I'd guess energy costs are a pretty small part of Metrolink's budget, but running one set rather than two cuts that in half. And it'd save wear and tear on the track and wire too, not just the trains. Not a big deal. It's all pretty marginal. I'm sure the biggest reason is making it easier for security to patrol and monitor the trains. Like STLEnginerd says, I don't see a problem here so long as you meet capacity needs, and the joy of train is you can always add more if you need. The biggest issue, to me, is frequency. And gee, wouldn't it be nice if we could use that gate money to hire more operators and maybe a couple of security guards instead? *sigh*
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I am strong proponent of single cars and I am happy that they will be testing them out. In case you have not ridden in trains, lot of violations like loud music, smoking, panhandling (and perhaps serious offenses?) happen on the second car. Single cars would deter these repeat offenders where operator can hear, see and smell things.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 29, 2023What’s the benefit of single cars? Labor is still the same. Maybe wear and tear but they got $200m to replace entire fleet so run these to the ground
I would love to see security personnel riding metro cars rather than being deployed on station platforms.
Given the greater issues with the rear car vs the operator's car and the challenge of patrolling two cars instead of one I think that metro should have gone with open gangway car sets for the new trains instead of completely separated carsstlurbanist wrote: ↑Sep 29, 2023I am strong proponent of single car and I am happy that are testing it out. In case you have not ridden in trains, lot of violations like loud music, smoking, panhandling happens on the second car. It would deter these repeat offenders if it is a single car where operator can hear and smell things.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 29, 2023What’s the benefit of single cars? Labor is still the same. Maybe wear and tear but they got $200m to replace entire fleet so run these to the ground
I would love to see security personnel riding metro cars rather than being deployed on station platforms.
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Metro train and bus money blocked in St. Louis County
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/government-politics/metro-train-and-bus-money-blocked-in-st-louis-county/article_19a30918-6dce-11ee-ae87-37b55208ec72.html#tracking-source=home-the-latestRepublicans on the St. Louis County Council held up funding for the St. Louis region's transit operator this week, saying they want the agency to answer questions about its finances, safety and service.
The Bi-State Development Agency operates buses, the MetroLink light-rail and other transit services in the county, St. Louis and Metro East. It asks St. Louis County every year to fund its share of the budget.
This year Bi-State asked for $128.5 million.
But now three GOP councilmen have rejected the agency's request.
"When you look at the amount of money that is poured into that entity, then consider the level of service, serious questions need to be asked," said Councilman Ernie Trakas of unincorporated St. Louis County on Wednesday. Bi-State's budget request would have advanced at Tuesday's council meeting if a member of the council's Democratic majority, Lisa Clancy, hadn't been absent. She said Wednesday she would have supported the bill.
And it will almost certainly pass eventually — but, before it does, the GOP councilmen want Bi-State to present its budget to the council at a public hearing.
The agency's CEO said he expects the funding bill to be reintroduced and passed.
"Last evening's decision was not what we were hoping for. However, we know it is a step in the process," CEO Taulby Roach said in an emailed statement. "We look forward to an expedited approval later this fall."
Republican Councilman Dennis Hancock of Fenton said he wants to know if any of the county's money will be used for a possible MetroLink expansion. Early proposals include an expansion into North County that could connect to a line in St. Louis.
"I need more information about it. What's the plan? What is this going to do for the people I represent?" Hancock said.
I don't have any faith in Republicans doing something productive but elected officials should be holding Metro to account for how awful their service is at this point.
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I wish they would apply this logic to money for roads/highways.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Oct 19, 2023I don't have any faith in Republicans doing something productive but elected officials should be holding Metro to account for how awful their service is at this point.
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Yeah, i don't see a problem with this in principal. Government bodies should have budget scrutinized. I don't like the insinuation that these lawmakers are placing on Metro without evidence, but yeah getting the budget out there for public review would seem like good governance if it just for the show..
