Mo 370

Mo 364



Should Mo 370 become Interstate 370?

When Mo 364 is finished in the next decade, should it turn into Interstate 364? Does it matter?



Also has anyone heard anything about this "avenue of saints" - an interstate that links St. Louis with St. Paul, Mn.



Any other pie in the sky - yet talked about highway ideas in the metro area (besides the new outer belt in IL)?



I know IL spent a LOT of money purchasing ROW and building bridges for US 50 to Carlyle. Any plans here?

I've always been confused as to why there was no highway system that took you from St. Louis to the Twin Cities. It seems a bit silly, if you ask me. I think a highway that would go from St. Louis, through Des Moines would make a lot of sense.



And to be an interstate, you have to go through more than one state. Isn't that why they call it 'interstate'? I would guess that is why 370 and 364 aren't that. 270 goes to Illinois, so does 255.

trent wrote:And to be an interstate, you have to go through more than one state. Isn't that why they call it 'interstate'? I would guess that is why 370 and 364 aren't that. 270 goes to Illinois, so does 255.

That sounds logical to me, but Interstate 170 is entirely within Missouri.



I'm not sure what the actual criteria is- I'm guessing funding has much to do with the official designation. That said, I'm pretty sure federal dollars were used to build Highways 364 and 370. I'm not sure that it matters, but I'd like to know why these highways aren't designated as interstates.

trent wrote:And to be an interstate, you have to go through more than one state. Isn't that why they call it 'interstate'? I would guess that is why 370 and 364 aren't that. 270 goes to Illinois, so does 255.

This isn't exactly correct. OUR two digit highways (70, 44, 55, 64) DO all go through more than one state. The three digit highways only correspond to the two digit they touch - 270 and 170 are "based" around 70. There is no requirement to be in multiple states for interstates.** Hence 170 is only in one state- Missouri 255 around 55, 370 could be based on 70 and 364 could correspond to interstate 64. . The first digit - the "2" in "270" has to do with its "function" Three digit highways that begin with an even number, 270 or 255 - go AROUND a city. Ones that start with an odd number- like 170 - go into a city or business district. 170 supposedly goes INTO Clayton.



A highway from St. Louis to Des Moines would make a lot of sense since I-35 already goes from Des Moines to the twin cities - basically accomplishing the same thing.



My real question was more along the lines of the long range transportation plan in the region.

Also the perception that more interstates is better or worse. Obviously big cities have lots of interstates, but would changing Mo370 into Interstate 370 etc, besides the small amount of extra federal funding, would that have any other - less obvious effects. Highways are highways - but are INTERSTATE designations better than non-interstate designations - for out-of-towner, trucks or city perception of itself?



Another thought I had was about 255 extending to Alton - its Interstate 255 until it hits 270, then it turns into IL 255, shouldn't they just change it into Interstate 255 the whole way....



** Example: Interstate 4 is entirely in the state of FL. As long as they are in the interstate system ? meaning only it meets the requirements ? they are interstates, no connotation of multiple states, though the VAST majority do.

All that is necessary to be given an interstate designation is to qualify and be approved by the federal government. There is no requirement of going though more than one state. See I-99, I-97, I-4, I-12, I-27, I-37, I-88(IL).



2-digit interstates are the primary highways. Odd go north-south; even, east-west. 3-digit interstates are numbered according a parent 2-digit interstate. Odd first digits are supposed to be spurs; even, loops or bypasses. Lots of exeptions here too: see I-476(PA), I-238.



I-70 is the parent to I-170 and I-270

MO-370 is built to interstate standards. Supposedly, ASSHTO gave permission to Missouri to designate the highway as I-870 as the highway serves as a bypass. Missouri disagreed, however, and since they are reserving that number for a Columbia loop, they decided to stay with MO-370.



I-55 is the parent to I-255

IL-255, though built to interstate standards, has not been approved under the interstate program. No word on whether the highway will be upgraded in the future.



I-44 used to be the parent of I-244 here in St. Louis until it became renamed I-270.



I-64 is the "parent" to MO-364

Will probably not be given interstate status until parent and child are united. Even then, the number could cause conflicts the same way MO-370 did.



The "Avenue of the Saints," the highway between St. Louis and the Twin Cities has been mostly completed. It is not planned to become an interstate anytime in the near future. Only a short stretch of 2-lane highway remains in Missouri just shy of the Iowa border. The "Avenue of the Saints" refers to the highway between here and Mason City, IA: US-61 to MO-27 which becomes IA-27 which runs into I-35 at Mason City.



For all sorts of roadgeek trivia, see Kurumi's site.

Mill204 wrote:MO-370 is built to interstate standards. Supposedly, ASSHTO gave permission to Missouri to designate the highway as I-870 as the highway serves as a bypass. Missouri disagreed, however, and since they are reserving that number for a Columbia loop, they decided to stay with MO-370.

