My wife, two kids, and I are exploring a move to St Louis from Omaha. We were stationed at Scott AFB in the mid 90s, left the area in '96 and are now interested in moving back. I have three questions for the members:



1. Where we should we live if we want to live inside the 270 loop but not necessarily in the city itself? Webster Groves and Kirkwood look good based on limited research. Public school quality is important to us.



2. We have a child with autism. Can anyone comment on the quality of special education in the area? We have heard positive comments about the Special School District as well as the Judevine Center for Autism.



3. I have not looked for a job yet. I run a small (50 people) technology company in Omaha. I also have a banking background. Can anyone recommend a good executive recruiter?



If this is not the appropriate area for these questions, I apologize to the moderators.



Thanks

If you have a child with special needs, you probably want a really good public school over a private school. Webster Groves and Kirkwood are both excellent choices.

Inside 270, the Ladue School District is also good. I'm not sure about special education, someone else may have more experience, but the school district itself isn't entirely made of "out-of-reach" housing -- and in your work sector it may be closer to potential employers (I'm thinking the Olive corridor between 170 and 270).

^ Good suggestion. I'd look in Olivette, as I believe most if not all of it is in the Ladue School District. It's a very convenient location, the housing stock is great, and it's a great way to get into a top-notch school district while paying a fraction of what the average Ladue resident pays for a home.



In addition to Olivette and the Webster-Kirkwood area, I'd also look into South County communities like Crestwood, Sunset Hills, and Sappington, all of which are inside Interstate 270 and in the excellent Lindbergh School District.



And, you're definitely in the right place to ask questions! Welcome!

I've heard really good things about Giant Steps, a school for autism.



http://www.giantsteps-stlouis.org/Home.html



I am a product of Webster schools. They are decent enough. It's a district where you determine your own academic success- you can opt to just skate by or you could really excel. You'd probably get more house for your $$ by looking for houses in Shrewsbury or Rock Hill that are in the WG school district.



Brentwood also has good grade schools and you get much more for your $$ than Webster.

^ Shrewsbury and Brentwood are great suggestions.



Maplewood and Richmond Heights are wonderful communities as well. I don't know how good the MRH School District is these days, but the last time I heard anything, I think they were doing fine. Also keep in mind that part of Richmond Heights falls into the excellent Clayton School District.



One more thing- don't overlook the smaller communities around Kirkwood and Webster Groves as well- places like Glendale, Warson Woods, Oakland, and Rock Hill. All of these places have a strong sense of community, and of course, strong public schools.



I really love the Mid County 'burbs.

ThreeOneFour wrote:Maplewood and Richmond Heights are wonderful communities as well. I don't know how good the MRH School District is these days, but the last time I heard anything, I think they were doing fine. Also keep in mind that part of Richmond Heights falls into the excellent Clayton School District.

People I know who live in Maplewood have told me that the schools are steadily improving. They say that the grade schools are good, but the high school needs improvement. Just a guess, but it's probably the children of all the young couples that have moved to Maplewood recently who have helped the grade schools improve, and as they get older (provided they stay in Maplewood schools) maybe the jr. high and high school will improve as well.

While I know the public schools are a major detraction from living in St. Louis City with kids, there are options to be explored.



For the younger ones, there's the Soulard School, which I've heard really good things about. Of course, it's not free. Here's a snippet from their website:

The Soulard School is:



• a true reflection of the ethnic, religious, and economic diversity of the community (Soulard, Benton Park, Lafayette Square and surrounding neighborhoods)







• financially accessible with a sliding-scale tuition based on income (with an approximate range of $2,250 - $7,850/year with a median of $4,500/year)







• dedicated to excellence in elementary education using a curriculum that respects the individual through individualized attention to meeting age/grade appropriate objectives during core curriculum labs with a 12:1 student/teacher ratio







• student, family and community-based, relying on one another to create success for each child, support for each family, and strength in the community rooted in a strong and vital parent organization







• intimately connected to the larger community, parents, and businesses for mutual growth and learning opportunities, using the unique talents of individuals and the unique positions of local businesses

http://www.soulardschool.org/index.php



There's also the new school that's opening on Spring and Chouteau -- The Imagine School, I believe.



