urbanSTL

jonkleinow wrote: ↑

10:08 PM - Aug 09

He hasn't said where the $22 billion will come from, though. I don't think he's just going to give them all the funds in a grant. An article I read said that, if the airport and United were to finance it through bonds, the CPE (cost per enplanement, the portion of the airline ticket price that goes towards airport infrastructure) could jump from less than $26 to more than $90 per ticket. Have fun trying to get people to fly through your Dulles hub when every connecting passenger pays $180 for the privilege.

Small correction to this, the $90 CPE would only be for departing, not arriving passenger so they would only be charged it once.

Your overall point stands, although they would spread the cost throughout the system on non Dulles flights also. But it definetly wouldn't incentivize them to connect people there if somewhere else is half the cost. 

Southwest musings..

BNA built fast and they opened a new Southwest concourse.  Plain and simple... BNA beat STL by giving them more space.  Southwest Airlines operates out of approximately 21 to 27 gates across Concourses C and D.  STL has 17 gates for SWA.  This allowed Southwest to move more connections into BNA.  Also, as posted, SWA also closed a lot of ATL and moved the SWA southwest movements to BNA.  

Is SWA "phasing out STL" as a hub.. not at all.  We just need to get our new airport up and running asap. Southwests O&D traffic higher in STL than BNA (just by population size).  

STL should have (in hindsight) built out several more E gates in the old D. However, it may not have helped as BNA was moving fast. In addition,  the current T2 SWA terminal is one sided gates and turn around connections were getting longer for some flights.

The key... get this new airport done asap. During the interim give SWA some additional gates in T2 (as stated above) for capacity on lower connection flights (higher O&D flights).
Much for the reasons below...

93%+ Full: Southwest's 11 Busiest Routes With Seats Nearly Sold Out

"STL, which is the carrier's 11th-busiest facility for departures and has been important for connecting flights for years, featured the most."

https://simpleflying.com/93pc-full-sout ... -sold-out/

Just read that Dallas is accelerating redevelopment of Love field which will expand capacity from 18 million to 24 million per year plus support the addition of additional gates if laws are changed in the future

matguy70 wrote: ↑

4:10 AM - Aug 10

Southwest musings..

BNA built fast and they opened a new Southwest concourse.  Plain and simple... BNA beat STL by giving them more space.  Southwest Airlines operates out of approximately 21 to 27 gates across Concourses C and D.  STL has 17 gates for SWA.  This allowed Southwest to move more connections into BNA.  Also, as posted, SWA also closed a lot of ATL and moved the SWA southwest movements to BNA.  

Is SWA "phasing out STL" as a hub.. not at all.  We just need to get our new airport up and running asap. Southwests O&D traffic higher in STL than BNA (just by population size).  

STL should have (in hindsight) built out several more E gates in the old D. However, it may not have helped as BNA was moving fast. In addition,  the current T2 SWA terminal is one sided gates and turn around connections were getting longer for some flights.

The key... get this new airport done asap. During the interim give SWA some additional gates in T2 (as stated above) for capacity on lower connection flights (higher O&D flights).
Much for the reasons below...

93%+ Full: Southwest's 11 Busiest Routes With Seats Nearly Sold Out

"STL, which is the carrier's 11th-busiest facility for departures and has been important for connecting flights for years, featured the most."

https://simpleflying.com/93pc-full-sout ... -sold-out/

Nashville just opened those extra gates fairly recently. They were way past us even when they had less gates than us. But those new gates are really going to help them grow in the next couple years. 

Nashville's O&D is above us. I think it has been for a couple years now. Our connection percentage had been higher and Nashville has quite a bit more passengers so just the math says their O&D is higher by a decent amount. Tourism really helps them out with O&D numbers. 

I'd also argue Southwest doesn't need more gates here.  If they did they would already have had them. There is nothing stopping them from adding more gates in D/E if they want them. 
They can pretty easily do 8.5 turns a gate a day so that would be 145 flights a day which we are around 120 peak during the week, some stations like Austin are doing closer to 12 turns a day per gate. They just need a better setup here, which the new terminal brings. When they open up D, Southwest was scheduled to add 2 more gates, we will see if they still take them now or not with having less flights now that a year ago. 

