Would it better for the city if it renamed Dr. Martin Luther King Drive to its original name? I think it holds a negative connotation with a lot of people in the region and North St. Louis will continue to struggle to get new development as long as the street represents a dividing line.
maybe we can turn St. Louis MLK drive into the best urban retail street in the nation!? I dream..look at old photo's of Easton ave, let's recreate that retail! more immigrants please! whatever color!
stlmizzoutiger wrote:Would it better for the city if it renamed Dr. Martin Luther King Drive to its original name? I think it holds a negative connotation with a lot of people in the region and North St. Louis will continue to struggle to get new development as long as the street represents a dividing line.
Why don't we rename Wash Ave, MLK Ave. That way we can give Dr. King a street worthy of his name
. Personally I agree with JCity on this one, why not try to redevelop a street worthy of Dr. Kings name. Is reverting back to a prior name really going to change anyones perception of North city.Name means nothing. A new one will not spur redevelopment. Moreover, any proposal would be political suicide. Why not rename Hall of Fame Place?
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there is/was a video on pubdef with a guy driving through MLK and he was pretty positive about widening the sidewalks and getting retail there. I guess plans fell through? Hopefully something does get done about it because he had some good ideas.
Considering the current name honors one of the greatest Americans to walk on soil, no.
I wasn't going to comment on this, but I've pondered this very topic/issue for some time...
It's pretty unfortunate that for whatever reason, some of the cities who have streets or avenues named after MLK Jr. experience negative urban experiences. The honor of having these streets named after him should inspire people to do the right thing to honor MLK's memory. I'm serious... how many of these streets in our country run through the 'hood, or only a portion of the city?
In my hometown (Rock Island, IL), a portion of 9th Street was renamed MLK Blvd. sometime during my formative years (1980s). The street runs from north near the Mississippi River well into the southern part of RI; the portion renamed is in the 'hood part of RI.
I've never spent much time on MLK Ave in St. Louis, but I'm well aware that the majority of it separates North St. Louis, which some consider the 'hood, from downtown? Am I way off on this? I'm not trying to incite anything.
Anyway, I don't think the avenue should be renamed. (I could've just said that from the outset, but I wanted to share and see if anyone wanted to address my thoughts...)
It's pretty unfortunate that for whatever reason, some of the cities who have streets or avenues named after MLK Jr. experience negative urban experiences. The honor of having these streets named after him should inspire people to do the right thing to honor MLK's memory. I'm serious... how many of these streets in our country run through the 'hood, or only a portion of the city?
In my hometown (Rock Island, IL), a portion of 9th Street was renamed MLK Blvd. sometime during my formative years (1980s). The street runs from north near the Mississippi River well into the southern part of RI; the portion renamed is in the 'hood part of RI.
I've never spent much time on MLK Ave in St. Louis, but I'm well aware that the majority of it separates North St. Louis, which some consider the 'hood, from downtown? Am I way off on this? I'm not trying to incite anything.
Anyway, I don't think the avenue should be renamed. (I could've just said that from the outset, but I wanted to share and see if anyone wanted to address my thoughts...)
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Keep the name. But perhaps, as an expedient, allow abriviated variants of the full name to be used, so we might variously call the drive,
Martin Luther King Drive,
or MLK Drive,
or Martin Drive,
or Luther Drive,
or King Drive.
The full name is too long to fit on a street sign.
Martin Luther King Drive,
or MLK Drive,
or Martin Drive,
or Luther Drive,
or King Drive.
The full name is too long to fit on a street sign.
I thought the signs near downtown just read MLK Ave. Am I way off? (I haven't driven down there in awhile and I've been out of St. Louis for close to a year.)
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coachjw wrote:It's pretty unfortunate that for whatever reason, some of the cities who have streets or avenues named after MLK Jr. experience negative urban experiences. The honor of having these streets named after him should inspire people to do the right thing to honor MLK's memory. I'm serious... how many of these streets in our country run through the 'hood, or only a portion of the city?