That's interesting, and it makes sense to me. 270 and 370 combine to form a bypass around Interstate 70, between Troy, Ill. and St. Peters. Even-numbered Interstates are loops or bypasses, and in addition to 270, Interstates 470 and 670 run through Kansas City.



I remember some discussion of a loop around Columbia, the reason that Missouri declined to designate Highway 370 as an interstate. As someone that loves Columbia almost as much as Saint Louis, I shudder at the thought of a bypass around the city, even though Interstate 70 in and around Columbia isn't the greatest.



Since there are exceptions to the rule, as you pointed out, I'm surprised Missouri wasn't granted permission to designate 370 as an interstate without changing the number.

Another pet peeve of mine: I-170. It should ALWAYS be known as the Innerbelt. It's like trying to change Highway 40 to I-64. This is part of our local lingo! Long live the Innerbelt and Farty!

^ I usually refer to it as the Innerbelt. It's my favorite highway in the area.

The avenue of the saints is mostly complete in Minnesota and Iowa, Missouri is lagging way behind...



THe Missouri portion will be Hwy 40 out to St. Charles County and then up what is now Hwy 61 up to the Iowa border...



THis is why they have been rebuilding 40 out through O'Fallon as a limited access highway with overpasses...they are doing the same thing up through Hannibal on 61

I drove to Carlyle, IL today on highway 50 from Lebanon -> they have most of it as a one lane in each direction highway - but EVERY bridge has an exact copy right next to it - as if they wanted to have a divided highway but didn't. There are 3 parts where it goes into a divided highway - but never much more than a mile at each section. Anyone know any plans for this - i couldn't find anything online.



Do you think renaming Mo 370 into interstate 870 <the> would really change anything. Like would STL as a region be looked at as a better region if they had 2 more interstates <364>.......

^ I've heard, but can't confirm, that the reason for the duplicate bridges along US 50 out to Carlyle, IL was that Carlyle Lake was expected to draw a lot more traffic from the St. Louis area than it has.



^^ The Avenue of the Saints has been completed is Iowa and Minnesota. Minnesota because there was nothing to construct, routed along I-35; Iowa's just recently completed their portion to expressway standards with very small freeway segments around some towns. Missouri is supposed to finish their last segment to expressway standards by 2008 - it's not a very long segment that they have left. Either way, if you're driving to the Twin Cities I highly recommend taking this route as it is very quick. DO NOT follow the directions given by ANY internet map site (<550 miles and 9hrs vs 650+ miles and 11hrs). Just make sure you have plenty of gas travelling through Iowa.



^^^ I think Missouri decided it just didn't matter if it was officially an interstate or not and didn't fight for the number. I don't think the funding changed at all, just the program.

Mill204 wrote:^ I've heard, but can't confirm, that the reason for the duplicate bridges along US 50 out to Carlyle, IL was that Carlyle Lake was expected to draw a lot more traffic from the St. Louis area than it has.

My parents have their boat over there - its not exactly a HUGE draw - but I have seen a large increase there in the past 15 years... its soo much nicer a lake than lake of the ozarks - and a LOT closer....

Mill204 wrote:^^ The Avenue of the Saints has been completed is Iowa and Minnesota. Minnesota because there was nothing to construct, routed along I-35; Iowa's just recently completed their portion to expressway standards with very small freeway segments around some towns. Missouri is supposed to finish their last segment to expressway standards by 2008 - it's not a very long segment that they have left. Either way, if you're driving to the Twin Cities I highly recommend taking this route as it is very quick. DO NOT follow the directions given by ANY internet map site (<550 miles and 9hrs vs 650+ miles and 11hrs). Just make sure you have plenty of gas travelling through Iowa.

Are there any plans to designate it as an interstate I 53 maybe once MO gets it finished. -- will it even be interstate standards the whole way - or just a standard access no stoplight divided highway? If its not marked as an interstate - on maps it should still show up as a principal highway.. and mapquest and other sites should automatically give those directions (I would hope)...

The avenue of the Saints will be designated an interstate as soon as all segments are completed...this was always the plan. I used to work for US Senator who did a lot of work on the funding for this project.



It will go from downtown St. Louis (Hwy 40) out to where 61 splits off and travel up what is now Hwy 61 tot he Iowa border and then connect with the Iowa portion...



MODOT mismanaged some of the funds for this project whihc put MIssouri well behind the other states. It is not a hot button issue in STL, but go to some farm bureau meetings in Northeast MO and it is a huge issue...their highway has been torn up for years with all kinds of promises from MODOT. It appears that they are finally back on track, but it has been a long time coming.

