Yes, a forum full of urbanists pushing to expand the obsolete US highway system method of transportation that is the lifeline to the bane that is sprawl........... IL is far to savvy of a state to waste their funds on such a project. That state is actually forward thinking.

I-24 could come into the metro area via present-day IL 15, minimizing the need to build a completely new highway. However, whether I-24 would stop at I-255 or continue east towards the Poplar Street Bridge would be controversial. That's because continuing on to the PSB would slice East St. Louis with yet another highway, as shown in this old US 460 proposal.

~125 miles from I-24 to St. Louis along I-57 and I-64

~110-115 miles from I-24 to St. Louis on new I-24 alignment



minimum $2.5 billion to save less than 10 minutes travel time with the only economic benefit likely going to McDonald's makes this project near worthless.



This from a frequent traveler of highways between St. Louis and Atlanta.

Urban Elitist wrote:Yes, a forum full of urbanists pushing to expand the obsolete US highway system method of transportation that is the lifeline to the bane that is sprawl........... IL is far to savvy of a state to waste their funds on such a project. That state is actually forward thinking.

I think you underestimate the highway system (because you are from Missouri and we know how Missouri treats its highways) and vastly OVER estimate how great the IL state government is. THey do a lot of stupid things when it comes to highways and urban planing, but becuase most of their development isn't around STL - we tend not to see it.

tbspqr wrote:I think you underestimate the highway system (because you are from Missouri and we know how Missouri treats its highways) and vastly OVER estimate how great the IL state government is. THey do a lot of stupid things when it comes to highways and urban planing, but becuase most of their development isn't around STL - we tend not to see it.

Fair enough that could all be true.



Sorry for the snappy response, but anytime is see the phraes "extend/expand a highway" and "spur development" in the same paragraph, my BS alarm starts going off.

JMedwick is right. An extended highway could foster an economic boost via the warehousing/distributing business, which isn't a bad thing. Indy, Columbus and far western burbs of Chicago are stealing all the business now. I know warehouses look ugly and they take up a ton of land, but jobs, jobs and more jobs are never a bad thing for the future of a metro.

This route would be suitable if it were connected to I-55 north of Cape Girardeau. But, even then, what's the point of doing that?



See here:



http://maps.google.com/maps?f=l&hl=en&q ... 84277&om=0

^An extension of I-24 certainly doesn't look like a priority (nor does the Gateway Connector, IMHO). If IDOT is anxious to expand the Interstate system, a more direct route from St. Louis to Minneapolis would be needed.



IL 255 is already headed towards US 67 in Godfrey. Heading further north could link upto I-72 west of Jacksonville. But since MODOT already four-laned US 61 to Hannibal, the Avenue of the Saints would more likely head out of St. Louis via I-64/US 40 to US 61. However, since I-172 already heads north of Quincy, and a new I-72 bridge is in Hannibal, the Avenue of the Saints could cross over to Illinois at Hannibal. But if extending I-172 further north, where then to cross over to Iowa? My pick would be just southwest of Burlington. From there, you want to line up with I-380 in Iowa City, which then could link over to I-35 in Mason City, making the final connection to Minneapolis-St. Paul via existing I-35.

ArchMadness wrote:JMedwick is right. An extended highway could foster an economic boost via the warehousing/distributing business, which isn't a bad thing. Indy, Columbus and far western burbs of Chicago are stealing all the business now. I know warehouses look ugly and they take up a ton of land, but jobs, jobs and more jobs are never a bad thing for the future of a metro.

Great. More cheap, precast, concrete-box warehouse buildings like the ones along I-170 .... just what we need!



Sorry for being sassy, but if we're going to attract industry, let's be strategic about it. Warehousing jobs are mostly low-skill and lower paying. We should continue to focus on higher-skill, higher-education jobs (like the biotech initiatives), which have the chance to bring greater average income and education, as well as the related industries that will need to follow to support them.

Why can't we get both?



I think a 24 ext to Ill 3 and 255 would be the best route for that idea.

I don’t want to get in on the socioeconomic benefits and educational deficits of our society as a whole, but this project could be done BY Illinois a lot cheaper and serve a lot of people by -

instead of going so far north to Columbia, go north west and make a new river crossing and connect with I - 55 in Jeff Co. Later - if deemed needed - you could continue from the intersection with I 57 up to the gateway connector (which isn't needed but at this point it MORE needed than an extended I 24). Make my new fictitious bridge over the Mississippi "I - 324" and then Jeff co as well as everyone else could take I - 55 to the new bridge on I - 324, go to I 24, north to the gateway connector (I 455) then anywhere they want. Heck you could make I 324 into 424 and connect middle Jefferson County with Pacific in Franklin County and I - 44 to make another southern bypass.



- sorry - I could dream forever - but really if this is going to be done, it needs to serve people who are currently underserved, and Columbia, IL (where they have 255 already and will probably get the Gateway Connector as well) is already well served.

Tysalpha wrote:

ArchMadness wrote:JMedwick is right. An extended highway could foster an economic boost via the warehousing/distributing business, which isn't a bad thing. Indy, Columbus and far western burbs of Chicago are stealing all the business now. I know warehouses look ugly and they take up a ton of land, but jobs, jobs and more jobs are never a bad thing for the future of a metro.

Great. More cheap, precast, concrete-box warehouse buildings like the ones along I-170 .... just what we need!



