For what it’s worth, I work in DT Clayton and can tell you it’s still very quiet compared to pre-pandemic. The Starbucks even closes at like 1:00 or 2:00. There’s more life now than a few months ago but still feels dead most of the time.
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At least Clayton has a Starbucks that's convenient to workers.SouthCityJR wrote: ↑Oct 27, 2021For what it’s worth, I work in DT Clayton and can tell you it’s still very quiet compared to pre-pandemic. The Starbucks even closes at like 1:00 or 2:00. There’s more life now than a few months ago but still feels dead most of the time.
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What’s not convenient about the Starbucks in
Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, Ballpark village?
The 3 hotel locations all have their own entrance
Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, Ballpark village?
The 3 hotel locations all have their own entrance
Adl Coater submitted a board bill upping regulations on surface parking lots
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/c ... BBId=13917This Board bill establishes additional requirements, including but not limited to insurance, fencing/gating, lighting and security plans for surface parking lots in the City of St. Louis.
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From where I work, the Hilton, Hyatt and Ballpark Village are not convenient. The small Marriott doesn't offer the ability to order ahead.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Oct 27, 2021What’s not convenient about the Starbucks in
Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, Ballpark village?
The 3 hotel locations all have their own entrance
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The Downtown community has been asking Alderman Coatar to support a parking lot safety ordinance for about 3 years. I believe DNA is involved. I’m told the board bill Coatar FINALLY introduced yesterday is riddled with loopholes that let parking lot operators off the hook. Which makes sense. As I stated earlier, Coatar supports the old CID. And the old CID’s Chair is Eddie Pohrer, who owns St. Louis Parking.quincunx wrote: ↑Oct 28, 2021Adl Coater submitted a board bill upping regulations on surface parking lots
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/c ... BBId=13917This Board bill establishes additional requirements, including but not limited to insurance, fencing/gating, lighting and security plans for surface parking lots in the City of St. Louis.
It’s all corrupt. The same people keep holding Downtown back to maintain the status quo: surface parking lots and Coatar’s quest to become mayor. Sad.
^ Can you elaborate on the loopholes contained in the ordinance? I'm not familiar with the other ordinances referenced in this text (and didn't look them up), but this bill looks relatively straightforward, at least to this layman.
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Here’s one: if you read it, and the exhibit, it states you can have an “automated payment system” and avoid having labor on your lot.
An automated payment system doesn’t provide security. By that standard, when Tishaura updated City meters to a phone app payment she somehow secured all City parking stalls.
Parking operators need entry/exit gates so cars just can’t pull on & off. I’m told if you have this, partiers & thieves avoid your lot. I’m sure it’s not fool-proof.
But c’mon, Coatar says you just need an automated payment system? Seems like a GIANT loophole for his CID Chair buddy Eddie Pohrer.
By the way, how the hell is the Downtown CID Chair a f-ing parking lot operator?!?!
An automated payment system doesn’t provide security. By that standard, when Tishaura updated City meters to a phone app payment she somehow secured all City parking stalls.
Parking operators need entry/exit gates so cars just can’t pull on & off. I’m told if you have this, partiers & thieves avoid your lot. I’m sure it’s not fool-proof.
But c’mon, Coatar says you just need an automated payment system? Seems like a GIANT loophole for his CID Chair buddy Eddie Pohrer.
By the way, how the hell is the Downtown CID Chair a f-ing parking lot operator?!?!
So I was searching on Zillow and Realtor and if we want to change Downtown and make it safer and attract more young professionals we can’t have condos for $40k+ and rents for $500+ that will not attract professionals it all. That’s a red flag 
for the younger professionals. Yes we need affordable housing but at this rate having a lot of available homes at these rates Downtown will stay unattractive and will continue to stay dormant for years to come! I know there’s a lot of people here that love to save the world in an unreal dimension but this is my take. Downtown is our revenue core it shouldn’t be our public assistance - public housing projects! I know this won’t seat well with a lot of people but facts are facts!
Redfin has Downtown market as blue meaning homes stay for over 45 days to sell and is not a seller’s market. I’ve seen a lot of over 90-120 days over. Only major Downtown nationwide that the Burbs are more attractive than the core.
