What? Klyde Warren Park in Dallas:
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I see now Dallas and Miami are building car bridges over gullies and streets with absurdly tall arches holding them up for no structural reason. But their arches look too fat or goofy wide or something compared to Eero Saarinen’s masterpiece. Currently the only big cities with iconic skylines are SF, NY, Chicago, St. Louis, and Seattle. All the rest you could put in a lineup and I'd probably guess wrong half the time.
Dallas built that ball on stick years ago to define their skyline. But Vancouver also has one, and so does Knoxville and Shanghai. So I guess they wanted that new bridge to a plant a St. Louis-style arch on their skyline to distinguish them from, what, Knoxville? It crosses the Trinity River which, from Google Maps, look strikingly like River Des Peres.
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And now Miami is going to build a new interstate bridge over a couple of city streets as near as I can tell with SIX arches holding it up. They say the ideas is to give Miami a new iconic skyline. Hmmm.
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I get it that skylines need some curves and not just tall office buildings to distinguish themselves. But what do we think of this? Skyline arch theft? Or the more the merrier?
Dallas built that ball on stick years ago to define their skyline. But Vancouver also has one, and so does Knoxville and Shanghai. So I guess they wanted that new bridge to a plant a St. Louis-style arch on their skyline to distinguish them from, what, Knoxville? It crosses the Trinity River which, from Google Maps, look strikingly like River Des Peres.
And now Miami is going to build a new interstate bridge over a couple of city streets as near as I can tell with SIX arches holding it up. They say the ideas is to give Miami a new iconic skyline. Hmmm.
I get it that skylines need some curves and not just tall office buildings to distinguish themselves. But what do we think of this? Skyline arch theft? Or the more the merrier?
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^It's not like we hold a patent on the triumphal arch. That would have expired long before America was someone's wet dream. The more the merrier, as far as I'm concerned.
And honestly, I'd strike Seattle from that list. The Space Needle is their only really internationally famous landmark, and it's not terribly prominent. Very much buried and only visible from a very few angles and locations. I was desperately trying to figure out whether something was filmed in Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, or some other random location the other day. Turns out it was Vancouver, but all three could quite easily pass for one another. Honestly, that's true of most North American cities. We're pretty generic, save for a few standouts. San Francisco, New Orleans . . . sort of New York. Kind of Chicago. But honestly, there's a lot more in common, even there, than different. A city's a city's a city's a city's a city. (Mind you, I like cities, so this isn't an insult. Just an observation.)
And honestly, I'd strike Seattle from that list. The Space Needle is their only really internationally famous landmark, and it's not terribly prominent. Very much buried and only visible from a very few angles and locations. I was desperately trying to figure out whether something was filmed in Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, or some other random location the other day. Turns out it was Vancouver, but all three could quite easily pass for one another. Honestly, that's true of most North American cities. We're pretty generic, save for a few standouts. San Francisco, New Orleans . . . sort of New York. Kind of Chicago. But honestly, there's a lot more in common, even there, than different. A city's a city's a city's a city's a city. (Mind you, I like cities, so this isn't an insult. Just an observation.)
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Yep. Lately, cities have decided that various forms of very expensive downtown bridges supported by soaring cable-stay arches are the way to change their skyline to be like San Francisco I guess. Old beautiful bridges in SF, St. Louis, Pittsburg, NY, Cincinnati, etc. really do need the support structures to cross formidable water obstacles and makes them beautiful. But what's hilarious about these new expensive signature skyline bridges in Dallas, Miami, Boston, etc. is that they are flanked by 1970's flat raised highway-type bridges that remain in use and that handle the bridge load just fine. I'm not sure how much the rest of the country is paying for these vanity project bridges over ditches and streets, but I hear the one in Miami is approaching a billion dollars.
It's something of a hobby of mine to be able to identify city skylines around the world. That's just me, though. The overwhelming majority of people wouldn't have a clue, and very little interest, either.
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From a purely utilitarian perspective you are right. Counterpoint, I would argue though it is worth some money to make things not look god-awful. Whether this is the right particular shade of lipstick to put on the pig is entirely up for debate. The weird archy bridge in Dallas being one I don't particularly like.gary kreie wrote: ↑Jan 18, 2023Yep. Lately, cities have decided that various forms of very expensive downtown bridges supported by soaring cable-stay arches are the way to change their skyline to be like San Francisco I guess. Old beautiful bridges in SF, St. Louis, Pittsburg, NY, Cincinnati, etc. really do need the support structures to cross formidable water obstacles and makes them beautiful. But what's hilarious about these new expensive signature skyline bridges in Dallas, Miami, Boston, etc. is that they are flanked by 1970's flat raised highway-type bridges that remain in use and that handle the bridge load just fine. I'm not sure how much the rest of the country is paying for these vanity project bridges over ditches and streets, but I hear the one in Miami is approaching a billion dolllars.