Sorry for being sassy, but if we're going to attract industry, let's be strategic about it. Warehousing jobs are mostly low-skill and lower paying. We should continue to focus on higher-skill, higher-education jobs (like the biotech initiatives), which have the chance to bring greater average income and education, as well as the related industries that will need to follow to support them.

You just made the perfect argument for providing the uneducated and underskilled workforce, of many metro east hoods, jobs.

I read that twice...did you mean 24 instead of 57? Because otherwise I'm not sure it makes any sense.

tbspqr wrote:I don’t want to get in on the socioeconomic benefits and educational deficits of our society as a whole, but this project could be done BY Illinois a lot cheaper and serve a lot of people by -

instead of going so far north to Columbia, go north west and make a new river crossing and connect with I - 55 in Jeff Co.

How would building an entirely new bridge make it cheaper?

trent wrote:I read that twice...did you mean 24 instead of 57? Because otherwise I'm not sure it makes any sense.

yeah - my mistake..... I think i fixed my last post







It might not be cheaper (which is the wrong word) to build, but it would benefit more people (Jefferson County will have nearly 250,000 people by 2020) and they are served by one highway now (I-55) so it will benefit more people in the long run, which to me makes it more worth the money.... the ONLY reason to build any highway is to benefit people and comerce. Columbia has highways now and future highways planned, jeffco could be considered underserved..... but then again this might lend people to move there and that would be uncontrolled sprawl.... which everyone here hates.





from an article on: http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-024.html



Future Aspirations

According to the ISTEA/NHS/TEA-21 Legislation, money was appropriated for a feasibility study of a tollway running from East Saint Louis to Carbondale (City and State Rural Access Item 31) and for upgrading Illinois 13 in Williamson County (City and State Rural Access Item 35). These improvements lead me to believe that Illinois plans on extending Interstate 24 from its current northwestern terminus near Carbondale all the way to East Saint Louis. The three best alternatives for the proposed expressway, according to a consulting team headed by the planning agency of Wilbur Smith and Associates, are:



From north of Waterloo to Carbondale, via Red Bud, Sparta and Murphysboro.

From the Mousette Lane interchange on Interstate 255 at Cahokia to Carbondale, via New Athens, Sparta and Murphysboro.

From Interstate 64 east of Illinois 4 near the commercial airport being built at Scott Air Force Base to Carbondale, via Marissa, Cutler and Murphysboro.



The Illinois Department of Transportation and a group of expressway supporters known as the Southwest Illinois Freeway Team, or SWIFT, held public meetings in October 1995 at Sparta and Carbondale to unveil the three suggested routes and to try to drum up more support for the highway. Members of SWIFT say the expressway is needed to reduce travel time and eliminate the frustration of driving on old, two-lane roads between the Metro East area and Carbondale-Marion. Currently, traffic must travel along two to four lane city and town streets, then take two-lane rural roads between the cities and towns. Another reason for the proposed new tollway is the potential to open up southwestern Illinois to more commercial and residential development, which is the mantra for many proposed new highway projects.



The tollway feasibility study indicates that a tollway between East St. Louis and Marion via Carbondale will not pay for itself, but the potential traffic count may still be significant. Some SWIFT members say that most people at the public meetings favored building an expressway. Many citizens were puzzled about why a toll road is being considered rather than a "free" road for this corridor, but that is due to the fact that the state does not have the funding. By 1998, this corridor was no longer actively considered for construction as an Interstate-grade facility.

First off, I don't think any of the lines on the map are terribly needed. But if talking a new bridge south of St. Louis, why not put it closer to Chester or Ste. Genevieve, near where your green and red lines converge? But if still wanting the purple line, it should at least line up with the new 4-lane M and proposed 4-lane MM highways. I mean really, if anything were to be built, it should at least take advantage of existing 4-laned highways, where ever possible, or similar to how you have Metro East options lining up with IL 3, IL 15 or IL 158 (respectively green, red and blue). So I guess I don't understand why through Jefferson County, you opted for a completely new highway, yet in the Metro East, you reutilized existing wide highway corridors.

The three lines in Illinois -- I didn't utilize anything -- I just put the lines on the map as close as I could to where the official recommendations were. I honestly don’t think it would be that much to build it only because (what southslider said) these routes are already roads, and in most cases - state highways. Upgrading them would give STL more prestige because we'd have a 5th 2 digits serving us, as well as better access to the south, which has had a lot of growth recently.



As for the purple line - it was kind of silly for me to add it, but pacific on I-44, Herculaneum on I-55 and Red Bud on (future) I-24 are all isolated because of geography (rivers and hills etc). Another east west route will help - not to mention giving another viable alternative for truckers and commuters as a crossing of the Mississippi river. The cost is defiantly not worth it yet, but in 50 years, it may be as "vital" as 270, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this then continues up from pacific into St. Charles County and around the other side to Carlyle Il. A ‘super’ outer belt. Urbanists dread, but probably reality if the trends continue.



These routes are all nice to think about, but at the same time, they are in the very long range planning if at all. I don’t WANT to see them thought about anymore for at least 10 years. MRB is much more important, gateway connector, improving the interchange in East St. Louis, improving I-64, and I 70 out of the metro area, expanding 255. There are a LOT of road projects that are much more important (LETS NOT FORGET THE NON-ROAD EXPANSION OF METROLINK)....