Screw I-64. It sounds unnatural. It will always be (and should always be) Highway 40. It's one of St. Louis's beloved colloquialisms. HIGHWAY FARTY BABY!
Although I tend to say 40, it irritates me when I hear others say it. So I'm trying to get in the habit of saying 64 too.
I really hate it when the "Highway" part of 40 is applied to other transit routes, as in "Highway 55." I've seen the P-D do that. It's I-55, people! Let's start thinking big!
Is there anything negative about calling them "expressways"? They used to call them that...seems like it was in the 70's that this "highway" thing started in referring to the expressways.
I like keeping the local flavor of saying highway 40. Technically, I think it will be both highway 40 and I-64, so saying farty is perfectly acceptable.
If we were from LA, we would preface all our interstates with "the", aka there is gridlock traffic on The 64 and The 270.
STLbiggestfan wrote:Regionalisms? I've never heard a highway called anything else where I grew up (New England).
Regionalisms also account for negative view of STL because we are in Missouri (red necks, hicks, cows, Arkansas etc.)... its nice to be independent thinking and different, but when that difference makes you seen uneducated or anything else unflattering (which i perceive farty does) .. that’s bad..
I see as directly relating to another post i had a while ago where i asked the question of changing IL - 255, MO - 370, Mo-364 and others into interstates. There is a mental block in STL that prevents us from calling interstates what they really are and making roads that are built to interstates specifications "interstates" by designation or title.... I think its still the small town mentality (what highschool did you go to etc). Chicago is horrible with highway designation (they are all in consensuses on the name -- but it doesn't make it any easier to navigate if your unfamiliar) on mapquest etc it says "I-55" but when you listen to any traffic report its the "Eisenhower" or the "Ike".. maybe this is good for them but I wish we would just have "I-XX" or "I-xxx" for all the highways... any consistency would makes it a LOT easier for visitors - as well as locals.
As for the multimodal center (which this thread is about) … I think it’s a HUGE step to be going in the correct direction, (location doesn’t bother me – its not in a horrible neighbor hood… and if the entrance is on the side facing Scottrade center – people will be a lot less apprehensive than it either being where it is now or facing the train tracks) but I think that MOST of the grey hound busses should be routed here… as opposed to the airport. The Greyhound station at the airport is pathetic… route the people here and if they need a train they can ride metro there. And work some deal out with Greyhound and Amtrak that if you come in on a Greyhound bus or Amtrak that a ticket on Metro is ½ price (encouraging visitors to use light rail)
Something I noticed when giving directions the other day:
I refered to it as "64/40" (without articulating the slash). I think this stems from my girflriend being from the Metro East and me being from this side. I've had to give directions so much (I am the "know it all") that I just use this so all parties know what the hell I'm talking about.
Who needs a signature when you have theme music...
I think it's a little silly to get caught up in how a roadway is designated and then to assume extra-regional opinion is tied to how the region desinates its roadways. But, then again, I'm a silly person, and tend to think about these things as well.
Based on my observations over the years, St. Louis has a tendency to call all of its controlled-access roadways "highways." Highway 70, Highway 44, Highway 40.
I think that changing the local vernacular is a difficult proposition, no matter how much the state promotes changing the "official" name. "64" already reads as such along the roadway, but still everyone calls it "40." Even if local traffic reporters are urged by the state to call the "New I-64", "64", will they eventually revert to "40" due to confusion among the masses or by the masses refusal to adapt?
Using LA as an example, not all of its freeways are interstates. The 55, Costa Mesa, Freeway is not an interstate, but it is a designated "freeway." Interstates are designated as such based on federal funding. If MO364, MO370 and IL255 are designated as they are currently, I would venture to guess they have not been approved to join the interstate funding system.
I bring this up because using a more general term for the existing controlled-access system, such as "freeway" or "expressway" (using existing/former names such as the Daniel Boone Expressway 64, Mark Twain Expressway 70, or Ozark Expressway 55) may be a better way to go than just using the "Interstate" designation, especially when the St. Louis system is becoming more dynamic with both state and federally funded controlled-access roadways. And, if you don't like the current/former names, perhaps changing them is in order, or simply naming the roadways using the 55 Expressway or 55 Freeway examples.
But, changing the regional language relative to the system is not something that will change overnight.
I really don't get why this is such an important issue for some. Who else, other than some St. Louisians are dishing crap out to those St. Louisians who do say "highway forty".
Regional phrases or accents only adds color and self identity to a region. People from Brooklyn or Boston don't apologize for their accents. Surely no Texans, New Orleaners or Southern "hoosiers" are loosing sleep regarding other's opinions of their accents. Nor are too many Americans concerned that our usage of the language doesn't exactly conform to the King's English.