I will also say that for most cities there Ia a particular angle from which the city is pretty recognizable for those who have even a casual interest. St, Louis is VERY recognizable as long as you get the Arch in there. Without the Arch the number of people who could ID it would drop dramatically even though there are several distinctive markers. Same thing for San Franscico and the Golden Gate Bridge. I find Pittsburgh to be pretty recognizable especially if the yellow bridge is in the shot. I am not sure what sets New Orleans apart though unless you are looking right into Jackson Square. It's also not a particularly important feature of a city beyond a point of pride. Much more important is how people relate to the city on a human scale.
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The Space Needle was stand-out until the building boom of the early 1990's. Then then second building boom recently "buried" it.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jan 18, 2023^It's not like we hold a patent on the triumphal arch. That would have expired long before America was someone's wet dream. The more the merrier, as far as I'm concerned.
And honestly, I'd strike Seattle from that list. The Space Needle is their only really internationally famous landmark, and it's not terribly prominent. Very much buried and only visible from a very few angles and locations. I was desperately trying to figure out whether something was filmed in Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, or some other random location the other day. Turns out it was Vancouver, but all three could quite easily pass for one another. Honestly, that's true of most North American cities. We're pretty generic, save for a few standouts. San Francisco, New Orleans . . . sort of New York. Kind of Chicago. But honestly, there's a lot more in common, even there, than different. A city's a city's a city's a city's a city. (Mind you, I like cities, so this isn't an insult. Just an observation.)
But I'm really confused by the "New Orleans in unique skyline" claim. Not at all unless you count that weird Plaza Tower.
But getting back to the subject at hand, Dallas' skyine is underwhelming for a metro area it's size. But that again just furthers the argument that the DFW area is just sprawl.
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And they dont have the money, the backers, nor a driving force to attend to this badly needed re-do
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2023/01/13/dallas-cant-afford-dream-plan-for-kalita-humphreys-theater/
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2023/01/13/dallas-cant-afford-dream-plan-for-kalita-humphreys-theater/
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I love figuring out movie/TV locations. And I enjoy traveling, so there's often a certain element of nostalgia. (Oh yeah, the bricks in the Freedom trail! I remember that! That kind of thing.) And yeah, I say they're pretty generic for the most part, but that's not to say you can't figure them out, just that they're often not especially famous. Pittsburgh is easy enough from an aerial shot, but it's going to be harder to pick out from a street level shot that never pans up. Even a place as distinct as New York can look pretty darn unremarkable if you're not flying down the Hudson or in a few particularly famous locations. (Times Square, Central Park, crossing a bridge . . . ) If you're in the bottom of the street canyons and don't look up. (Or, gasp, not in Manhattan.) Which is why movies can use a place like us to believably double for New York every now and then. And when you're watching an older movie, and the city has changed dramatically . . . that's when it gets really fun!framer wrote: ↑Jan 18, 2023It's something of a hobby of mine to be able to identify city skylines around the world. That's just me, though. The overwhelming majority of people wouldn't have a clue, and very little interest, either.
I don't mean to say their skyline is unique but rather that they're the rare US city that feels pretty distinct from every other I've been too. Should have been more clear about that. I see the confusion. Their skyline is pretty typical, save right around the French Quarter, or if you're looking at the Huey P Long Bridge. But as Fradweebe wrote:The Space Needle was stand-out until the building boom of the early 1990's. Then then second building boom recently "buried" it.
But I'm really confused by the "New Orleans in unique skyline" claim. Not at all unless you count that weird Plaza Tower.
But getting back to the subject at hand, Dallas' skyine is underwhelming for a metro area it's size. But that again just furthers the argument that the DFW area is just sprawl.
But to get back to the original subject, let Dallas build their arch bridge. The Tokyo Skytree and CN Tower don't take one iota away from Gustave Eiffel's Parisian model. (Speaking of Needles.)
On the other hand, the loss of prominence suffered by Seattle's version might be a good demonstration of why Saarinen's insistence nearby buildings be kept relatively short was . . . prescient. It's sort of nice that our triumphal arch/observation tower has the prominence it does. Wouldn't necessarily mind something taller in town, but . . . keep it a little distance away.
I love it when SP starts using words like "prescient".
Anyway, let's not forget Mussolini's Arch proposed for the (unbuilt) Rome World's Fair of 1942. I guess there's some debate over which design came first, but there's an uncanny similarity to ours.
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Anyway, let's not forget Mussolini's Arch proposed for the (unbuilt) Rome World's Fair of 1942. I guess there's some debate over which design came first, but there's an uncanny similarity to ours.
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The Arch is so monumental, I wonder if some future generation will change what it commemorates -- maybe for some great future American yet unborn. Most Americans don't know what it honors now -- namely the reason we don't speak French. I recall after 911, some folks proposed a giant flag pole on top and an American flag. (I'm surprised current MOLEG has hung a flag beneath it already.). We've already removed Jefferson's name. How long before it is renamed American Indian genocide memorial. Just sayin'.
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Related to this discussion of the Dallas and Miami bridges-- St. Louis made City Nerd's list of Top Bridge Cities in North America.
