Mark McGwire has been disgraced by his actions with steroids and even more by his inaction in owning up to it in Congress. A five mile stretch of I-70 in St. Louis was named after him via a Missouri law. It should be repealed as he is a disgrace and sets a bad example for our children.
Who can we contact to further this movement? I think a petition would be nice.
I'm not here to talk about the past, but I never thought it was a good idea to name a highway after him in the first place.
For me his place in the steroid scandal is largely irrelevant- it was just a silly idea to name a highway after him. If we were going to name a highway after an athlete, we could have found many more that made more significant contributions to St. Louis either on field or within the community in general.
innov8ion wrote:Mark McGwire has been disgraced by his actions with steroids and even more by his inaction in owning up to it in Congress. A five mile stretch of I-70 in St. Louis was named after him via a Missouri law. It should be repealed as he is a disgrace and sets a bad example for our children.
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:What were his "actions with steroids"?
He took andro and other steroids to cheat in baseball.
You know this for a fact, or are you just guessing? And when he was taking andro, it wasn't against the rules.
Exactly. Innocent until proven guilty. However, I think the highway could be named after someone that has done significant social deeds for St. Louis and Missouri.
William Clay, Sr.
John Danforth
Judge Ronnie White
Mel Carnahan
Just to name a few or just leave it as the Lewis & Clark.
^or just change it back to the Mark Twain Expressway. I always thought it wasn't right to name the highway after a sports player, especially one that only played in this town for a few years. Luckily our state legislators had the foresight not to rename the Ozark Expressway the Kurt Warner Expressway back in 2000.
We need to get the Nelly Expressway or something. He's building a big athletic building somewhere I read on this forum today, and he still holds residence in the county, so why not?
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:What were his "actions with steroids"?
He took andro and other steroids to cheat in baseball.
You know this for a fact, or are you just guessing? And when he was taking andro, it wasn't against the rules.
This is a civil issue, not a criminal one. Therefore it doesn't matter whether he tested positive or not. A preponderance of evidence shows McGwire to be a cheater. The man is definitely not a good example for children or anyone for that matter.
"Although McGwire has never admitted to or been convicted of any steroid use, many of his accomplishments, particularly his historic home run surge late in his career, have come into question due to his connection to the steroid scandal in Major League Baseball.
In 1998, after an article written by Associated Press writer Steve Wilstein, McGwire admitted to taking androstenedione, an over-the-counter muscle enhancement product. While legal for use in MLB, it had been banned by the NFL and IOC.
In 2005, former "Bash Brothers" McGwire and Jose Canseco were subpoenaed to testify at a congressional hearing on steroids, along with five other baseball players and four baseball executives. Canseco had released Juiced: Wild Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits & How Baseball Got Big, a book in which he spoke positively about steroids, and made various claims-- among them, that McGwire had been using performance enhancing drugs since the 1980s. During his testimony on March 17, 2005, McGwire declined to answer questions under oath when he appeared before the House Government Reform Committee."
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
innov8ion wrote:
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:His appearance before congress was excellent.
Excellent if the metric is gauged by being completely uncooperative.
By being uncooperative, he did the right thing. He was answering questions from people who had no business asking them.
Congress chooses to involve itself in matters the public deems important. Whether you agree that it's important or not, the majority did and an investigation was held. McGwire simply did not cooperate.
brickandmortar wrote:^or just change it back to the Mark Twain Expressway. I always thought it wasn't right to name the highway after a sports player, especially one that only played in this town for a few years. Luckily our state legislators had the foresight not to rename the Ozark Expressway the Kurt Warner Expressway back in 2000.
My point exactly- it never should've been changed in the first place. What Mark McGwire did or didn't do doesn't matter to me. Like I said before, I'm not here to talk about the past.
brickandmortar wrote:^or just change it back to the Mark Twain Expressway.
How can we replace Mark Twain? Take it back to the Mark Twain Expressway.
Definitely a good idea. I subscribe to the general rule that things shouldn't be named for people while they are alive -- there's always a chance they'll do something disgraceful and make you reconsider the honor. But even without the steroid scandal, McGwire just doesn't have the impact on local or national culture that Mark Twain does.
Maybe not cheating...but Oh wait...IT'S ILLEGAL!!! I'm so sick of the "it wasn't against the rules of baseball at the time." No, but it was against the rules of this country. I guess as long as you play baseball, the rules of the country mean nothing. Jeez...
Then say he was doing something illegal. But by definition he wasn't cheating.
