I'm still just saying, I see a lot more emo losers with their underwear hanging out (in girl pants usually) than I do black kids with their underwear hanging out.
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Could Pine Lawn also pass a law requiring the females to wear burkas? ![]()
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trent wrote:I do believe that your pants should cover the crack of your ass. Call me a fuddy duddy if you want...
I guess I might be a fuddy duddy, because I agree with you. Crack kills.
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This whole forum dies after like 4p.m. I'm going to make the assumption off of that that a lot of employers' time goes in to this forum 
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^ Accurate assumption. I check in at work, at school, and whenever I check my email, so I could be logged on just about anytime. I'm addicted.
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migueltejada wrote:This law is unconstitutional and won't make it past the circuit court. A law that restricts how people express themselves in clothing? What's next, a mandated return to wearing corsets and bowler hats? This law is a joke, even if the people its designed against look like slobs. If they're not interested in being taken seriously by...well anyone, thats their perogative.
But there's a line. Many public schools have dress codes, so do many businesses and workplaces. These laws are poping up everywhere. I guess if they're unconstitutional we should find out soon enough.
I think there is a difference between having a dress code at school or business, and telling a community of people how to dress.
I personally like baggy pants. they make it easier to identify who the jackasses are. they make it tough for criminals to run away from police, or run after me. they make it so gang-bangers have to tuck their pistols in their boxers which makes it harder to pack, and more likely they are going to shoot their peckers off.
besides, other cultures wear stupid things too.
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besides, other cultures wear stupid things too.
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TGE-ATW wrote:I personally like baggy pants. they make it easier to identify who the jackasses are. they make it tough for criminals to run away from police, or run after me.
No one has convinced me until now. This is the best case I've heard for sagging pants yet.
This morning's P-Diddy has an article about Black migration to Hazelwood and White exodus (the focus is on the school district). The stats are pretty stark. On the one hand, there appears to be blatant "its getting too dark around here" sentiment at work. On the other hand, two gun incidents, gangsta cultural identifiers (dress, music, graffiti, etc), multiple bomb threats, and a canceled homecoming rally due to threats of gang violence, are all new phenomena for the schools and are scaring many long-time white residents. The article does a fairly good job of seeing the issue from two sides, though it seems to emphasize that whites are moving despite the fact that the black in-migration is primarily upper middle class (thereby ascribing the trend to anti-black racism). The principal and some of the students seem to think that most of the gangsta stuff is pretend, or essentially a reflection of pop-culture, rather than real gangs. Does this matter? Is it wrong for parents to be afraid of gangster culture (real or wannabe?) and take steps to insulate their children from it? Can one be afraid of or disdainful of Gangsta culture and move away from it without being labeled a racist? I value diversity, but I don't value what I consider to be a bankrupt cultural trend. Can I have both? Link
Where will one move and not be saturated with this gangsta culture? It's rather predominant on television and even areas of St. Charles are seeing an influx of the wannabee "hard" gangstas. These are really stupid kids who watch MTV, have rims and throw backs, thus they must be legit. I think the solution isn't to move but to be a parent. My parents actually moved me to unincorporated St. Charles from St. Peters because my neighbors were "a bad influence." I think the reason we moved from Bellefontaine Neighbors to St. Charles because of this. But even still after moving I ended up doing some pretty stupid things in my day. Trying to isolate children from bad influences has been tried and it doesn't work. Parents can't prevent their children from doing anything. They can only try to influence them. Attempts at isolation doesn't do anything good.
I don't think it matters whether one is lower, middle or upper class. If you're a parent and tacitly approve of a culture that promotes drugs, crime and misogyny -- then don't be surprised if little Bobby or Britney goes south. It's not black culture parents are trying to avoid, it's a morally bankrupt, gangster culture.
I agree with Doug, above. Do what you can as a parent, first. But if the environment you're in is just plain unhealthy, do what you gotta do.
I agree with Doug, above. Do what you can as a parent, first. But if the environment you're in is just plain unhealthy, do what you gotta do.
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Guess they'll have to build Ft. Zumwalt West-West as a result.
I personally find it laughable when people move to the boonies or exburbs to get away from "those people" for a false sense of security. Ask the people at the Jonesboro, Arkansas school that was shot up some years ago. Parents sent their children to Virginia Tech probably thinking they were safe and there was still a "shoot 'em up" at the university. I wonder if people have moved farther away after the "shoot 'em up" at Columbine in Denver? Or what about the recent Cleveland, Ohio high school "shoot 'em up"?
