the few pretty projects dangled in front of them and realized this isn't how they want to pay for the state's roads.
Bring on the gas tax. That's what it should have been from the beginning. And if MODoT wants its cash injection ASAP maybe they can change the laws to allow a trickle of gas tax proceeds into true transit initiatives. That would certainly help get everyone against Prop 7 on board, and streamline its approval.
Missouri is ranked 46th for gas taxes... Bring it on, you use it, you pay for it.
Citizens for what now? Wow, they've really become irrelevant in the past ten or so years.Ebsy wrote:The biggest loser is probably Citizens for Modern Transit. They obviously had almost no impact in the St. Louis Media Market.
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A7 actually passed by a narrow margin in Kansas City, which I think is a good indicator that results would have been much better in the Saint Louis region if there were good transit projects to support. However, the results from last night's local KC vote on expanding the streetcar zone showed that streetcar organizers can't count on residents and property owners within proposed districts to support special assessments and higher sales taxes in the zone.
2 concerns from last night.
1) Where do we go from here? Now that A7 has been defeated, what are the funding prospects for transit? I say little to nothing, because urbanites will likely be blamed for the failure of A7. MODOT will just go along with business as usual and Metro will continue to get a trivial amount of funding per year. The lack of vocal leadership from transit at the local political level is what is holding back Metro. If we got together as a region and demanded a change to the current funding model, we could possibly get it or reach a compromise with outstate. I just dont see the gusto from leadership and its unfortunate, because Minneapolis and Denver are eating our lunch right now. Not to mention places like Dallas and Portland, which are on different stratospheres. I'd imagine it would take some kind of federal mandate that states set aside a certain percentage of their money to transit before Missouri gets in the game.
2). What is going on in KC? They cant seem to get light rail off the ground out there. For all the people who constantly bark about KC being more progressive than STL, here is your proof. They are not a progressive city and they make St. Louis look at least a tier or two more progressive. If Kansas City was as progressive as St. Louis, Missouri would not be the clown show that it is today and would probably be more like Colorado or Minnesota, instead of Kentucky and Arkansas.
1) Where do we go from here? Now that A7 has been defeated, what are the funding prospects for transit? I say little to nothing, because urbanites will likely be blamed for the failure of A7. MODOT will just go along with business as usual and Metro will continue to get a trivial amount of funding per year. The lack of vocal leadership from transit at the local political level is what is holding back Metro. If we got together as a region and demanded a change to the current funding model, we could possibly get it or reach a compromise with outstate. I just dont see the gusto from leadership and its unfortunate, because Minneapolis and Denver are eating our lunch right now. Not to mention places like Dallas and Portland, which are on different stratospheres. I'd imagine it would take some kind of federal mandate that states set aside a certain percentage of their money to transit before Missouri gets in the game.
2). What is going on in KC? They cant seem to get light rail off the ground out there. For all the people who constantly bark about KC being more progressive than STL, here is your proof. They are not a progressive city and they make St. Louis look at least a tier or two more progressive. If Kansas City was as progressive as St. Louis, Missouri would not be the clown show that it is today and would probably be more like Colorado or Minnesota, instead of Kentucky and Arkansas.
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from the state? yesgoat314 wrote:Metro will continue to get a trivial amount of funding per year.
metro funding as a whole? that's not trivial, they are well funded. politics do hold metro back on a lot of things but they also dont have the desire to do any "BIG" projects...BRT is the future and that future is now....feds will keep pushing brt.
dbInSouthCity wrote:from the state? yesgoat314 wrote:Metro will continue to get a trivial amount of funding per year.
metro funding as a whole? that's not trivial, they are well funded. politics do hold metro back on a lot of things but they also dont have the desire to do any "BIG" projects...BRT is the future and that future is now....feds will keep pushing brt.
That's what I've always wondered. What is going on at Metro? I've seen cities with the same amount or less funding able to build out systems.
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For starters I don't think Prop A is bringing is as much as they projected...
and they borrowed $400 million from the County to pay off the Blue Line debt and basically the county is now keeping the Prop A funds until they are paid back...that will probably take 8-9 years.
see the prop A line item- $48M in the county + 1/2 cent in the City = $58m a year...they projected $75M.
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NextSTL write up when it passed
and they borrowed $400 million from the County to pay off the Blue Line debt and basically the county is now keeping the Prop A funds until they are paid back...that will probably take 8-9 years.
see the prop A line item- $48M in the county + 1/2 cent in the City = $58m a year...they projected $75M.
NextSTL write up when it passed
Now that Metro has a stable funding source what changes should we expect? First, service to more than 2,000 Metro bus stops cut in March 2009 is scheduled to be restored beginning in June. MetroLink lead times, the wait between trains, will likely be reduced back to 10 minutes, down from the current 15 minutes, and third, Call-A-Ride service will be restored. Call-A-Ride primarily serves the elderly and disabled who do not have access to other means of transportation. About half of the approximate $75M of revenue produced by Prop A and the City sales tax will be committed to restoring and maintaining Metro service. The remaining amount will be targeted toward service expansion, bus, MetroLink and possible Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) lines. For reference, mixed traffic BRT, such as that proposed by Metro for Grand Avenue costs $500K-$1M per mile. Learn more about BRT here (PDF).
The MetroLink Blue Line cost roughly $84M per mile, or almost $676M for 8 miles. This means that extending a current MetroLink line, or building a single new North-South line is a mid-range (5-10 years) goal while BRT has the possibility of becoming a significant part of the St. Louis transit system. See images below for established MetroLink and BRT alternatives. The passage of Prop A also likely means enhanced transit stations and bus stops. Plans for a greatly enhanced Grand Avenue Transit Plaza are already on paper. As the Grand Avenue bridge is replaced, Metro funding will ensure that transit is addressed in the process.
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goat... I don't think urban areas are going to be blamed for the loss.... this was a landslide defeat.
As I also mentioned, A7 actually passed in Kansas City, which had the most transit orientation of all the regions so that should be a good sign to state officials. The streetcar expansion TDD failed in KC b/c the eligible voters -- residents and property owners within the zone -- didn't want higher taxes and assessments; officials are still committed and will look for ways to pursue a path that expands streetcar w/o laying the burden primarily on those w/in the TDD.... not sure anyone here has said they are more progressive than Saint Louis, but they are making strides and we need to partner with them as much as possible on urban issues.
As I also mentioned, A7 actually passed in Kansas City, which had the most transit orientation of all the regions so that should be a good sign to state officials. The streetcar expansion TDD failed in KC b/c the eligible voters -- residents and property owners within the zone -- didn't want higher taxes and assessments; officials are still committed and will look for ways to pursue a path that expands streetcar w/o laying the burden primarily on those w/in the TDD.... not sure anyone here has said they are more progressive than Saint Louis, but they are making strides and we need to partner with them as much as possible on urban issues.