Yeah, to be clear, I'm not advocating for Metro's funding to be cut. But Metro has demonstrated themselves to be impervious to public opinion or rider sentiment over the years. Despite widespread opposition of its customers, Metro has continued to cut and cut and cut service and make decisions like slicing bus routes in half & operating Metrolink with only one car that only increase the inconvenience. Having attended a handful of their intermittent town halls and submitted public comments, I have never seen any evidence that Metro has acted based on those surveys (I'm assuming they just are required to host them because of some federal funding stipulations).
So if City & County politicians can use the funding they provide to Metro to negotiate with the agency, I think that could be a way to demand better. Metro might use their lack of state funding as an excuse to provide bad service, but service is noticeably worse than it was say 10 years ago, despite that the sales tax money from the City/County has never stopped flowing, and there's plenty of other decisions that just stick a finger in the eye of the transit riding public for reasons like "reliability" or to "save money." Change is not going to come from within that agency, they're the ones who have caused this crisis.
So if City & County politicians can use the funding they provide to Metro to negotiate with the agency, I think that could be a way to demand better. Metro might use their lack of state funding as an excuse to provide bad service, but service is noticeably worse than it was say 10 years ago, despite that the sales tax money from the City/County has never stopped flowing, and there's plenty of other decisions that just stick a finger in the eye of the transit riding public for reasons like "reliability" or to "save money." Change is not going to come from within that agency, they're the ones who have caused this crisis.
I don’t love metros leadership but the bus cuts are due to the driver shortage, right? Hard to see what metro can do about that other than what they’ve already done.
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I get to talk to nearly every transit agency in the country as a part of my job. Small county transit systems all the way up to NYC MTA.
95% are still struggling with operator shortages.
St. Louis Metro could probably stand to give their employees a raise, but it would inevitably mean less services.
Automation, raise taxes, or a complete fundamental shift in how the federal government funds transit are the only ways transit returns to pre-pandemic levels.
95% are still struggling with operator shortages.
St. Louis Metro could probably stand to give their employees a raise, but it would inevitably mean less services.
Automation, raise taxes, or a complete fundamental shift in how the federal government funds transit are the only ways transit returns to pre-pandemic levels.
I know that the operator shortage is a nationwide problem but I really just do not agree that this is not Metro's responsibility. I think they have acted cruelly towards their customers and structurally do not care about providing good services. They cobbled together $52 million for turnstiles but show no such interest in figuring out how to improve frequencies (and like yeah i f*cking know federal funding is only for capital expenses before anyone brings that up, most of it wasn't from the feds & $10+million came from private sources).
I don't think they want to get service back to 2020 levels, let alone where it was in 2009.
I don't think they want to get service back to 2020 levels, let alone where it was in 2009.
Not that this is ideal, but wouldn’t a recession cause those vacancies to fill? I would think that if unemployment is 6 percent, there’s no way people won’t be taking those operator jobs.
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I think the problem there is that the people with money are happy to donate for cages but not for improved service. As far as the wealthy class is concerned, bus riders are to be contained, not helped.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Oct 20, 2023I know that the operator shortage is a nationwide problem but I really just do not agree that this is not Metro's responsibility. I think they have acted cruelly towards their customers and structurally do not care about providing good services. They cobbled together $52 million for turnstiles but show no such interest in figuring out how to improve frequencies (and like yeah i f*cking know federal funding is only for capital expenses before anyone brings that up, most of it wasn't from the feds & $10+million came from private sources).
I don't think they want to get service back to 2020 levels, let alone where it was in 2009.
Wouldn't a recession also negatively impact Metro's budget and demand? I'm not sure how the net impact would shake out.dtgwvc wrote: ↑Oct 20, 2023Not that this is ideal, but wouldn’t a recession cause those vacancies to fill? I would think that if unemployment is 6 percent, there’s no way people won’t be taking those operator jobs.
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Metrolink should be automated at this point. This is common in most of the developed world at this point. Then spend the rest of the savings on additional bus riders, frequency, or security at stations.addxb2 wrote: ↑Oct 20, 2023I get to talk to nearly every transit agency in the country as a part of my job. Small county transit systems all the way up to NYC MTA.
95% are still struggling with operator shortages.