When was the last time there was a "shoot 'em up" at a St. Louis public school or Hazelwood school? Idiotic and demented children, regardless of race, are everywhere. A style of dress or how someone looks is not necessarily a deterent or an indicator if you or your children are (or will be) safe.
When was the last time there was a "shoot 'em up" at a St. Louis public school or Hazelwood school? Idiotic and demented children, regardless of race, are everywhere. A style of dress or how someone looks is not necessarily a deterent or an indicator if you or your children are (or will be) safe.
I don't think these parents are afraid of a "shoot em up." Ostracized and mentally ill white/suburban kids seem to have the corner on that particular phenomenon. My opinion is that many parents think they are afraid of gang violence (which may or may not be legitimate) when in fact they are afraid that their kids are going to start sagging, wearing their hats sideways, listening to the hippitybippitybizop, and applying Grizzles to their Tizzles. Because kids are so likely to adopt the norms and values of their friends and peers rather than their parents during the teen years, I can understand a parent's urge to put their child into an environment that conforms more to their own sense of normalcy. While this pop-culture is widespread, it is more prevalent and more normative among a certain portion of the population. I think that it is perfectly legitimate for a parent to move their child away from a concentration of behavior they don't think is helpful. Unfortunately, it seems that this choice often results in defacto segregation.
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Arch City wrote:I personally find it laughable when people move to the boonies or exburbs to get away from "those people" for a false sense of security.
Especially when "those people" are more affluent!
"Honey, a black family is building a $500,000 house a few blocks away - hurry, call our realtor!"
innov8ion wrote:I don't think it matters whether one is lower, middle or upper class. If you're a parent and tacitly approve of a culture that promotes drugs, crime and misogyny -- then don't be surprised if little Bobby or Britney goes south. It's not black culture parents are trying to avoid, it's a morally bankrupt, gangster culture.
I agree with Doug, above. Do what you can as a parent, first. But if the environment you're in is just plain unhealthy, do what you gotta do.
OK, I'm going to come out of the closet and admit that I'm among those people who've moved out of North County fairly recently. And yeah, let's be honest, the whole culture was a large part of the reason.
I'm not the only one. The reality is that even during the go-go run up in the housing prices, the value of my house in NoCo actually declined, after accounting for inflation. My house (in a nice neighborhood in unincorporated Florissant) was burglarized three times, my car broken into in my driveway twice, and I witnessed decent stores closing and, if they weren't sitting empty, being replaced by check cashing joints. There is only so much people will put up with before giving in and calling it quits.
I have to say my current neighborhood in St. Louis County is actually more diverse (in a real definition of the word, not as a euphemism for black/white) than my old neighborhood -- at least half the neighborhood is populated with people born outside the US: India, China, Senegal, Mexico, Pakistan, Israel, etc. -- and my kids are exposed to all sorts of cultural things (Diwali, Chinese New Year, Sukkot, etc.) that don't involve thumping bass, saggy pants, bling and pit bulls.
Baggy pants (as much as I dislike the trend) are not necessarily promoting drugs, crime or misogyny. Britney Spears, Nicole Ritchie, Paris Hilton, Lindsey Lohan and other drug rehab queens influence youth. What culture is promoted by those rehab queens of America? "Bobby and Britney" need to watch out for them too.innov8ion wrote:I don't think it matters whether one is lower, middle or upper class. If you're a parent and tacitly approve of a culture that promotes drugs, crime and misogyny -- then don't be surprised if little Bobby or Britney goes south. It's not black culture parents are trying to avoid, it's a morally bankrupt, gangster culture.
Hip Hop culture does not promote drugs any more than any culture. And those that suggest otherwise are people that have no real knowledge of hip-hop culture. Drugs, crime and misogyny were around long before any aspect of hip-hop culture. While some baggy pants wearers are extreme in their display, baggy pants or "grills", for the most part, are fashion statements just like bell bottom pants, psychedelic shirts and platform shoes were back in the day.
For the most part, baggy pants are a fashion statement for many youth - most of whom have no involvement in drugs, crime or misogyny. It's hideous to broadbrush/stereotype. It is no different than other fashion trends. An individual can wear a suit or even a fancy "house coat" like Hugh Hefner does and promote drugs and misogyny.
Anyway.....corporations (ex. Enron, World Com etc.) were robbed by people in suits. Students in trenchcoats shot up a school. People rob banks in suits. People rob banks in sweatsuits, shorts and jeans. They rob banks in baggy pants. People in suits push porn via the newstand and Internet. People in suits own and promote nudie bars, whore houses, "massage parlors" and 24 hour porn shops. Please. This society is full of "cultural" degenerates if you want to seriously explore it. There's enough blame to go around with regard to why children in that predominately-white "suburban" (Warren Township) Indianapolis school decided to have sex in front of their peers.