When did St. Louisian become so overly self concience? This debate is really getting old. Just say I-64 or "Forty" as one darn well pleases.
tbspqr wrote:i dont wanna be considered a "south city hoosier" or any of that by saying "farty"
P.S. this usage of hoosier is itself a regional Missouri usage. The word refers to residents of Indiana and not stereotypical poor rural uneducated masses. Kind of ironic isn't it.
People from Brooklyn, Boston and Texas are proud of where they are from. I am NOT proud to be from Missouri... I live in rolla and when people as I say I live in St. Louis, go to school in Rolla... I think thats the thing that bugs me the most...
And I know if all the news casters were to refer to it as "I-64" and they were to take down the shields for "farty" - people would refer to it that way for some time...
And Mo 370 was designed as an interstate - but the Feds wanted it to be I-870.... becuase it loops around St. Charles (which would constitute an even 1st number, not a "3" which would be a spur into an area") And to my understanding MO 364 will become I-364 once they complete the 2nd and then 3rd phase... IL-255 is built to interstate standards but I am not sure about the redesignation....
Whether it happens or even if people start calling them "Highway 64" or whatever... i just think it says a lot about the mind set of the area that we can't even call a road by its proper name....
tbspqr wrote:Whether it happens or even if people start calling them "Highway 64" or whatever... i just think it says a lot about the mind set of the area that we can't even call a road by its proper name....
Well tbspqr, I concur with just about everything james said before you. I actually take a bit of pride in calling I-64 "highway forty". As it has been said, its "local color." Anyways, the I-64 designation was foisted onto the highway only 15 years ago, and I think everyone agrees that the highway is not of interstate caliber.
I've only got one more thing to say: Bernard F. Dickman bridge.
for those not aware... the Bernard F. Dickman bridge is the official name for what is commonly called the "Poplar Street Bridge"...
I take that comment - but I would hate to have Captain Rodger Brand's Jetcopter morning news reports every morning say "the Bernard F. Dickman bridge is backed up...." I would prefer if we got a new bridge, the MRB, to name is something easy...
But bridges are not the same... not often do I give directions - "Go over the Poplar Street Bridge" it would be "Go on I-64 into Illinois...." or what ever... the highway --
Anyways, the I-64 designation was foisted onto the highway only 15 years ago, and I think everyone agrees that the highway is not of interstate caliber.
I agree but by Oct 2010, it will be up to interstate caliber... and hopefully then some.... hopefully it will be a 1st class job that St. Louisans can be proud of.... and then I hope EVERYONE embraces I-64...
I'll just say that I did a 20-page term paper about the St. Louis dialect when I was in college and throughout my research I learned that our accents are very urban in nature, and stand in stark contrast to the region surrounding us. Especially in older speakers who grew up in or near the city, the St. Louis accent is nasal, northern and gritty, not unlike Chicago, Philadelphia or Baltimore. Read on:
The city of St. Louis is located squarely in the South Midland region, but it has long been recognized as a center of Northern linguistic influence. On most Atlas maps, the St. Louis speakers show features that are held in common with the North, notable particularly in the long high and mid vowels, and there a corridor of northern influence that runs from northern Illinois to St. Louis (see Map 1). However, the specific configuration of St. Louis vowel system is local to the city in several respects. The most remarkable of these is a merger of /ahr/ and /ohr/ in card and cord, usually at the level of the mid vowel. This merger appears to be waning among younger speakers, and the vowel system seems to be shifting even more in the direction of the Inland North.
JivecitySTL wrote:Especially in older speakers who grew up in or near the city, the St. Louis accent is nasal, northern and gritty
I totally agree! I spent some time with my mother's family on Tuesday, who grew up in North City, and it was cracking me up that they all sounded the same. There's definitely a nasal sound to it, and they have an accent that I've never heard from a person my age. And they all say FARTY.
tbspqr wrote:People from Brooklyn, Boston and Texas are proud of where they are from. I am NOT proud to be from Missouri... I live in rolla and when people as I say I live in St. Louis, go to school in Rolla...
I can sympathize with you about Rolla. I'm a UMR alumni and spent many of my prime years in Rolla.
But seriously why not be proud of St. Louis? Surely the region has it's faults, but we have a proud history and the phoenix of St. Louis is beginning to rise from the ashes of the last few decades.
NOT proud to be from Missouri... I live in rolla and when people as I say I live in St. Louis, go to school in Rolla...