St. Louis Metro could probably stand to give their employees a raise, but it would inevitably mean less services.
Automation, raise taxes, or a complete fundamental shift in how the federal government funds transit are the only ways transit returns to pre-pandemic levels.
Removing local politics and structure from the problem, the best solution is to withdraw fixed route services from low-density places.
It’s the same problem and solution framework Amtrak has. Financially and operationally, long distance routes are not an efficient use of trains and operators but politically Amtrak can’t “abandon” districts.
Running busses to Ballwin and Chesterfield make operationally no sense, especially with the regions labor market closer to the core having availability.
It’s not something I can formulate right now, but it’s not inconceivable that the City of St. Louis could provide better coverage and frequencies operating an independent agency. Pay Bi-State a lump sum to operate MetroLink.
It’s the same problem and solution framework Amtrak has. Financially and operationally, long distance routes are not an efficient use of trains and operators but politically Amtrak can’t “abandon” districts.
Running busses to Ballwin and Chesterfield make operationally no sense, especially with the regions labor market closer to the core having availability.
It’s not something I can formulate right now, but it’s not inconceivable that the City of St. Louis could provide better coverage and frequencies operating an independent agency. Pay Bi-State a lump sum to operate MetroLink.
Metro barely even runs services to those places. Ballwin has like 1 bus that runs down Manchester once an hour and 2 weekday rush hour only express services.addxb2 wrote: ↑Oct 20, 2023Running busses to Ballwin and Chesterfield make operationally no sense, especially with the regions labor market closer to the core having availability.
I'd like to see service focus on the city because I think with good bus service frequencies the City could be easy to get around without a car unlike the sprawled out suburbs, but enough people who don't own cars or can't use them for whatever reason need to get out to or from those suburbs.
I've made this point in other threads before, but even really sprawled out Canadian suburbs have good public transportation, like every 10-15 minutes good and people use it. I'm not suggesting we focus on providing frequent services to Chesterfield and Ballwin right now but I 1) don't think it would save that much money to cut services to them completely, considering how little Metro currently provides to those places 2) Don't think it's actually good policy to deprive them of transit altogether.
Somehow Topgolf managed to figure out how to hire 500 people in the same labor market.
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hiring someone to shag balls isnt the same as hiring someone to drive a 40,000 lb bus
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I would imagine Top Golf was able to hire a good amount of SLU students part time.
Metro is back to stopping the blue line at Forest Park-Debalievere approaching 6pm and later. In addition, today the red line train that needs to pick up the stranded blue line passengers was a half length single-car train which made it overcrowded. It's almost like Metro is trying to discourage ridership if you judge them on their scheduling and dispatching
Then they’ve succeeded at their goal. Cutting the blue line to a shorter distance allows them to keep some kind of frequency with fewer operators. Limiting to a single car keeps a crowd and “eyes on the street”, theoretically increasing safety.
I dislike both but MetroLink ridership is not rebounding fast enough. They need to keep finding ways to be creative.
I dislike both but MetroLink ridership is not rebounding fast enough. They need to keep finding ways to be creative.
The no blue line east of Forest Park after 6pm is supposedly for work on the downtown tunnels, according to their blog. It's been a thing for huge stretches of the year since long before COVID/worker shortages.
I thought the one-car pilot deal was supposed to be done by the end of October.
https://www.metrostlouis.org/nextstop/m ... -30-nov-3/
I thought the one-car pilot deal was supposed to be done by the end of October.
https://www.metrostlouis.org/nextstop/m ... -30-nov-3/
This story from Seattle makes me wonder how bad it is here to drive the bus. Those folks aren't paid nearly enough for all they have to deal with.
https://www.king5.com/article/news/loca ... 56c3c97baa
https://www.king5.com/article/news/loca ... 56c3c97baa
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Pretty much nobody gets paid enough for what they have to deal with, that's how Wall Street makes all its money.eee123 wrote: ↑Nov 02, 2023This story from Seattle makes me wonder how bad it is here to drive the bus. Those folks aren't paid nearly enough for all they have to deal with.
https://www.king5.com/article/news/loca ... 56c3c97baa