Give me a break. While some aspects of hip-hop culture is questionable - just like any other culture or music genre - don't blame "Bobby's and Britney's" problems solely on it. Sometimes, you have to look in your own back yard for answers and solutions just like any other group.
"The incident only lasted 30 seconds."
Bwah hah hah!!!!!!!! what a stud, what a performer!!!!!!!!!
/whats that you say, 6th grade??????????????????????
//never mind
///better than I could've done.
Bwah hah hah!!!!!!!! what a stud, what a performer!!!!!!!!!
/whats that you say, 6th grade??????????????????????
//never mind
///better than I could've done.
Well, I have family and friends in NoCo (Spanish Lake, Bellefontaine Neighbors, Black Jack, Florissant, Ferguson, Hazelwood, Normandy) - just to name a few - and they don't report the problems that you do. I am sure there are problems, but crime, unfortunately, is all over.JustMe123 wrote:innov8ion wrote:I don't think it matters whether one is lower, middle or upper class. If you're a parent and tacitly approve of a culture that promotes drugs, crime and misogyny -- then don't be surprised if little Bobby or Britney goes south. It's not black culture parents are trying to avoid, it's a morally bankrupt, gangster culture.
I agree with Doug, above. Do what you can as a parent, first. But if the environment you're in is just plain unhealthy, do what you gotta do.
OK, I'm going to come out of the closet and admit that I'm among those people who've moved out of North County fairly recently. And yeah, let's be honest, the whole culture was a large part of the reason.
I'm not the only one. The reality is that even during the go-go run up in the housing prices, the value of my house in NoCo actually declined, after accounting for inflation. My house (in a nice neighborhood in unincorporated Florissant) was burglarized three times, my car broken into in my driveway twice, and I witnessed decent stores closing and, if they weren't sitting empty, being replaced by check cashing joints. There is only so much people will put up with before giving in and calling it quits.
I have to say my current neighborhood in St. Louis County is actually more diverse (in a real definition of the word, not as a euphemism for black/white) than my old neighborhood -- at least half the neighborhood is populated with people born outside the US: India, China, Senegal, Mexico, Pakistan, Israel, etc. -- and my kids are exposed to all sorts of cultural things (Diwali, Chinese New Year, Sukkot, etc.) that don't involve thumping bass, saggy pants, bling and pit bulls.
Also, a part of the reason stores close is because of demographic shifts. It's just a fact of life. Stores close in Clayton, Kirkwood, Chesterfield. Truth of the matter is, everyone doesn't like the same products, clothing, etc. And if NoCo was so bad, then there wouldn't be so many new housing and retail developments completed, under construction or planned. There's even a new retail center planned for, um, Florissant.
Yes, there are going to be idiots wherever you go, even where you currently live, but don't suggest that your home won't get broken into just because you shift suburbs. Anything could happen. If there are break-ins and heists happening in Clayton, Chesterfield, St. Charles, Des Peres and Ladue it sure will happen in other 'burbs.
And if a check-cashing operation make you skittish, man. I say, "At least "those people" are working. FYI. See, one of the reasons why check-cashing establishments exist in minority communities disproportionately is because minorities tend to not trust banks or the government. It's a historic thing. Knowing this helps.
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Arch City wrote:Well, I have family and friends in NoCo (Spanish Lake, Bellefontaine Neighbors, Black Jack, Florissant, Ferguson, Hazelwood, Normandy) - just to name a few - and they don't report the problems that you do. I am sure there are problems, but crime, unfortunately, is all over.JustMe123 wrote:innov8ion wrote:I don't think it matters whether one is lower, middle or upper class. If you're a parent and tacitly approve of a culture that promotes drugs, crime and misogyny -- then don't be surprised if little Bobby or Britney goes south. It's not black culture parents are trying to avoid, it's a morally bankrupt, gangster culture.
I agree with Doug, above. Do what you can as a parent, first. But if the environment you're in is just plain unhealthy, do what you gotta do.
OK, I'm going to come out of the closet and admit that I'm among those people who've moved out of North County fairly recently. And yeah, let's be honest, the whole culture was a large part of the reason.