My point in mentioning these is rather simple and I hope does not come off as parochial or paternalistic towards the suburbs. It pains me to see people automatically write off the city in favor of the suburbs and their superior public schools.



My parents raised me in the city in private Catholic schools. Yes, it's a large bite out of your wallet, especially with five kids as they have, but I think growing up in the city is an unspoken and unaccounted for gain in many ways. With superior access to cultural amenities, great architecture, diverse environments, breathtaking public parks, a good library system, and especially affordable housing, paying for private/charter school education just might be worth it. Plus, some of the great city schools offer scholarships (try Metro or the New City School, both in the Central West End neighborhood).



I know many of these benefits could be felt in, say, Maplewood, Richmond Heights, and Shrewsbury, but not quite to the same degree. As a city resident, you become a direct stakeholder in and cause for its revitalization.



If you want a truly top notch public school, you'll pay for it in real estate. And with the tendency for increasing mobility among workers in America today, I do wonder why people look to buy in areas with great schools when they could live in the city, save a lot of money on housing, and put their kids in a private or charter school.



I apologize, but I just had to briefly vouch for a city residence.

A couple of points.



Few people move to Missouri for the public schools. The state's system of public education ranks middle to low on most national rankings.



There are good public schools in most local school districts.



St. Louis Public School District has the second ranked elementary school, and the top ranked middle and high schools in the entire state.



The state's 5th (a Rockwood school) and 8th (Lindbergh) ranked elementary schools; 2nd (a Ladue school); 3rd, 6th, and 9th (Lindbergh); and 10th (Kirkwood) ranked middle schools; and the 2nd (a Rockwood school); 3rd (Clayton); 9th (Brentwood); and 10th (Lindbergh) ranked high schools are all in the metro area.

publiceye wrote:Few people move to Missouri for the public schools. The state's system of public education ranks middle to low on most national rankings.

Since this isn't the first time you've made this claim, would you care to share your source(s) with the class?

The most comprehensive look at Missouri public education is the annual Pew Trust survey published by Education Week.



http://www.edweek.org/media/ew/qc/2008/18shr.mo.h27.pdf



The worrisome number for me is the state's 39th ranking in K-12 achievement.



The state also scores badly on the annual NEA survey of average public school teacher salary, student-teacher ratio, and per pupil expenditure.



http://www.nea.org/edstats/images/07rankings.pdf

publiceye wrote:The state also scores badly on the annual NEA survey of average public school teacher salary, student-teacher ratio, and per pupil expenditure.

I guess that old "you get what you pay for" adage applies here.



I remember you mentioned the relatively lackluster performance of Missouri schools previously, and I wanted to look further into the matter to get a better understanding of why they're in less-than-stellar shape (although the quote above states several key reasons). Thank you for providing the links above!

^ And I repeat my assertion that are great schools in many Missouri public school districts. A broad brush is more useful for policy analysis than for picking a residence.

"My wife, two kids, and I are exploring a move to St Louis from Omaha. We were stationed at Scott AFB in the mid 90s, left the area in '96 and are now interested in moving back. I have three questions for the members:



1. Where we should we live if we want to live inside the 270 loop but not necessarily in the city itself? Webster Groves and Kirkwood look good based on limited research. Public school quality is important to us.



2. We have a child with autism. Can anyone comment on the quality of special education in the area? We have heard positive comments about the Special School District as well as the Judevine Center for Autism.



3. I have not looked for a job yet. I run a small (50 people) technology company in Omaha. I also have a banking background. Can anyone recommend a good executive recruiter?



If this is not the appropriate area for these questions, I apologize to the moderators.



