Per the East West Gateway weekly briefings (January 14, 2011, Volume 14, Issue 2)....
January 26: Design Concept Presentation for the Arch Grounds
Framing a Modern Masterpiece -The City The Arch The River: Report to the Community
Lead designer Michael Van Valkenburgh, members of his design team and others, will update the
community on the design concept and discuss next steps for invigorating the Arch grounds and making
connections to downtown St. Louis, the Mississippi River and the Illinois riverbank area, and next steps for
community comments. The presentation will be made Jan. 26, 6 PM, at America’s Center, Ferrara
Theatre, downtown St. Louis. Open to the public; pre-registration is preferred though not required. Go to www.cityarchrivercompetition.org for more details and to register
What do we expect to see Wednesday? I expect a phased plan with exactly what changes we can expect with each phase. Also, a proposed budget and schedule for each phase. I suspect Washington Avenue along Eads Bridge will be retained for a while if not permanently, given the jury's comments. Maybe they should just build over the top of it -- make it a lighted tunnel for cars so people can walk directly from the Arch grounds to Laclede's landing without taking elevators.
Do we think they might address the cobblestones in Phase 1? Or just landscaping.
I wonder if they will have any new information on how this project will be funded? I haven't heard much about major institutions chipping in. Now the Danforth Foundation is dissolved, so they won't be involved.
The day before designs are to be unveiled, Tom Bradley With the National Parks Service tells NewsChannel 5 that the plans for the Arch grounds revitalization project will include a new way to cross the Mississippi River.
The gondolas that were a prominent feature of a design that wasn't from the winning architectural firm Michael Van Valkenburgh Associates are back on the drawing board as part of the redesign.
Bradley says the feature will help the project achieve one of its main goals of incorporating the east side of the river in to the Jefferson Memorial.
^haha just posted this as you were, weird. I don't know how I feel about the gondolas, how realistic and safe are those, especially crossing the Mississippi?
^Beat you to it! I personally love the gondola plan and think it will really bring life to whatever attractions they create on the east side. Like it or not, most people are lazy and won't wont to walk up to the Eads Bridge and cross the river to get to the other side. A sleek, modern gondola, on the other hand, would be an attraction itself.
STL88 wrote:^haha just posted this as you were, weird. I don't know how I feel about the gondolas, how realistic and safe are those, especially crossing the Mississippi?
I would imagine they'll be as safe as they are designed to be. If they can have gondolas go up mountains. I can't imagine a river crossing to be too overly-complex.
1. Put a chair lift across the Mississippi River below the Arch going to the Casino and Fountain Side. Let people really experience the river by hovering over it. My daugher and I rode one up a mountain sightseeing lift in Gatlinburg this spring and she really enjoyed hovering over trees, etc.
2008
I was always pushing for some kind of alpine ski lift style sky ride starting on the West side of 70, going along the river front and possibly crossing the river.
I've learned that if you suggest every conceivable way of doing something, you can come back and claim credit later when someone else has the same idea.
In my concept, your legs would dangle from an open ski-lift chair as you hovered just above the tows and barges on the river. Too scary, I guess, but a flip-flop stand might have done well serving people who had lost theirs at mid-river.
"There has been a lot of discussion in your newspapers and blogs about the gondola," Behnisch said with a smile. "The fact is, it is less expensive than building a bridge."
Is Behnisch paying attention to urbanstl? If so, cool; maybe they'll look here for the public opinions they seek and not the STLToday commentors...sheesh. Looking forward to the presenation tonight, hope to see some of you there!
Why would anyone want to ride a gondola to East St Louis just to get robbed? Better take a gun.
I assume they will market this to tourists? I can't imagine anyone actually using it as a form of mass transit just to get across to the other side. Unless they only charge a buck or two, which I suspect they won't. Probably something like $15.
Its ceratinly for tourists. They want to do more on the east side, which seems to involve a park or some form of. Now people from out in the county or out of town could park their car and get to both sides of the river without having to go back to their cars. Seems like they're basically going to create a larger park, with half in STL and half in Illinois.
