DRIVING at its HIGHEST SINCE 2008

dbInSouthCity · PostAug 30, 2014#12014-08-30T22:38+00:00

Ive always said that driving will pick up as 22-35 age group gets free of student debt and can afford cars again....looks like the tide has turned..

New figures released by the U.S. Department of Transportation show that Americans are driving more miles than they did six years ago.

The figures triggered a call for more investment in heavily used highways.

“More people driving means our economy is picking up speed,” according to Anthony Foxx, the U.S. secretary of transportation. “It also means we need to increase our investment in transportation to meet this demand.”

In his statement, Foxx urged Congress to pass the Grow America Act.

According to the agency’s monthly report tracking “Traffic Volume Trends,” U.S. motorists collectively traveled 261.7 billion vehicle-miles in June 2014.

The largest year-over-year spike in driving was in the South Atlantic region, according to the Department of Transportation. Collectively, the eight states from Delaware to Florida witnessed a 2 percent increase in vehicle miles driven that month, compared with June 2013

stlhistory · PostAug 31, 2014#22014-08-31T01:48+00:00

Well considering 2008/2009 was the bottom of a very deep recession, I would imagine that driving miles would increase since then. How about compared to 2004 or 1999?

wabash · PostAug 31, 2014#32014-08-31T03:11+00:00

^Per capita vehicle miles traveled is lower today than it was in 1999, 2004, and 2008.

urban_dilettante · PostAug 31, 2014#42014-08-31T17:09+00:00

i'd rather see stats from an organization that doesn't have a vested interest in highway funding. a little elaboration on "Americans are driving more miles" would be nice as well. so… fewer Americans are driving but the ones that are are driving more miles? that doesn't automatically translate to "quick, build more highways!!!"

dbInSouthCity · PostAug 31, 2014#52014-08-31T17:41+00:00

We shouldn't build more highways, we should fix the existing ones before it costs twice as much to fix it

downtown2007 · PostAug 31, 2014#62014-08-31T19:24+00:00

Driving is down significantly since 2000. Any small gains are just a fraction of what it has lost.

Ebsy · PostAug 31, 2014#72014-08-31T21:08+00:00

A great way to fund the repair of the highways and bridges would be to levy taxes on the trucking companies that do the most damage to said highways and bridges. But wait, that would make sense.

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 01, 2014#82014-09-01T03:07+00:00

Because they wouldn't pass that on customers? Who would then price it in the cost of the product? And can we stop pretending like we don't benefit from the trucking industry that carries 95% of the stuff we buy daily....

Ebsy · PostSep 01, 2014#92014-09-01T03:17+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote:Because they wouldn't pass that on customers? Who would then price it in the cost of the product? And can we stop pretending like we don't benefit from the trucking industry that carries 95% of the stuff we buy daily....

Stop making idle threats for the trucking industry. No one bought them when you rolled them out again and again in the sales tax thread.

urban_dilettante · PostSep 01, 2014#102014-09-01T03:42+00:00

we particularly benefit from the trucks that don't start or end their journeys in Missouri, which is more than half.

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 01, 2014#112014-09-01T14:11+00:00

Ebsy wrote:
dbInSouthCity wrote:Because they wouldn't pass that on customers? Who would then price it in the cost of the product? And can we stop pretending like we don't benefit from the trucking industry that carries 95% of the stuff we buy daily....
Stop making idle threats for the trucking industry. No one bought them when you rolled them out again and again in the sales tax thread.

I think you brought up the trucking industry champ

PostSep 01, 2014#122014-09-01T14:13+00:00

urban_dilettante wrote:we particularly benefit from the trucks that don't start or end their journeys in Missouri, which is more than half.

All still pay a gas tax in MO even if they don't get gas in MO
We can raise the gas tax on trucks by a dollar if we want to feel all warm and fuzzy inside but we will still be paying for it at the end

Ebsy · PostSep 01, 2014#132014-09-01T18:43+00:00

You always incessantly try to convince people on this forum that the trucking industry does not care if a tax is levied on them, despite the fact they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to have the tax levied on everyone but them. That if we raise the gas tax that the world will end because they might pass on some of the cost to consumers. You just supported an effort to levy the cost directly on consumers, so why do you even care if it is indirectly levied on consumers? Also, people like you have insisted the world will end every time a tax is placed on business. Somehow, they normally end up with profits and a grossly overpaid Chief Executive.

Also, "You brought is up." Isn't a logicak argument.

terence d · PostSep 02, 2014#142014-09-02T18:10+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote:All still pay a gas tax in MO even if they don't get gas in MO

Really??? How does that work?

