St. Louis news gets (another) "F" in geography

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 16, 2009#12009-06-16T02:09+00:00

Why does this happen so often here? I'm talking about the poor geography, not the shooting.

At 11 p.m., four people were shot while sitting on a porch in the 5900 block of Bartmer Avenue north of the Central West End. Police said two men, 21 and 25, and two women, 30 and 47, were in serious to critical condition.

the central scrutinizer · PostJun 16, 2009#22009-06-16T02:40+00:00

For the record, the 5900 block of Bartmer Ave is north of the CWE.

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 16, 2009#32009-06-16T02:52+00:00

^ Thanks for your insight. So is Chicago.

matt drops the h · PostJun 16, 2009#42009-06-16T03:19+00:00

I get pathetically bent out of shape when news stations report places near city limits that are inside the city as being in the adjacent suburban municipality.

E.g. the Pageant in University City

Michael's/the Piccadilly as being in Maplewood, etc.

How come the media can never annex the DeMun neighborhood of Clayton for the city?

the count · PostJun 16, 2009#52009-06-16T15:07+00:00

The 5900 block of Bartmer Ave is about a 1/4 mile North of the CWE. I don't see where they went wrong on this one.

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 16, 2009#62009-06-16T20:14+00:00

^ No it's not. The CWE is outlined in blue - the 5900 block of Bartmer is red. The orange line is the St. Louis City/U-City border. It's simply not accurate to state that a shooting took place in the 5900 block of Bartmer, north of the CWE. I think it's a lazy reference point by someone and for someone who doesn't know or care about city geography. The problem is that it doesn't tell anyone where the shooting took place. Sure, someone in St. Charles may not care - maybe it's all basically the same to them, but to many people the location is important.

stlmike · PostJun 16, 2009#72009-06-16T20:39+00:00

It's northwest and it's a very close northwest. I don't think it's a big deal. Plus Central West End is one of the most widely identifiable neighborhoods in the region. So, the PD has given both a vague idea of where it took place in the region based on a popular reference point as well as the exact street block, which covers both the layman and the city connossieur. If they said "north of Skinker DeBaliviere" or "northwest of Central West End" I guess that would have been better but it's close enough for me to give them a pass. I've seen worse.

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 16, 2009#82009-06-16T20:41+00:00

If you're a CWE resident and read what the P-D stated what would you think? Well, you're likely to think that there was a shooting very near your neighborhood. What about if you live in the Skinker-DeBaliviere neighborhood? Maybe you would think that the shooting wasn't so close, but instead "over there" by the CWE.

I'm sure there are those who don't particularly care about this distinction, but a news organization should.

the central scrutinizer · PostJun 16, 2009#92009-06-16T21:15+00:00

Grover wrote:^ No it's not. The CWE is outlined in blue - the 5900 block of Bartmer is red. The orange line is the St. Louis City/U-City border. It's simply not accurate to state that a shooting took place in the 5900 block of Bartmer, north of the CWE. I think it's a lazy reference point by someone and for someone who doesn't know or care about city geography. The problem is that it doesn't tell anyone where the shooting took place. Sure, someone in St. Charles may not care - maybe it's all basically the same to them, but to many people the location is important.

The red is north of the CWE. It is also west of the CWE.

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 16, 2009#102009-06-16T21:17+00:00

^ another genius.

innov8ion · PostJun 16, 2009#112009-06-16T21:56+00:00

If one looks closely at the map, the neighborhood where the shooting took place is in the, "West End." Ref: http://stlcin.missouri.org/nbr/neighpro ... eighnum=48

bonwich · PostJun 17, 2009#122009-06-17T02:16+00:00

I'd agree that it's sloppy, but half the broadcast folks in town don't know more than ten St. Louis City neighborhoods, let alone that one of them is actually called the "West End." (Said distinction is also lost on any number of experienced print reporters, but that's another story.)

Anyway, a more precise description would have been "just northeast of the intersection of Skinker and Olive," or "a few blocks south of of Page and Skinker."

the central scrutinizer · PostJun 17, 2009#132009-06-17T02:48+00:00

bonwich wrote:I'd agree that it's sloppy, but half the broadcast folks in town don't know more than ten St. Louis City neighborhoods, let alone that one of them is actually called the "West End." (Said distinction is also lost on any number of experienced print reporters, but that's another story.)

Anyway, a more precise description would have been "just northeast of the intersection of Skinker and Olive," or "a few blocks south of of Page and Skinker."

And certainly nothing to get your panties all twisted up over.

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 17, 2009#142009-06-17T02:50+00:00

^ Fact. My panties aren't twisted.

the count · PostJun 17, 2009#152009-06-17T14:25+00:00

dweebe · PostJun 17, 2009#162009-06-17T14:38+00:00

I think there was a case earlier this year where there was a shooting in the Fox Park/Tower Grove East area and the P-D had "Soulard" in the headline.

mattonarsenal · PostJun 17, 2009#172009-06-17T15:53+00:00

It's northwest and it's a very close northwest. I don't think it's a big deal. Plus Central West End is one of the most widely identifiable neighborhoods in the region.

It's even closer northeast to Clayton than the CWE. So if we are going to get lazy with references and use the most widely identifiable neighborhoods in the region, wouldn't it have been more proper to say the shooting occurred "north of Clayton".

publiceye · PostJun 17, 2009#182009-06-17T15:57+00:00

Well, the reporter was off on the "Central" part, but that is the "West End" neighborhood.

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 17, 2009#192009-06-17T16:29+00:00

I don't believe that the reporter likely knows where the "West End" neighborhood is, or that it exists, or that stating "Central West End" was a mistake and he meant "West End." But I guess anything's possible.

innov8ion · PostJun 17, 2009#202009-06-17T21:53+00:00

The Pet Shop Boys had a nice song titled, "West End Girls." Ref: