Lets face it guys St. Louis and St. Louis County need a merger. If we dont merge we will continue to be known as the "small big city" forever and continue to be a complete joke when it comes to development, population growth, and diversity. Everyone in this town wants there own banana stand and this only promotes stagnation and non progressive attitudes. What will have to be done to make this happen?

Reading the Ballpark Village Blog on StlToday I was surprised to see that many people in the city and county are pissed and want change.

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/talk-o ... /#comments

I think this is the kind of change we need and it can only benefit the community as a whole. These greedy politicians and far right conservatives are not gonna bring up this issue on the election ballot, but I think there are a lot of people in the St. Louis area that want this. Part of the reason St. Louis City and Downtown in particular sees so little development is because people in the County view the City as a completely different world and almost foreign entity. This must stop if St. Louis expects to ever be world class again and it would also improve our clout in Jeff City.

A thread on a City/County merger... haven't seen that before.



Don't bother reading the stltoday blog talkback it seriously lowers your IQ after a few minutes.

brickandmortar wrote:A thread on a City/County merger... haven't seen that before.



Don't bother reading the stltoday blog talkback it seriously lowers your IQ after a few minutes.

Brickandmortar I appreciate your optimism This is a issue that should always be relevant until it is solved. I'm not complacent with it so I will talk about if I choose and the stltoday blog can be bad, but I was actually surprised how many people actually cared about BPV.

What's in it for the City?

As Yeardley Smith said to Herman on Herman's Head, "I have the urge. The urge to merge."

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:What's in it for the county?

a larger population base and more political clout in State politics. Counties with larger populations get more consideration for federal funding too. St. Louis would also get a shitload of PR from some sort of merger. If you are implying that there are no benefits in a merger or that the poor city would just be a tax burden...you are short sighted and foolish. Or maybe there is a reason they call you the Central Scrutinizer, it is your job to scrutinize

Don't play me for a fool, that fact is St. Louis will never be a major metropolitan area again until this happens. We just need less division and less politicians, wouldn't you agree that St. Louis needs change?

There's a lot of positives and negatives for both sides. However, don't look at the sides, look at what a merger could do for the region as a whole.

MattnSTL wrote:There's a lot of positives and negatives for both sides. However, don't look at the sides, look at what a merger could do for the region as a whole.

exactly!

MERGER MERGER MERGER

/FUTILE FUTILE FUTILE

ftfy

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:

MattnSTL wrote:There's a lot of positives and negatives for both sides. However, don't look at the sides, look at what a merger could do for the region as a whole.

The people in the county don't see it that way. Why would they want to take on a failing school system, higher crime rate, etc?

But wouldn't the school system remain independent of all the other school districts?

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:

MattnSTL wrote:There's a lot of positives and negatives for both sides. However, don't look at the sides, look at what a merger could do for the region as a whole.

The people in the county don't see it that way. Why would they want to take on a failing school system, higher crime rate, etc?

Why would the City want to take on urban sprawl, racial politics, and obvious ignorance You see Scrutinizer, your from the old school of status quo ass thought. I know something as progressive as a merger may be hard for you to swallow, but I guarantee the benefits will heavily outweigh the bad. Scrutinizer....what do I have to do to convince you that the failing school system, high crime rates, etc, etc, etc that you speak of so elegantly.......like I have never heard of them before are all a result of social isolation and white flight that plagued us for the last 50 years and you seem to be basically content with the way things are.

Now I like to respect everyone's point of view and don't like to come to conclusions about people I barely know through internet forums, but from what I have read I have concluded that either:

A) You have a short sighted and self serving ideology when regarding this region, which is the last thing this town needs.

B) Your just plain stupid with racial undertones.

C) You hate the city and were abused as a child

or

D) All of the above

You see I'm a different type of person, I like to be optimistic even when I feel down. Sometimes I can get angry on this thread, but its all out of love for my city. I also think in the long term there is nothing you or anybody else could say that would make me think that a city/county merger is bad or a "stupid far flung" idea, because that is the kind of attitude that has gotten this city in the shape it is to day. St. Louis a city that was built for the world class has fallen from grace, because people like YOU SCRUTINIZER have embraced the ideology of "us vs. them" attitudes, Instead of recognizing that the crumby little city of 350,000 is the reason that YOU even participate on this forum.

DeBaliviere wrote:

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:

MattnSTL wrote:There's a lot of positives and negatives for both sides. However, don't look at the sides, look at what a merger could do for the region as a whole.

The people in the county don't see it that way. Why would they want to take on a failing school system, higher crime rate, etc?