A few years ago, there was a book published called <I>Along Martin Luther King: Travels on Black America's Main Street</i>, written by a journalist named Jonathan Tilove, which was composed mainly of interviews and photographs illustrating life on the numerous MLK streets around the country. Though generally looking for positive aspects to highlight, it inevitably mentioned Chris Rock's take on the subject:
Stretches of many King streets have a ragged, wasted quality to them. The comedian Chris Rock famously advised, “If a friend calls you on the telephone and says they’re lost on Martin Luther King Boulevard and they want to know what they should do, the best response is ‘Run!’ ” It has become a commonplace of popular culture to identify a Martin Luther King street as a generic marker of black space and, not incidentally, of ruin, as a sad and ironic signpost of danger, failure, and decline, and as a rueful rebuke of a people’s preoccupation with symbolic victories over actual progress.
Interestingly, Tilove noted that, even when it was agreed that a street should be re-named in favor of King, there was sometimes controversy among the supporters of the proposition as to whether they should select a street in a traditionally black neighborhood or one in a prominent central location that would be used by people of all ethnicities. Typically, one group argued that the MLK street should be in a black neighborhood so that it would be a source of inspiration and pride to the people already living there, whereas the other argued that this was tantamount to saying that King's legacy was only of significance to black Americans and would further reinforce the perception that MLK streets are often associated with inner-city decay.
^ Hugh, thanks for sharing that! I've just requested the book from my public library here.
I doubt that cities and towns purposely rename the streets MLK just because they're in predominately black neighborhoods, but I could be naive about that because I do tend to look to the positive.
I doubt that cities and towns purposely rename the streets MLK just because they're in predominately black neighborhoods, but I could be naive about that because I do tend to look to the positive.
I've never spent much time on MLK Ave in St. Louis, but I'm well aware that the majority of it separates North St. Louis, which some consider the 'hood, from downtown? Am I way off on this? I'm not trying to incite anything.
MLK doesn't separate anything but "the hood", unfortunately. this street has TONS of potential. ANYONE who reads this forum should drive down it, it's incredible. I'd love to see what it used to look like. anyone have pictures?
^Are you flying the flag on the back of your 1990 F-150? Have a gun rack?
MLK is a Black Street. The area should be Black just as the Annie Malone parade should be in the Ville and the real St. Patricks Day Parade is in Dogtown, the Irish Neighborhood. There is nothing wrong with ethnic neighborhoods insofar as they have the internal ability, through social networks, to achieve economic success. The International Institute, for example, helps makes this possible for new arrivals.
The difference between the Irish and African Americans revolves around initial status. The Irish didn't arrive here as slaves and quickly gained local office and higher. They were politically incorporated and in many cases ran institutions. African Americans, locally and Nationally, had quite the opposite outcome. They were and are institutionally marginalized. Being on the fringes of power and wealth means you have fewer resources. At the onset of suburbanization, deindustrialization, New Federalism, and the War on Drugs, this becomes a large yoke crippling the African American community and their ability to solve problems, thereby limiting their power in the greater polity. The result of this being they loose influence and ability to control who gets what.
This explains why THF Boulevard looks nice and MLK looks like sh*t. It's not simply the result of individual mismanagement.
You talk about renaming MLK Drive. Reinvestment that attracts back the African American middle class must occur. The solution does not involve gentrification. Chris Rock's observations are correct but is the solution to bring in a bunch of what George Carlin calls "lame ass white dudes?"
Regarding the state of the local African American community, talk to the Roberts Brothers about that. But they're busy instilling their legacy via Mike Roberts Jr. and demolition. Also Rodney Hubbard but he's currently at the bank counting his money. A deficiency of leadership exists. I view this as resulting from again the system of discrimination. This is not to excuse these leaders, but rather explains their priorities. It's no longer about the community. That didn't work.
MLK is a Black Street. The area should be Black just as the Annie Malone parade should be in the Ville and the real St. Patricks Day Parade is in Dogtown, the Irish Neighborhood. There is nothing wrong with ethnic neighborhoods insofar as they have the internal ability, through social networks, to achieve economic success. The International Institute, for example, helps makes this possible for new arrivals.
The difference between the Irish and African Americans revolves around initial status. The Irish didn't arrive here as slaves and quickly gained local office and higher. They were politically incorporated and in many cases ran institutions. African Americans, locally and Nationally, had quite the opposite outcome. They were and are institutionally marginalized. Being on the fringes of power and wealth means you have fewer resources. At the onset of suburbanization, deindustrialization, New Federalism, and the War on Drugs, this becomes a large yoke crippling the African American community and their ability to solve problems, thereby limiting their power in the greater polity. The result of this being they loose influence and ability to control who gets what.