I'm not condoning it... I just have a hard time calling it 'cheating' when so many other players were doing it, too. Is it really "cheating" if everyone is doing it? What about the post-WWII to early 1960s era, when they were all taking amphetamines? Would you consider that cheating as well?
Tysalpha wrote:Then say he was doing something illegal. But by definition he wasn't cheating.
I'm not condoning it... I just have a hard time calling it 'cheating' when so many other players were doing it, too. Is it really "cheating" if everyone is doing it? What about the post-WWII to early 1960s era, when they were all taking amphetamines? Would you consider that cheating as well?
So if 50% of a class cheat on a test, it's not cheating? Uh, it means that 50% cheated and 50% didn't. Moral relativism is idiocy.
Tysalpha wrote:Then say he was doing something illegal. But by definition he wasn't cheating.
I'm not condoning it... I just have a hard time calling it 'cheating' when so many other players were doing it, too. Is it really "cheating" if everyone is doing it? What about the post-WWII to early 1960s era, when they were all taking amphetamines? Would you consider that cheating as well?
So if 50% of a class cheat on a test, it's not cheating? Uh, it means that 50% cheated and 50% didn't. Moral relativism is idiocy.
A better set-up is: 50% of a class used their notes during a test, 50% did not. The teacher never said if they could or couldn't use notes, and in fact didn't stop them when she saw some of them pulling out their notebooks. But when their grades are posted, their parents and friends all assume that no-one used notes. Now is it cheating, or is it naivete?
Tysalpha wrote:Then say he was doing something illegal. But by definition he wasn't cheating.
I'm not condoning it... I just have a hard time calling it 'cheating' when so many other players were doing it, too. Is it really "cheating" if everyone is doing it? What about the post-WWII to early 1960s era, when they were all taking amphetamines? Would you consider that cheating as well?
So if 50% of a class cheat on a test, it's not cheating? Uh, it means that 50% cheated and 50% didn't. Moral relativism is idiocy.
A better set-up is: 50% of a class used their notes during a test, 50% did not. The teacher never said if they could or couldn't use notes, and in fact didn't stop them when she saw some of them pulling out their notebooks. But when their grades are posted, their parents and friends all assume that no-one used notes. Now is it cheating, or is it naivete?
Right, Major League Baseball knew about the steroid usage and looked the other way. This made them just as much or more to blame, causing Congress to step in. So yes, McGwire was a cheater and MLB also conspired by looking the other way for much too long.
There's a big difference between Twain (and even MLK) and McGwire. Huckleberry Finn is a work of fiction. "Twain's defenders have always argued that Huck's language was satiric, and meant to expose his late 19th-century audience to its own hypocrisy and intolerance." Ref: http://tinyurl.com/36ubb8. Unfortunately, steroid use / cheating is tied to McGwire's greatest success, thus his career and notoriety is sullied.
Sigh...Looks like I'm gonna have to set you all striaght...again...
Yes steroid use is illegal. No, it wasn't against the rules at the time. No, that doesn't make it OK to use them. No, it doesn't mean McGwire should be drummed out of baseball or have his name taken off signs BECAUSE...
He's a decent, kind human being.
How many millions of $$$ did he donate to charitable causes? How much time did he spend at hospitals, etc. And we're going to villify him for trying to improve the financial welfare of his family?
I'm sick of all these self rightous pompous A-holes thinking that they wouldn't do the EXACT same thing if given the opportunity. Like Sammy Sosa - you've got a poor family back in the DR. You can take roids, shorten your life by 10 years, but secure the financial wellbeing of your family for the next 50 years, or you can not, risk losing major league status, going to the minors, getting paid squat and then going back to poverty. Um, lemme think about this one.
No, Big Mac didn't come for a dirt poor immigrant background, but that's not the point. The lure of financial security is a BIG reason people do things they should have. And as far as the health risks go, millions of people for thousands of years have willingly took years off their life for money to help their families. Except, in those days, they were called coal miners and steel workers. (today, we call them popcorn factory folk as well). There's a difference you say? Really? So are those mexican migrant workers willingly violating labor laws so they can improve their lot in life are better than Big Mac? They're breaking the law!
Frankly, I don't think McGwire should be on a highway anyways. He was a one trick show pony from baseball standards. Couldn't run, played TERRIBLE defense, and never knocked in runs in the clutch (121 rbis in a season with 70 HRS???!?!?!?!), and never really made people around him that much better. But he's a great human being, if a little flawed in his pursuit of financial freedom. If they take the name down, Twain is a fine replacement, but it better not be because of alleged steroid use.
There's nothing wrong with using your right to remain silent in court.
