Ballpark Village

Downtown construction activity, including hotel projects, major renovations, office projects, streetscape improvements, etc.
First unread post3474 posts
jshank83 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:15 pm
There are plenty of Dierbergs, Aldis, Walmarts, Trader Joe's, etc around for competition. I'd also rather see the money stay in town with a local chain than go to an out of town one.
Not in the city there aren't. There are a few Aldis but Aldis have limited stock. None of those others have locations in the city.

jbacott wrote: Not to mention Lucky's, Fresh Thyme, Target, Fields Foods, Whole Foods, etc.

Grocery is probably one of the most highly competitive retail industries out there and Schnucks is aggressively pursuing it. I'd agree with above, it's not a bad thing to spend money and the one locally based company in the mix (aside from Fields Foods, I guess)
I'm all for Fields Foods expanding, but currently there's one store. And one small Whole Foods. And one Target with a limited selection. Again, Lucky's and Fresh Thyme don't exist in the city.

Look, I'd be fine with Schnuck's if they carried more vegetarian/healthy food options and made some kind of effort to update their stores but they don't. And in most of the city Schnucks is the closest option, especially if you can't/don't want to drive. I shop at the South Grand Schnucks b/c I can walk there. And if I want a marginally less depressing experience I drive to the Loughborough Commons store.
I live near Tower grove and they just re-did their store on the Hill. I think its fine and its still not as nice as the Longborough Commons store. I have definitely seen them redoing a lot of their stores.

Based on what I see when I go visit my parents (who live in a pretty nice suburb in another rust belt city), I'm pretty sure that's just how middle-grade grocery stores look across the Midwest. I don't know what you're expecting from them exactly.
^ I haven't been to the Arsenal store in a while. They remodeled about 1/3 of the Loughborough store, and that section looks nice. But the rest just feels depressing, IMO. For mid-grade stores I guess I'm comparing to the Wegmans, Food Lions, Safeways, and Giants that I've shopped at while living in VA (Richmond/Charlottesville) and CO (Boulder). Granted I only sampled a handful of them, but none of them felt as depressing as Schnucks. Again, IMHO. My spouse (from Richmond) feels the same. And I know that many people can't afford to shop at Whole Foods (myself included these days) but WF really nailed the aesthetic. Compared to any of the mid-tier stores, shopping at WF is a pleasure. I don't understand why more of the mid-tier stores don't emulate WF's decor. In terms of local chains I think Dierbergs is pretty good but, again, they don't seem interested in opening any city stores.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread any more so that's all I'll say.
I think the problem is that the S. Grand Schnucks is just a lot older than most. Twenty years ago it was one of the nice ones. The Hampton Village store is pretty nice. The Gravois store is fine. The trouble is that the other larger chains mostly keep folding up or moving out of town. There are some other smaller options. Strouds is local, if you want upscale. I haven't been there in years upon years, but I recall them being nice. Target, being a big box, isn't going to open that many locations in an area as small as the city. For BPV I'd say the competition is Strouds, Fields Foods, and out of town.

But it's funny that you'd think of Schnucks as crummy. In CoMO (which I am presently visiting) the locals seem to think of them as the fancy expensive store. (With the competition being Gerbes, Hyvee, Mosers, Aldi, and a few immigrant mom and pops. And there are plenty of those in St. Louis as well. And s variety of discount grocers and specialty markets. But BPV is getting upscale chain. There really are no other options. So . . . Schnucks is fine by me. This won't be your neighborhood Schnucks. It will be more fresh and trendy and hip. Sounds to me like they want a piece of that action. (Can't let Strouds have it all. Or . . . *gasp* Denver.)
^I think you mean Straub's.
I have never seen so much within-chain-variation-in-quality as in Schnucks.
You do see a massive difference between say the Clayton/Arsenal stores and the SoGrand-Gravois/CWE ones.
We used to go to the South Grand-Gravois Schnucks, but stopped doing so after there was a parking lot shooting while we were inside the store.
^ Very true- When i worked at MoDOT in Chesterfield i went to the Schnucks at Clayton Rd/141 and the diffrence from even Hampton Village was stark. hard food flooring in the wine section, the deli counter had a sandwich shop and there was an actual sit down counter with a menu of various things you can order, kind of like the CWE whole foods.
One Cardinal Way from Hotel Saint Louis' FORM Rooftop Bar

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Any new progress shots? Haven't seen any in quite some time. Really wish Paric would just make the cams public lol.
The Mayor wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:33 pm
Any new progress shots? Haven't seen any in quite some time. Really wish Paric would just make the cams public lol.
I plan on heading down tomorrow afternoon.
Here are progress photos from today. Sorry I am sharing them late.

Pennant Building & Loews
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One Cardinal Way
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And then there are these cool shots...
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Change is already evident and it will only get better. The office building is to be another 3/4ths taller than the garage and the Culinaria/Fitness building will begin soon and top out around the same height as the Phase 1 Building.
^ Looking good. Thanks for the update. Can't wait to start seeing some steel. That panoramic is going to look good once things progress a bit more.
The Mayor wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:45 am
^ Looking good. Thanks for the update. Can't wait to start seeing some steel. That panoramic is going to look good once things progress a bit more.
Steel will go up on the office building and will form the frame for the Culinaria and Fitness building, so not much, but it will be pleasant to watch. This panorama shot will look better in another month.
^ I was assuming steel would be on the residential portion as well, but now that I think about it I suppose a concrete frame makes more sense.
Should look pretty neat going up either way.
I found these 2 new renderings on Ballpark Village's redesigned website. One is of the Live Hotel and Pennant Building with a significantly redesigned fitness/market building with a rock wall outside and funky glass. The Rawlings Logo has also made a return.