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for the younger professionals. Yes we need affordable housing but at this rate having a lot of available homes at these rates Downtown will stay unattractive and will continue to stay dormant for years to come! I know there’s a lot of people here that love to save the world in an unreal dimension but this is my take. Downtown is our revenue core it shouldn’t be our public assistance - public housing projects! I know this won’t seat well with a lot of people but facts are facts! Redfin has Downtown market as blue meaning homes stay for over 45 days to sell and is not a seller’s market. I’ve seen a lot of over 90-120 days over. Only major Downtown nationwide that the Burbs are more attractive than the core.
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I'm calling BS on that argument. People aren't buying downtown because it's too cheap, they're just choosing to live elsewhere due to the concerns with crime. Once that's taken care of and buyers regain some confidence in downtown's safety, prices will increase.
Ummm not BS! Cheap homes/rents and crime are correlated. You can’t fix crime if the ones committing crimes can super afford living in DT. All STL neighborhoods thriving and that are “safer” cause STL to be honest is not there yet are neighborhoods that attract professionals. CWE, The Grove, Soulard, Historic Benton Park, Lafayatte Square, TGE all are descent neighborhoods and what do they have in common? Inflation in their prices! My home in Illinois is prove of what I’m saying.Laife Fulk wrote:I'm calling BS on that argument. People aren't buying downtown because it's too cheap, they're just choosing to live elsewhere due to the concerns with crime. Once that's taken care of and buyers regain some confidence in downtown's safety, prices will increase.
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You can't just artificially inflate home prices / rents and expect more people to be interested. Nor can you just say "look at Lafayette Square! People love it because it's pricey!" That has the causation backwards - places with higher inflation occur because people are attracted to them.
I agree that it would be nice if the downtown real estate market were hotter and there was more demand, but wanting prices to just increase isn't going to stimulate more demand.
I agree that it would be nice if the downtown real estate market were hotter and there was more demand, but wanting prices to just increase isn't going to stimulate more demand.
I get what you’re saying! But super low prices of a neighborhood are red flags! Crime and low income housing are correlated. What I’m saying is to be able to attract more people the new developments must be luxury focus and those new developments will make the other established residential units more attractive and inflation can do its magic! But we can’t and I know it sounds bad but we can’t continue to develop a Downtown with a blue collar focus! To attract companies we need young professionals with desirables careers. For Example GeoSpacial opening startups near and in DT. Blue collars can’t fill those jobs.Laife Fulk wrote:You can't just artificially inflate home prices / rents and expect more people to be interested. Nor can you just say "look at Lafayette Square! People love it because it's pricey!" That has the causation backwards - places with higher inflation occur because people are attracted to them.
I agree that it would be nice if the downtown real estate market were hotter and there was more demand, but wanting prices to just increase isn't going to stimulate more demand.
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I gotta be honest here, wanting to keep out those who can't afford luxury housing is... well, just google redlining in St. Louis and read up on it for a few hours before responding. You may be intending to make a good point here, but it's not being communicated well.
The solution to St. Louis' and downtown's problems isn't a developer proposing a highrise tower to be filled with million dollar condos. Nor is there a market that would support it downtown right now.
The solution to St. Louis' and downtown's problems isn't a developer proposing a highrise tower to be filled with million dollar condos. Nor is there a market that would support it downtown right now.
I might not be saying it correctly (English after all is my second language lol)… I have read and heard the stories of STL’s problems but we need to get this fixed ASAP! I just can’t understand why STL always falls behind and we’re losing to cities that we should be crushing big time.Laife Fulk wrote:I gotta be honest here, wanting to keep out those who can't afford luxury housing is... well, just google redlining in St. Louis and read up on it for a few hours before responding. You may be intending to make a good point here, but it's not being communicated well.
The solution to St. Louis' and downtown's problems isn't a developer proposing a highrise tower to be filled with million dollar condos. Nor is there a market that would support it downtown right now.
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I don't think a few 40-60k somewhat dated 500-ish sq. ft. studio condos in the CityView development is hurting downtown. Seems relatively in line on a price per square foot basis as other larger condo listings in the area - about $100/sq. ft or so. There appear to be way more "luxury" offerings than affordable offerings. No one appears to be building new affordable housing downtown. If anything, those offerings are decreasing as previous income restricted properties are being retrofitted and relisted at market rate. Downtown's residential population is growing, and it's mostly from people paying $1,000 a month rent or more.