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 02, 2014#152014-09-02T18:16+00:00

^
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... _Agreement

PostSep 02, 2014#162014-09-02T18:16+00:00

Ebsy wrote:You always incessantly try to convince people on this forum that the trucking industry does not care if a tax is levied on them, despite the fact they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to have the tax levied on everyone but them. That if we raise the gas tax that the world will end because they might pass on some of the cost to consumers. You just supported an effort to levy the cost directly on consumers, so why do you even care if it is indirectly levied on consumers? Also, people like you have insisted the world will end every time a tax is placed on business. Somehow, they normally end up with profits and a grossly overpaid Chief Executive.

Also, "You brought is up." Isn't a logicak argument.

what in the world are you talking about....

that whole comment reminds me of the "Jump to Conclusion" mat from office space or a quote from Billy Madison.

what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

STLEnginerd · PostSep 02, 2014#172014-09-02T19:16+00:00

I feel like we had this arguement already...

Nothing new has been added except an observation that driving has increased over recent years which is an obvious byproduct of a improving economy. It by no means changes anyone's thinking on Amendment 7 because it is not revelatory in any way. I certainly don't dispute that more people a driving further than a year ago.

Yes cars are still relevant to our economy, and whether we like it or not we will still need highways for the foreseeable future.

dblnSouthCity:

Because they wouldn't pass that on customers? Who would then price it in the cost of the product? And can we stop pretending like we don't benefit from the trucking industry that carries 95% of the stuff we buy daily....

^Its illogical to say gas tax will be passed to consumers anyway so why not tax consumers directly for roads. It ignores the very mechanism you cite that fairly divides tax revenue by state. A gas tax DOES get passed on to users in whichever state was driven in, a sales tax DOES NOT. A sales tax would not capture significant additional revenue from pass thru traffic. That's the simple fact of it and nothing said here changes that.

That said I don't know if this was intended as a forum to rehash old arguments about the failed Amendment 7. Maybe this should be looked at as a forum to discuss... Why people are driving more and what factors play a role?, How driving will trend into the future given various factors?, Ways/policies to promote less driving? There are several old forums nearly dedicated to arguments for and against the proposed sales tax its tiring to have another one.

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 02, 2014#182014-09-02T19:31+00:00

STLEnginerd wrote: Maybe this should be looked at as a forum to discuss... Why people are driving more and what factors play a role?, How driving will trend into the future given various factors?, Ways/policies to promote less driving?

that was the main point of this thread, as i indicated that i think people are/wil drive more as the age group 25-34 is now starting to get out of student loan debt and can afford cars again....it was in the first post

roger wyoming II · PostSep 02, 2014#192014-09-02T19:38+00:00

^ your post didn't show that though... there might be an increase in vmt per capita for young people, but let's see some evidence.

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 02, 2014#202014-09-02T19:45+00:00

^
http://www.autonews.com/section/ussales

US Sales up 9% in July, up 5% for the year

http://www.autonews.com/article/2014082 ... ts-predict

roger wyoming II · PostSep 02, 2014#212014-09-02T19:55+00:00

^ This doesn't show anything about young people driving more though per person.... just b/c car sales are up and overall miles are increasing doesn't mean that a specific group of people are driving more than in the past. And remember, what we're looking at with vmt per capita is similar to the release of jobs numbers... a growth of 110,000 US jobs in 2014 is not as impressive as say 105,000 US jobs in 2008. We have a hell of a lot more people in the US now than in 2008 and I believe in particular a lot more of the 20-35 yr. olds.

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 02, 2014#222014-09-02T20:03+00:00

Actually 105,000 jobs in 2008 is less impressive then 110,000 in 2014 since in that time frame the US pop increase 4% and from 105k to 110k is 4.75%

wabash · PostSep 02, 2014#232014-09-02T20:05+00:00

^Interesting hypothesis. Student debt is at an all-time high right now. Yes, people will pay that off over time. But in general young, driving aged people are more indebted than ever. Is there any evidence that the age group you mention is less indebted today than it was 3, 5, or 10 years ago?

As for people driving more, it's not happening. People are driving less, but there are more people. Hence the overall number creeping up for the first time in years. So far this year overall vehicle miles traveled has increased .4% over last year. Despite being a small change, that's notable because a year-over-year increase hasn't happened since '08. But the U.S. population growth rate is about .7%, so per capita vehicle miles traveled is still on the decline, and significantly below where it was pre-recession.

Basically people are driving less, but because there are more people the roads are getting used a little more.

PostSep 02, 2014#242014-09-02T20:08+00:00

Obviously the title of the thread is mistaken. There is no metric by which driving is at its "highest" since 200 -. either over all or per capita.

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 02, 2014#252014-09-02T20:09+00:00

^ which is why i stated on the first page, we dont need to expand the system but we do need to keep up the existing system and right now we aren't doing that... we will never has LESS people on the roads driving, it will only go up (yes slowly) but it will still go up. So while i dont think we need extra lanes on 70 thru our region, we still need to invest a large chuck to rebuild it...maintenance is only a band-aid.