But wouldn't the school system remain independent of all the other school districts?

Yeah, I suppose. But it's all about perception. Bad schools, crime, etc...

This issue has been talked about countless times. For it to work, municipalities must maintain a good level of independence akin to federalism. For it to make sense for both the city and county, there must be consolidation of services. Revenue distribution would have to be carefully looked at and most would need to stay in that municipality.



It'd be a tough political sell due to the number of people that could potentially be effected.

County voters would never approve a merger. City voters wouldn't either, that is if the effort to streamline government and eliminate patronage offices was any indication.



Efforts would be better spent building city-county partnerships in specific areas akin to the zoo-museum district or the community college system. I think county voters could be coninced to support a merged, city-county police force, but only because they might assume that cops in the crime-plagued city know more about law enforcement.

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:

innov8ion wrote:This issue has been talked about countless times. For it to work, municipalities must maintain a good level of independence akin to federalism. For it to make sense for both the city and county, there must be consolidation of services. Revenue distribution would have to be carefully looked at and most would need to stay in that municipality.



It'd be a tough political sell due to the number of people that could potentially be effected.

/Start goat314



You obviously "have a short sighted and self serving ideology when regarding this region, which is the last thing this town needs".



Oh, and you're a racist too.



/end

Central stop throwing around your weight on this forum just because you got some fanclub here. Obviously you don't know me....thank god and from what I have seen I don't like you man. What do you mean "you're racist too"? If you actually read what I posted you would see that I barely made implications to race and definitely didn't outright call you a racist, but since "I'm a racist too" I guess you just snitched on your self. Actually I don't care what you say, because I told you not to post in threads I started if your going to talk to me condescendingly.

Both of you stop.

dutchtowner wrote:County voters would never approve a merger. City voters wouldn't either, that is if the effort to streamline government and eliminate patronage offices was any indication.



Efforts would be better spent building city-county partnerships in specific areas akin to the zoo-museum district or the community college system. I think county voters could be coninced to support a merged, city-county police force, but only because they might assume that cops in the crime-plagued city know more about law enforcement.

Agreed. At this point in time, it would get less than 40% in both the City and County. There needs to be improvement in the City with respect to crime, education, and infrastructure before the County will take it seriously. But perhaps more importantly we need to dramatically raise the tax base in the City so the merger is seen as a partnership, instead of just County dollars going to City problems.

Roy314 wrote:

dutchtowner wrote:County voters would never approve a merger. City voters wouldn't either, that is if the effort to streamline government and eliminate patronage offices was any indication.



Efforts would be better spent building city-county partnerships in specific areas akin to the zoo-museum district or the community college system. I think county voters could be coninced to support a merged, city-county police force, but only because they might assume that cops in the crime-plagued city know more about law enforcement.

Agreed. At this point in time, it would get less than 40% in both the City and County. There needs to be improvement in the City with respect to crime, education, and infrastructure before the County will take it seriously. But perhaps more importantly we need to dramatically raise the tax base in the City so the merger is seen as a partnership, instead of just County dollars going to City problems.

I don't think significant enough changes with respect to infrastructure, education, and crime can be made without the merger, so basically it is a hopeless cause . I hope people in the St. Louis area are not so selfish that they would not be willing to make a selfless decision to benefit the well being of the area. If Indy and Louisville can do it St. Louis should be able to do it. If not then the region is a hopeless cause, because at this point I only see things getting worst without some sort of drastic change. There are way too many politicians in St. Louis and not enough difference makers.

goat314 wrote: I don't think significant enough changes with respect to infrastructure, education, and crime can be made without the merger, so basically it is a hopeless cause . I hope people in the St. Louis area are not so selfish that they would not be willing to make a selfless decision to benefit the well being of the area. If Indy and Louisville can do it St. Louis should be able to do it. If not then the region is a hopeless cause, because at this point I only see things getting worst without some sort of drastic change. There are way too many politicians in St. Louis and not enough difference makers.

The merger is the Ballpark Village of local governance.



We spend a lot of time here in St. Louis looking for drastic quick fixes. Then we spend enormous amounts of emotional capital trying to convince everyone that the quick fix is the only way to turn the City around. When it doesn't work out, we throw our hands in the air (and some of us flee to Chicago).



Big projects/endeavors are sometimes the way to go, and when they are possible we should absolutely go for it. However, we shouldn't wait for these big projects to occur before taking our own actions to improve the City.



Imagine what this City would be like if we had ten more like Joe Edwards. Ten people could make an enormous impact in St. Louis.