That is all a long way of saying... I think the only way we would be bigger now is if we had built a new terminal prior to covid. Southwest grew really fast here in the middle/end of the 2010s before it really started ramping up Nashville. When privatization and covid stopped the momentum here, like killing the new baggage claim, it gave Nashville a chance to catch up and pass us while we were stagnant. Then that also made it easier for Southwest to move their main southeast hub from Atlanta to Nashville. 

matguy70 wrote: ↑

11:24 PM - Aug 11

But on the other hand... SW is full today and is parking planes at C Concourse.  (6:26 pm Tuesday, 8.11.2026)

T2 is usually always full.  

Interesting to see Southwest parked over there at that time of day. 

abandoned customs Lambert
in the basement under the end of C gates past where it’s blocked off now
https://imgur.com/a/6V1MHn4

BarryGlick wrote: ↑

11:53 AM - Aug 24

abandoned customs Lambert
in the basement under the end of C gates past where it’s blocked off now
https://imgur.com/a/6V1MHn4

Looks like that new film Backrooms

Work on reopening D has started. Sounds like they aim to have it open in some capacity in spring

BarryGlick wrote: ↑

11:53 AM - Aug 24

abandoned customs Lambert
in the basement under the end of C gates past where it’s blocked off now
https://imgur.com/a/6V1MHn4

Thank you for that. That's a really neat set of photos. Wish I'd gone through customs here back in the day, just so that I could have seen it once.

Three of the seven routes Alaska is dropping involve Puerto Vallarta International Airport (PVR). The carrier will not resume its seasonal services from Puerto Vallarta to Sacramento, St. Louis, or New York-JFK next year.

https://simpleflying.com/alaska-airlines-cancel-7-routes-reinstate-popular-intra-california-flight/

It is a near certainty that a Southwest lounge will be in STL with the new concourse. Will be interesting to see what their presense in STL will look like after the new concourse is done. Since it will be a better layout for connecting travelers with gates at both sides.

Isn't one of the biggest limiting factors for more flights at STL by most airlines at the present time is the delays in plane deliveries? Since isn't there likely a number of routes that are unserved/underserved as a result? That and there may be impacts from construction at other airports that impact operations there.

imperialmog wrote: ↑

5:48 PM - 3 days ago

It is a near certainty that a Southwest lounge will be in STL with the new concourse. Will be interesting to see what their presense in STL will look like after the new concourse is done. Since it will be a better layout for connecting travelers with gates at both sides.

Isn't one of the biggest limiting factors for more flights at STL by most airlines at the present time is the delays in plane deliveries? Since isn't there likely a number of routes that are unserved/underserved as a result? That and there may be impacts from construction at other airports that impact operations there.

I don’t think Southwest has a plane delivery problems. They have been waiting on the MAX7 but once they start coming they will retire 737-700s about 1 for 1 as they come on. 

There have been issues with Airbus planes but I don’t think it’s holding anyone back much anymore with all the Spirit planes that came available. And Southwest obviously doesn’t have airbus planes .

Everyone should get their resume updated and polished.   Never know until your try.  BizJournal article on possible pay of next director.   Got rendering of new concourse but believe it has been around a while.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... ector.html

The proposed range would nearly triple the minimum and more than triple the maximum of the current pay grade. The former director earned $271,028 in 2024.

Yes that rendering is three? Years old 

This is spot on analysis.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if it’s someone with deep Southwest connections/roots.

shadrach wrote: ↑

12:16 AM - 2 days ago

The upward salary adjustment makes me ponder (but Not Limited to) a couple things:

1. STL was blessed to have Rhonda, a passionate, home-grown and ‚beyond capable’ director to serve in a role that probably demanded a higher salary.

2. They can’t attract the qualified candidate with the current amount. 

3. they’ve identified a candidate and this is part of the negotiation 

4. the Airport Commission, hiring consultants, are upping the number to get the individual (unicorn) that can steer a major rebuild, attract new Airlines, routes, frequencies and revenue. And that doesn’t come cheap. 

Stickig with a lower salary (like College Football programs) telegraphs that the Status Quo is good enough. 

Here‘s hoping they find the right person. I wouldn’t be surprised of it were an international hire. 

2 for sure