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You can't judge downtown on the rents/condo costs of CityView. That place is god awful. I had a friend who lived there and apparently the entire building is filled with enormous cockroaches and problematic tenants that management does nothing about.
My best friend just moved out finally bought a home but he said just that! Those apartments are ghetto as hell. But again prices let those problematic people move in.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:You can't judge downtown on the rents/condo costs of CityView. That place is god awful. I had a friend who lived there and apparently the entire building is filled with enormous cockroaches and problematic tenants that management does nothing about.
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“Problematic people” lol
JJ have you considered Chesterfield? I think you might love it
JJ have you considered Chesterfield? I think you might love it
Not a suburb person! I used problematic people as it was the word used! I’m a minority and trust me I’m not afraid os using race/ethnicity or whatever if need be! Can’t get shade by pointing at the sun! Truth and reality can’t be hidden andI don’t have the problem white folks have to be labeled racist if they speak their mind! Can’t care less what others think of me!JaneJacobsGhost wrote:“Problematic people” lol
JJ have you considered Chesterfield? I think you might love it
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Look, the point is that you can't blame crime downtown on a few hundred affordable housing units. That is myopic at best and ignorant at worst. Most major cities have low income housing and/or rent control in their urban area. Blaming these 3 mid rises for downtown's crime - both real and perceived - is not based on facts or numbers.
The facts are that most bad actors come from outside of downtown. Period.
The facts are that most bad actors come from outside of downtown. Period.
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GTFOH. You aren’t BLACK. You constantly compare DT StL to other gentrified white Downtowns (mostly Chicago). Your “solution” to solving downtowns problems is to indirectly drive out its black residents. Screw that.JJ Taino wrote: ↑Nov 05, 2021Not a suburb person! I used problematic people as it was the word used! I’m a minority and trust me I’m not afraid os using race/ethnicity or whatever if need be! Can’t get shade by pointing at the sun! Truth and reality can’t be hidden andI don’t have the problem white folks have to be labeled racist if they speak their mind! Can’t care less what others think of me!JaneJacobsGhost wrote:“Problematic people” lol
JJ have you considered Chesterfield? I think you might love it
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How despicable it is of you to suggest that downtown’s “problem” is that housing is ascertainable to a broader cross-section of our community. Particularly as our nation grapples with a housing crisis.
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So much stupid going on in this thread this morning
Best part of living in downtown + west is that it’s racial, economic and any other demo you consider is totally in line with the city as a whole. We have rich down here, middle class and poor and every race in those 3 economic classes while in rest of the city it’s segregated
Affordable housing doesn’t bring “problematic” people to downtown, it brings poor people. Being poor isn’t a crime. You’d never call a guy living in a $4500 a month downtown condo problematic but he’s doing $35,000 a month in marijuana sales (I know this guy)
Best part of living in downtown + west is that it’s racial, economic and any other demo you consider is totally in line with the city as a whole. We have rich down here, middle class and poor and every race in those 3 economic classes while in rest of the city it’s segregated
Affordable housing doesn’t bring “problematic” people to downtown, it brings poor people. Being poor isn’t a crime. You’d never call a guy living in a $4500 a month downtown condo problematic but he’s doing $35,000 a month in marijuana sales (I know this guy)
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Here, here.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Nov 05, 2021So much stupid going on in this thread this morning
Best part of living in downtown + west is that it’s racial, economic and any other demo you consider is totally in line with the city as a whole. We have rich down here, middle class and poor and every race in those 3 economic classes while in rest of the city it’s segregated
Affordable housing doesn’t bring “problematic” people to downtown, it brings poor people. Being poor isn’t a crime. You’d never call a guy living in a $4500 a month downtown condo problematic but he’s doing $35,000 a month in marijuana sales (I know this guy)
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Agreed JJG, and on top of it, his solution just doesn't make financial sense either. So it's built upon some racist belief that crime only comes from a certain element AND a pretty bad understanding of basic economics.