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Then there is this one. It is under the office building page and shows the Pennant Building's lobby looking North. The first leak of Phase 3.
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These two renderings, that I once assumed were the lobby of the office building, is in fact the mezzanine lobby from the parking garage hence the shorter ceilings.
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^Nice catch! And thank you!
symphonicpoet wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:53 pm
^Nice catch! And thank you!
Thanks and You're welcome.

I have reached out to some people inside of Cordish, especially one woman who has gotten back to me a lot, about the lobby render and the building outside. No response yet.
chriss752 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:49 pm
Then there is this one. It is under the office building page and shows the Pennant Building's lobby looking North. The first leak of Phase 3.
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I have went back and reviewed the blue print documents (SLDC Planroom) that I hold from earlier this year and I can't see how this lobby will fit into the Pennant Building. There are a number of reasons why I can't see this happening...
1. The current height of the lobby is 18FT. Based on these plans, and the man walking in the background, these ceilings would have to be at most 24FT and at least 22FT unless the man is shorter than average (5FT, 9.5in).
2. The current layout of the first floor prevents the lobby from having the design that it does in this rendering. There are too many columns to close together to make this work out.
3. The parking garage elevator would literarily be where the two men talking are.
4. The windows wouldn't have the much of an unobstructed view outdoors as the decorative brick "pillars" are thick and would be quite chunky from the indoors thus reducing overall light intake.
5. No plans, as of currently, have showed a lobby at the corner of the building. They have always showed it slightly off.
6. There is no fountain being built in the center of the street outside the windows. The fountains will be built at intersections and not in the middle of the street.
7. The building's design (outside the windows) looks like the Loews Hotel did before it's redesign.

Now, I'm not saying it's unreleased plans but I think they are. If not, this is a rendering of an alternate building design that we never saw proposed. Personally, I wonder if another office building was planned where the fitness center and market is going in at and this lobby is of the building that we never saw. Either way, this is a mystery and the plans surrounding it may not be fully known until construction is finished and/or wrapping up. Until it's all done, I'm going to label this rendering as mysterious as there are too many inconsistencies between it and the actual plans. The actual plans closely resemble this render...
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Just thought I'd share the A's plans for a new "Jewell Box" ballpark in Oakland, designed by Bjarke Ingels Group (only 34,000 seats, BTW).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/as ... spartandhp

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^ That is just...regrettable.

Back at our ballpark though, the Business Journal got an inside look at the ongoing construction of BPV II.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... s-260.html
framer wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:27 pm
Just thought I'd share the A's plans for a new "Jewell Box" ballpark in Oakland, designed by Bjarke Ingels Group (only 34,000 seats, BTW).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/as ... spartandhp

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Framer, San Fran blog site "socketsite" commentary on the proposed Jewel box stadium. First preference was a location next to Downtown Oakland/Chinatown/Lake Merritt area. Thought it was a great choice but even less seats. Socketsite is like a hybrid of nextstl and urbanstl out here in bay. But a lot of commentary on the Jewel box.

The area around Howard Street Terminal is similar to Cupples warehouse district in regards to being an old industrial area (still majority light industry) but without some of the great brick Cupples warehouses that were saved.

http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2018 ... lpark.html
^The stadium itself seems interesting, if small. The buildings around it strike me as somewhat uncomfortable from that rendering, but it's not what I would call a great rendering. Not a lot of detail. Maybe not the most flattering angle. Surely not the one from which people would typically see it. From ground level I would guess the stadium will look like a pretty standard contemporary glass thing, not unlike some of the proposed stadiums here. Better than the riverfront thing the Rams would have gotten if they'd stayed. The "public park" along the top of the thing is a strange concept. I'm curious if it would be free and open on game days. (The answer would almost have to be no, I would think. But maybe I'm wrong there.) But I can't even really quite make out what the cladding materials are supposed to be on any of the surrouding stuff. Better renderings are really called for. But really, the stadium may be the only thing that's not filler. Probably a phased project and doubtless what's around it is subject to change. (Thus explaining the lack of detail and unpleasant genericness.)

Really, it's not a bad project at all. And if they can get it without public financing? Bravo! And while 34,000 seats is really pretty small . . . well, their average attendance last year was barely more than half that. 19427 in a year where they finished .599. They presently have the eighth largest park in MLB and the fourth lowest attendance at 1.57 million. (They were second lowest last year at under 1.48. Also well under .500 in 2017, so . . . that's a little less surprising.) I'm a bit surprised it's that bad, given that they're fairly perennial contenders, but it's been an awfully long time since they won. Unlike the cross bay crew, which is really a much more storied franchise anyway. (And wins a lot more. And has a much much larger payroll. Funny that.) They really do need to right-size their park. I'm pretty sure they're the last team still in a multi-purpose. (Can't really think who else still is.)
Good thing Bjarke isn't designing anything in St. Louis because his designs are FUGLY. The building designs presented in Oakland's Ballpark are other designs that he has mashed together for Oakland, and they don't look good from other designs that are similar to this that he has done.

But back to Ballpark Village, The Business Journal ran a story the other day that has pictures of the current construction progress. It's give you a better look than I can provide.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... s-260.html
Disagree completely with the Oakland stadium design hate. Is it traditional? Nope. Would it work in St. Louis? Absolutely not. But, I think it is great for Oakland and matches the tech / non-traditional vibe. A stadium like this would only work in certain cities but I actually really love the design and uniqueness.