I'm not the only one. The reality is that even during the go-go run up in the housing prices, the value of my house in NoCo actually declined, after accounting for inflation. My house (in a nice neighborhood in unincorporated Florissant) was burglarized three times, my car broken into in my driveway twice, and I witnessed decent stores closing and, if they weren't sitting empty, being replaced by check cashing joints. There is only so much people will put up with before giving in and calling it quits.
I have to say my current neighborhood in St. Louis County is actually more diverse (in a real definition of the word, not as a euphemism for black/white) than my old neighborhood -- at least half the neighborhood is populated with people born outside the US: India, China, Senegal, Mexico, Pakistan, Israel, etc. -- and my kids are exposed to all sorts of cultural things (Diwali, Chinese New Year, Sukkot, etc.) that don't involve thumping bass, saggy pants, bling and pit bulls.
To be fair, the experiences of your friends and family are irrelevant. JustMe123 experienced what he(?) experienced, and made a decision based upon that.
Arch City wrote:Yes, there are going to be idiots wherever you go, even where you currently live, but don't suggest that your home won't get broken into just because you shift suburbs. Anything could happen. If there are break-ins and heists happening in Clayton, Chesterfield, St. Charles, Des Peres and Ladue it sure will happen in other 'burbs.
I would suggest that the chances of your home being broken into are a lot lower in Clayton or Ladue than they are in Florissant, Ferguson, Hazelwood, etc. To believe otherwise is to have your head in the sand.
Arch City wrote:And if a check-cashing operation make you skittish, man. I say, "At least "those people" are working. FYI. See, one of the reasons why check-cashing establishments exist in minority communities disproportionately is because minorities tend to not trust banks or the government. It's a historic thing. Knowing this helps.
Check cashing places exist in areas where there are high concentrations of stupid people. Race has nothing to do with it.
I wasn't referring to them specifically, but they are connected with a culture that does promote it. Please keep in mind that the baggy pant phenomenon started in the prisons.Arch City wrote:Baggy pants (as much as I dislike the trend) are not necessarily promoting drugs, crime or misogyny.
Umm, you may want to check the lyrics in the top urban songs and compare them with their counterparts. Don't make me break out some studies that show otherwise... Also, "grills" and assorted "bling" promote materialism. Bell-bottom pants only promote bad style.Arch City wrote:Hip Hop culture does not promote drugs any more than any culture. And those that suggest otherwise are people that have no real knowledge of hip-hop culture. Drugs, crime and misogyny were around long before any aspect of hip-hop culture. While some baggy pants wearers are extreme in their display, baggy pants or "grills", for the most part, are fashion statements just like bell bottom pants, psychedelic shirts and platform shoes were back in the day.
That's why parenting and individual responsibility is important. But it doesn't mean you have to live in a polluted environment. Nature/Nurture is about 50/50, ya know. And I'm not saying that Hazelwood is polluted, just speaking theoretically.Arch City wrote:Give me a break. While some aspects of hip-hop culture is questionable - just like any other culture or music genre - don't blame "Bobby's and Britney's" problems solely on it. Sometimes, you have to look in your own back yard for answers and solutions just like any other group.
Its true that minority communities have traditionally distrusted gov/banks, and with good reasons in many cases. That said, check cashing joints and payday loans are a horrible alternative. It is time to get over historical distrust of banks based on real and/or perceived discrimination, especially since the alternative is outright exploitation in the form of predatory loans and exorbitant check cashing fees. If people are truly opting for these forms of "banking" rather than going to traditional banks because of an ingrained distrust of "the system," they are exploiting themselves.
Well it is relevant once one generalizes half of the county. His experience in Florissant shouldn't apply to people in Black Jack. Realistically, he couldn't have possibly had his experiences in all of North County.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:To be fair, the experiences of your friends and family are irrelevant. JustMe123 experienced what he(?) experienced, and made a decision based upon that.
Well duh. Nonetheless, a break-in is a break-in. I don't want my home broken into anywhere. I don't want to be the Claytonian who has my home broken into regardless of the low risk factors. Point is, most North Countians have not had problems with break-ins or crime.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:I would suggest that the chances of your home being broken into are a lot lower in Clayton or Ladue than they are in Florissant, Ferguson, Hazelwood, etc.
Well, they should put one downtown on Washington Avenue.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Check cashing places exist in areas where there are high concentrations of stupid people.
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^actually there are quite a few check cashing places in St. Charles along Fifth Street and First Capitol Drive. I hate to see them as I think they are predatory, but to be honest banks don't give folks working paycheck to paycheck much more of a margin of error. I think the usual charge for overdraft is $30-40 per check.