This explains why THF Boulevard looks nice and MLK looks like sh*t. It's not simply the result of individual mismanagement.
You talk about renaming MLK Drive. Reinvestment that attracts back the African American middle class must occur. The solution does not involve gentrification. Chris Rock's observations are correct but is the solution to bring in a bunch of what George Carlin calls "lame ass white dudes?"
Regarding the state of the local African American community, talk to the Roberts Brothers about that. But they're busy instilling their legacy via Mike Roberts Jr. and demolition. Also Rodney Hubbard but he's currently at the bank counting his money. A deficiency of leadership exists. I view this as resulting from again the system of discrimination. This is not to excuse these leaders, but rather explains their priorities. It's no longer about the community. That didn't work.
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Doug wrote:The difference between the Irish and African Americans revolves around initial status. The Irish didn't arrive here as slaves and quickly gained local office and higher. They were politically incorporated and in many cases ran institutions. African Americans, locally and Nationally, had quite the opposite outcome. They were and are institutionally marginalized.
Oh yeah, it was the days of wine and roses for the Irish in America in the 1800's and early 1900's. They were treated like royalty!
Before you write about history, you really should study it first. Or continue to embarrass yourself. Your choice.
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The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Oh yeah, it was the days of wine and roses for the Irish in America in the 1800's and early 1900's. They were treated like royalty!
Before you write about history, you really should study it first. Or continue to embarrass yourself. Your choice.
You talk about renaming MLK Drive. Reinvestment that attracts back the African American middle class must occur. The solution does not involve gentrification. Chris Rock's observations are correct but is the solution to bring in a bunch of what George Carlin calls "lame ass white dudes?"
I have to admit that for someone who rants on & on about equality many of your statements come off racist and elitist. If the people you dislike some much were a coin, you'd be the flip side.
DeBaliviere wrote:The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Oh yeah, it was the days of wine and roses for the Irish in America in the 1800's and early 1900's. They were treated like royalty!
Before you write about history, you really should study it first. Or continue to embarrass yourself. Your choice.
And how long did that last? A few decades at the most.
Hibernians certainly received discrimination but it was not institutionalized over hundreds of years nor did the affects extend beyond the first generation.
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Doug wrote:DeBaliviere wrote:The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Oh yeah, it was the days of wine and roses for the Irish in America in the 1800's and early 1900's. They were treated like royalty!
Before you write about history, you really should study it first. Or continue to embarrass yourself. Your choice.
And how long did that last? A few decades at the most.
Hibernians certainly received discrimination but it was not institutionalized over hundreds of years nor did the affects extend beyond the first generation.
You probably missed this the first time:
Before you write about history, you really should study it first. Or continue to embarrass yourself. Your choice.
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Doug wrote:This explains why THF Boulevard looks nice and MLK looks like sh*t.
Wow, Doug! I didn't expect you to say that THF Boulevard looks nice!
What's become of the city's plans to make improvements along Dr. Martin Luther King Drive? I lament that the current state of the economy would probably make a large scale transformation much more difficult to achieve, but hopefully significant progress can occur along this route someday soon.
Although I obviously cannot speak for Dr. King, nor would I ever be presumptuous enough to think I was doing so, I believe his vision for the street that bears his name would be a thriving place for people of all races and ethnic backgrounds. Infrastructure improvements are great, reinvestment along the street is even better, but to me the vision of a diverse and prosperous thoroughfare should be the ultimate goal.
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^at the risk of sounding ignorant, what is THF Blvd?
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southsidepride wrote:^at the risk of sounding ignorant, what is THF Blvd?
No, that's not ignorant, although this may be a case where ignorance really is bliss IMHO:
THF Boulevard is the main entrance/outer road serving Chesterfield Commons, which is one of my most-hated developments in Greater St. Louis for many reasons.
^^I'm fairly certain there are several THF Boulevards, Avenues, etc. THF is the developer for everything Wal-Mart or Sam's Club and the strip malls adjacent to them. THF stands for To Have Fun, if you were wondering... 
southsidepride wrote:^at the risk of sounding ignorant, what is THF Blvd?
I'm glad you asked... I was feeling kinda dumb too!
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Thanks for clearing that up for me. That's even worse than Whittaker pushing St. Charles to rename Airport Rd. to New Town Blvd.