Thanks

I grew up in St. Louis, in particular Webster Groves. My extended family lived in Maplewood-Richmond Heights. I attended Margaret M. Goodall School, now condominiums, and 1 year at Hixson Jr. HS. I moved to Memphis, TN, for a year; my dad worked for Chemtech Corp., based in Maplewood, MO, who opened a river-front plant in Memphis. We then returned to MO and lived in Richmond Heights. I attended FABULOUS MRH (Maplewood-Richmond Heights) HS (Go Blue Devils!). I must say it was the most wonderful time of my life. About 50% of my 180 person HS class still attend reunions whenever we can, by hook or by crook.



So, my point is this: first off, you can't go wrong in moving to St. Louis. It is an urban environment with a deep history going back to pre-Louisiana purchase, with a strong infrastructure and a renaissance occurring NOW! Go for it!



I would like to add that the MRH school district is small and very well administrated. They have about a 13:1 teacher to student ratio. Many of my friends are employed in the school district who attended those very schools. I think that really speaks well of the school district in entirety. It truly was, and is, a fantastic experience and environment. I wish my children could have experienced what I did. I spent 20 years in the service of the US Navy so I carted my kids wherever I went. I wish everyone could have the same wonderful life I had growing up in St. Louis. I truly hope you and your family move there.



Within the year I hope to do the same. I want to move to Compton Heights, Soulard, Tower Grove East, Benton Park, Shaw, or Gaslight Square. I know-I'm all over the place! But, I am totally free to do whatever I want, so I am very open minded about where I eventually buy. My family is still there and I look forward to spending time back in the fold.



Hope you decide to move to St. Louis!

It pains me to see people automatically write off the city in favor of the suburbs and their superior public schools.

I totally agree. I wish more young families would consider the city options. Unfortunately, I believe there is a wait list for the Magnet schools: Metro, Kennard Classical Elementary, and I forget what the middle school is...

Why doesn't the city have more of these magnet schools? Schools where you would have to be admitted based on test scores. Is that possible?

If you don't mind breaking your "inside 270" rule, Parkway School District is about the best when it comes to working with the Special School District. I've worked for SSD for a little under a decade now, and I've worked all over the county--including Webster and Kirkwood. My take on those two districts is generally good. However, in my professional judgement, Webster and Kirkwood are second to Parkway. Webster's & Kirkwoods's administration isn't always as flexible or as accomodating as they should be.





There are different levels of support available throughout St. Louis County, based on your child's academic ability. If they can handle general education integration with paraeducator support, that option is available. There are also Phase II classrooms (special education rooms in general education buildings...sometimes called Self Contained Classrooms) in those districts to support children who have more difficulty with general education. Many students use the phase II room as a home room; integerating into general education (with paraeducator support) for the activites which they most benefit from, and then returning to Phase II throughout the day.



Larger districts seem better equiped to work with special needs children. True, all services are provided by the Special School District. But some of the smaller districts I've worked in seemed to be at a loss as to where to place our students. I was in a very small, yet very wealthy district 6 years ago. We had the first student with autism to go through their grade school. They seemed to be at a loss for what to do--they didn't have a phase II room, but general ed was too hard, and the resource room wasn't a fit either. That's one advantage of a larger district--more classrooms and more options.



One of the best classrooms I have ever worked in was a kindergarten classroom in Kirkwood. It was the absolute model for integrating a special needs student into a general education classroom.



I should also note that its been almost 5 years since I worked in Webster Groves, so take my words with a grain of salt.



Any good school or educational program would be happy to show you their school, and their resources for special needs children. I encourage you to ask for tours of any schools/programs you're interested in. I've had plenty of people walk through my classrooms and I'm always happy to explain what's going on.



Giant Steps does do some good for some students, but its not every family's cup of tea. And since I come from more of a behavioral background (focused on positive reinforcement), I don't always see eye to eye with their philosophy that primarily focuses on sensory integration. Judevine, however, is an EXCELLENT resource that has helped many of my families.