Only city on the Mississippi to make the list. In the video he mentions Denver and San Antonio for their bridges but discounts them due to the bodies of water they traverse being pretty minimal. I don't recall even seeing the South Platte River when I was in Denver but in the video it looks like far more of a river than the Trinity in Dallas.
Only city on the Mississippi to make the list. In the video he mentions Denver and San Antonio for their bridges but discounts them due to the bodies of water they traverse being pretty minimal. I don't recall even seeing the South Platte River when I was in Denver but in the video it looks like far more of a river than the Trinity in Dallas.
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Can you change what something memorializes. Sort of like carving a new name on a headstone. Seems like that what people were trying to do with the confederate statues but to date it seems like a losing argument. If people actually understood what the Arch represents there would be a vocal crowd demanding its removal because it represents 'the racist & Imperial ambitions of the American white patriarchy and celebrates the pillaging and castigation of the Nation's first peoples.'gary kreie wrote: ↑Jan 19, 2023The Arch is so monumental, I wonder if some future generation will change what it commemorates -- maybe for some great future American yet unborn. Most Americans don't know what it honors now -- namely the reason we don't speak French. I recall after 911, some folks proposed a giant flag pole on top and an American flag. (I'm surprised current MOLEG has hung a flag beneath it already.). We've already removed Jefferson's name. How long before it is renamed American Indian genocide memorial. Just sayin'.
Of course, in a way this has a thread of truth but regardless America would not be the preeminent power in the world without the acquisition of Louisiana.
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You want to start speaking French again? It will take me some time, but I'm conceptually down with it.gary kreie wrote: ↑Jan 19, 2023Most Americans don't know what it honors now -- namely the reason we don't speak French. I recall after 911, some folks proposed a giant flag pole on top and an American flag.
La ville c'est nous!
If it's the paw paw dialect specifically then count me in. Vive le Grav-oy!symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jan 20, 2023You want to start speaking French again? It will take me some time, but I'm conceptually down with it.gary kreie wrote: ↑Jan 19, 2023Most Americans don't know what it honors now -- namely the reason we don't speak French. I recall after 911, some folks proposed a giant flag pole on top and an American flag.
La ville c'est nous!
-RBB
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^Hey, I like local color and I don't want to give Paris control over our French than London (or New York or anyone else) our Anglais.
Here's a (rather confusing) article about local zoning laws in Dallas. The alarming part is that some state-level politicians are apparently trying to take zoning laws out of local hands, and enforce them at the state level. Let's hope Jeff City doesn't get similar ideas.
Texas Lawmakers Look to Take Zoning Changes Out of Dallas’ Hands
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... CSTBVFIGQ8
Texas Lawmakers Look to Take Zoning Changes Out of Dallas’ Hands
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... CSTBVFIGQ8
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This sounds like a positive direction. I hope Jeff City does the same thing. No reason St. Louis should be stopping developers from building new housing.framer wrote: ↑Apr 16, 2024Here's a (rather confusing) article about local zoning laws in Dallas. The alarming part is that some state-level politicians are apparently trying to take zoning laws out of local hands, and enforce them at the state level. Let's hope Jeff City doesn't get similar ideas.
Texas Lawmakers Look to Take Zoning Changes Out of Dallas’ Hands
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... CSTBVFIGQ8
I can't imagine Jeff City taking any action that helps St Louis or urbanist ideas. St. Louis City zoning stops few projects and I don't know of any good proposals that were stymied by zoning concerns. Maybe the county muni's would get more development if they had less control, but it depends on what state control looks like.mjbais1489 wrote: ↑Apr 17, 2024This sounds like a positive direction. I hope Jeff City does the same thing. No reason St. Louis should be stopping developers from building new housing.framer wrote: ↑Apr 16, 2024Here's a (rather confusing) article about local zoning laws in Dallas. The alarming part is that some state-level politicians are apparently trying to take zoning laws out of local hands, and enforce them at the state level. Let's hope Jeff City doesn't get similar ideas.
Texas Lawmakers Look to Take Zoning Changes Out of Dallas’ Hands
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... CSTBVFIGQ8
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Eww, hard no. The less things the doofuses in MOLeg have control over, the better.mjbais1489 wrote: ↑Apr 17, 2024This sounds like a positive direction. I hope Jeff City does the same thing.
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Welcome to Dallas: The City That Just Can’t Stop Expanding
North of Dallas, communities are growing along a highway locals call ‘liquid gold.’ Texas is about ready to invade Oklahoma.
https://archive.ph/6c4lo
North of Dallas, communities are growing along a highway locals call ‘liquid gold.’ Texas is about ready to invade Oklahoma.
https://archive.ph/6c4lo
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I see your photo of Dallas shows that malformed tall arch with cables holding up a car bridge over a — crick. I think Dallas has been trying to think up a symbol that would separate their skyline from all the other lookalike square tower chiclet skylines. Like what St Louis, Seattle, SF, NY, & Chicago have.quincunx wrote:Just get rid of the highway, sheesh.
They have had that geodesic ball on a stick for several years now. Looks kind of dated now, and Knoxville and Vancouver have those too. I think their arch bridge was a new attempt.
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