"There has been a lot of discussion in your newspapers and blogs about the gondola," Behnisch said with a smile. "The fact is, it is less expensive than building a bridge."
Bah! It's also less useful. Who will walk their dog or ride their bike across the river by gondola? Especially if it costs money.
It is not mass transit, it is an attraction at a National Park. Lots of people will come the the Arch, see the museum, walk the grounds, come down to the rivers edge, and they will want to go and see what is on the other side. When they find out they can ride a tram across the Might Mississippi and take pictures of the Arch, they will love it!
I think it is an awesome idea, and of course it can not be judged until we see the entire plan.
One thing a gondola will do is provide a virtual connection between the two banks of the Mississippi. While I wish it was a true physical connection (ie: side bridge along the Eads Bridge), I've got to credit them with making the two sides of the river more like one.
"There has been a lot of discussion in your newspapers and blogs about the gondola," Behnisch said with a smile. "The fact is, it is less expensive than building a bridge."
Bah! It's also less useful. Who will walk their dog or ride their bike across the river by gondola? Especially if it costs money.
It's a linear ferris wheel, not a bridge.
You are aware that Eads Bridge is walkable and very nearby.
The Manfredi/Weiss bridge clearly shows a wide gap between the Poplar Street Bridge and the foot bridge. I assume the "walking next to an interstate highway" experience would be similar to walking along Oakland Avenue with I-64 on the other side of a median. It's not a big deal at all, and certainly not the same as a sidewalk on the actual interstate.
I like the gondola idea. It's more original than a ferris wheel which seems to be in every other city throughout the world. The ferris wheel idea is so outdated. The preception of the East Side and its riverfront is likely to change over time, especially with a new park and a fun way to cross the river. I've been riding my bike across the bridge into East St. Louis for a while now and enjoy exploring the riverfront on the east side.
Personally, I'd like to see this project sponsored and funded by Lumiere and Casino Queen so we don't have to hear everyone cry about taxpayers money being used.
I think a gondola or a pedestrian bridge would have the same effect along the Poplar St. bridge. They both would get people to the south side of the park which has no activity whatsoever. It would also encourage businesses/people to invest in Chouteau's landing if there's new activity. If you want something walkable with a bike path, you have Eads bridge with very little traffic that can be revitalized.
You can argue which is better than the other or more asthetically appealing. But I think MVVA has the expertise to make both good pieces of architecture. And I don't think either would ruin the view of downtown but improve it. I think the cheaper option (whichever that ends up being) would still be very good along Poplar.
The gondolas are an important distinct visual connection to the east side. They will appeal to a segment of visitors. I would likely even ride the gondola instead of the Arch tram (canabalizing revenue maybe?). It's not a solution for downtown residents and it doesn't connect the city to the park or river, but it does have an important function. Let's hope that sidewalks and streets aren't forgotten.
An immediate emphasis on Eads as a multimodal structure vital to the region as it already supports auto, buses and the metrolink to connect the region. At them same time it has to be seen as an opening to both the Arch Grounds and the Landing. Right now is is like a big brick fortress who has seen its better day. Instead, open up some arches between the Arch Grounds and Landing and emphasize a shared roadway/pedesterian access - I would even try to incorporate the north trestle into the scheme.
At the same time, The Gondola crealy creates a unique experience as well as a direct connection to the East side of the park. Much more then a ferry would do considering the restraints of a casino & grain terminal or even improved pedestarian access on Eads or Poplar Street Bridge. Personally, I would rather have any paddle wheels going up an down the Big Muddry rather then a short trip across it.
Finally, a long term plan to attach a bike/pedestarian path to Poplar Street Bridge and connect to the greenway south of the Arch Grounds should be explored but not take away from immediate improvements. In other words, I think it could wait if you address Eads and put forth a Gondala plan. However, I would love to see the upper deck of the railroad bridge just below Poplar street bridge rebuilt as the preferred connection. Talk about some great and unique views as well as an experience as a one of those huge coal trains rumbles under your feet. Once again, embrace the river, commerce and its history. Poplar Street doesn't offer much beyond pilings/columns to attached something too.