Good Luck, and welcome back to St. Louis! You can always reach the Special School District's front desk at 314-989-8100, and their website is www.ssd.k12.mo.us

expatinva wrote:I would like to add that the MRH school district is small and very well administrated. They have about a 13:1 teacher to student ratio. Many of my friends are employed in the school district who attended those very schools. I think that really speaks well of the school district in entirety. It truly was, and is, a fantastic experience and environment. I wish my children could have experienced what I did. I spent 20 years in the service of the US Navy so I carted my kids wherever I went. I wish everyone could have the same wonderful life I had growing up in St. Louis. I truly hope you and your family move there.

Welcome to the forum! It's good to know the MRHSD is doing well these days, because Maplewood and Richmond Heights are a couple of places my wife and I will consider when we look for larger digs in the next year or two.



Parkway is a good recommendation, especially considering their working relationship with SSD, and you wouldn't necessarily have to break the "inside 270" criterion to find a home in the district. Much of Creve Coeur (the city and the unincorporated area to the north) lies in the Parkway School District, and there are still plenty of reasonably priced homes in established neighborhoods in this particular part of the district.

ThreeOneFour wrote:

expatinva wrote:I would like to add that the MRH school district is small and very well administrated. They have about a 13:1 teacher to student ratio. Many of my friends are employed in the school district who attended those very schools. I think that really speaks well of the school district in entirety. It truly was, and is, a fantastic experience and environment. I wish my children could have experienced what I did. I spent 20 years in the service of the US Navy so I carted my kids wherever I went. I wish everyone could have the same wonderful life I had growing up in St. Louis. I truly hope you and your family move there.

Welcome to the forum! It's good to know the MRHSD is doing well these days, because Maplewood and Richmond Heights are a couple of places my wife and I will consider when we look for larger digs in the next year or two.



Parkway is a good recommendation, especially considering their working relationship with SSD, and you wouldn't necessarily have to break the "inside 270" criterion to find a home in the district. Much of Creve Coeur (the city and the unincorporated area to the north) lies in the Parkway School District, and there are still plenty of reasonably priced homes in established neighborhoods in this particular part of the district.

I love many of the mid-century homes in Creve Couer.



Cobblestone, what is your opinion on special education services in the city?

my nephew is autistic and lives in a Judevine home. He is 19 and Judevine has been a godsend for my brother and sister-in-law. He was diagnoses late with autism and went through the St. Charles school system--which from observation I would not suggest (not that you were looking there anyway). Right now he is taking classes for his GED through Pattonville. I'm not sure about other aspects of that district, but at least from the special needs perspective they are pleased.

My boyfriend’s son is autistic and started the Miriam school this year. The school is AMAZING! It is a private school that I believe is in Webster.



http://www.miriamschool.org/



My boyfriend lives in Kirkwood and his son was in the special ed. program for autism but they were trying to mainstream him too quickly (they had him with regular classes more then the developmental classes). In the 5 months since he has started Miriam he has improved so much. He loves school, loves doing homework (he ask for writing assignments from his dad). 5 months ago the he cried if you asked him to color or write.

He also attends a SNAP program in the Kirkwood school system. I know it is one day a week after school. I don’t know much about it other than it is for kids with development problems.



My boyfriend’s daughter goes to a Kirkwood grade school; I'm impressed with the education she is receiving.

63104mom wrote:I love many of the mid-century homes in Creve Couer.

I'm really starting to dig Mid-Century architecture, and Creve Coeur has many great examples. I just wish there was a greater appreciation for it, because too many homes and other structures from this era have already vanished.

ThreeOneFour wrote:

63104mom wrote:I love many of the mid-century homes in Creve Couer.

I'm really starting to dig Mid-Century architecture, and Creve Coeur has many great examples. I just wish there was a greater appreciation for it, because too many homes and other structures from this era have already vanished.

The sprawling, 1950s ranches in the southern half of Olivette are just awesome -- really some of the best "mainstream suburban" architecture of the era in St. Louis. Unfortunately, they're being torn down left and right to put up bland, two-story McMansions built out to the property easements and with none of the character of the earlier houses.