IL 255 will likely never become I-255, even if it is being built to interstate standards, since it's a spur and not a true loop. I guess they could build it to come completely around Alton, back across the Mississippi and have it meet I-70 in St. Charles somewhere... Or if they upgraded U.S. 61 to I-53, it could go through Jersey County and become I-253. How about it, guys? Imagine the new development possibilities! "Only 45 minutes from Alton! Homes starting in the 200s!" We'd open up whole new flood plains for the creation of glorious strip malls!

mophipsi wrote:The avenue of the Saints will be designated an interstate as soon as all segments are completed...this was always the plan. I used to work for US Senator who did a lot of work on the funding for this project.

Perhaps that was the original plan, but the Avenue of the Saints will never become an interstate as it has not and is not being built to interstate standards. It will remain US-61, becoming a 4 lane expressway along its entire length from Wentzville to the Iowa border with a few freeway segments near sizable towns and cities. Upon completetion of the last 15 miles near the Iowa border, there will still be hundreds of at-grade intersections remaining. See this MoDOT blurb and notice the absence of the word "interstate".

JMedwick wrote:As someone who took the Avenue of the Saints fairly reguarly between 2000 and 2005, the progress Iowa made was impressive. They worked quickly and made up alot of ground to get the project done, but Missouri is way behind. The saddest thing about seeing the whole project become four lanes is the loss of the little toll booth over the Des Moines River at the Missouri-Iowa boarder. Just a great little roadside stop. very quaint.

As a regular driver of the Avenue for the last 7 years that old man who worked the toll booth was my highlight of the trip. The new bridge shoots you over the river so fast you don't even notice it anymore. I miss a lot of the quirks of the old highway but the new one is a lot safer and quicker. The drive used to take me about 10+ hours and now its around 8.5 with the last hour being the never ending western sprawl of Chuckster county.

Mill204 wrote:


^^ The Avenue of the Saints has been completed is Iowa and Minnesota. Minnesota because there was nothing to construct, routed along I-35; Iowa's just recently completed their portion to expressway standards with very small freeway segments around some towns. Missouri is supposed to finish their last segment to expressway standards by 2008 - it's not a very long segment that they have left. Either way, if you're driving to the Twin Cities I highly recommend taking this route as it is very quick. DO NOT follow the directions given by ANY internet map site (<550 miles and 9hrs vs 650+ miles and 11hrs). Just make sure you have plenty of gas travelling through Iowa.

I'm planning on taking this route up to the Twin Cities next week. I usually drive through the Quad Cities and stop there since I grew up there but I'm all about the gas PLUS I wanted to see if it would save me any time (I know it will save miles). Does the highway stop through any small towns in Missouri? Is the drive relatively flat? (I try to avoid scenic overlooks and such -- motion sickness.)

So, this is going to connect with an interstate in Iowa?



That will connect to St. Paul? I do know that 61 travels all the way up to outside St. Paul passing Bloomington and MSP Int'l Arpt



It will be expressway status all the way from the interchange with I-70 up until where?



Good connection to Minn/St. Paul.



It sort of reminds me of a highway that is being built from Birmingham to Memphis-- currently titled Corridor X, when completed (whenever that'll be because of AL DOT) it'll be titled I-22. Hwy 61 reminds me of this because they are connecting two fairly main cities that should have connected in the first place but never where, through the use of expressway.



How long until this done?

^

From I-70, US 61 is currently an expressway to Canton, MO. From Canton to just south of Wayland, MO, is the only two lane section left (approximately 20 miles, which is currently being widened). At this point, US 61 is routed east to Keokuk, IA. However, there's a new expressway heading north into Iowa, crossing the Des Moines River. This is the Avenue of the Saints into Iowa on SR 27 the entire way to I-35 near Mason City. (this road is also parts of US 218, I-380, and US 18). From Mason City, IA, I-35 is the remaining part of Avenue of the Saints into St. Paul.

coachjw, for the most part, the trip is very flat. Big cities between here and Minneapolis: Hannibal, Keokuk (short sidetrip), Cedar Rapids, Waterloo. No scenic overlooks, but if I remember correctly, I thought the stretch near Canton was pretty cool since the road runs adjacent to the inside edge of the Mississippi river bluffs.



Interstate 53, we shall probably never know you.

Thanks, Mill! I should be okay once I hook up with Hwy 218 in Iowa City.

Once I-64 is completed to the interchange with I-70, does anyone know what will happen with all of the exit numbers??



Two-digit interstates are numbered from west to east and south to north, and in Missouri, 64 starts from the west. Will all exits from I-70 to the Mississippi river have to be renumbered?? That might get somewhat confusing for many different reasons...

^Exit numbers should stay the same. This was already taken into account. The O'Fallon (Hwy. K) exit is #9 (about 9 miles from I-70), and that's where it currently becomes I-64.