Ballpark Village

Downtown construction activity, including hotel projects, major renovations, office projects, streetscape improvements, etc.
First unread post3428 posts
Chalupas54 wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:57 am
dweebe wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:01 am
Chalupas54 wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:18 pm
Not to be an alarmist, but I have always noted the extensive lack of security measures at major St Louis events and venues. Busch Stadium's security is mandated by the MLB. I really do think BPV should have metal detectors on game days, and anti-truck barriers should be placed on Clark if they aren't there already.

I think many of us do tend to forget that St. Louis is a target for many harmful acts and I really think that from my perception we are not prepared to deal with one should it occur.
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. I've traveled extensively around America and been to numerous events and venues. By my rough count I've been to 11 different NHL venues, 10 MLB, 13 NFL as well as assorted college, minor league and other sports/big concert places.

I've never noticed St. Louis lacking at St. Louis events and venues. The only time I've seen noticeably heavier security was the Kentucky Derby, New Orleans Mardi Gras and the Florida Georgia game in Jacksonville. I think the Derby and Mardi Gras are marked at a Level 1 events by Homeland Security so that's why it's so heavy. The FLA/GA game is known as the "World's Largest Cocktail Party" and they need the heavy presence to handle all the drunks.

EDIT: plus concerts at Wrigley get a noticeably heavier police presence. But I think that's partly due to it being smack dab in the middle of a residential neighborhood. Other Chicagoland venues don't seem any different than St. Louis in their police coverage.
I don’t see people being shot at those events. You also don’t typically have shootings in Wrigleyville. What happened at BPV was a tragic lapse of security that will wound the city severely. The fact that Lyda, the CVB, and the metro Police are not out here giving pressers is unacceptable. Have any of you scrolled the FB and Twitter reactions to this? It’s horrible. Downtown is not the only one taking a hit from this. St Louis as a whole will have a nice black eye for a while.
I don't disagree with you on that this is being mishandled by the powers that be in St. Louis and that we're getting another black eye.

But I'm cycling back around to your alarmist accusation that other cities do a much better job with event security and heavy police presence at their big venues. I don't see what you're claiming with regards to other cities being so much better. Can you give me some examples? If anything I've noticed how much less police and security there are in other cities.

Go to a concert at an amphitheater in another city and people are openly drinking/smoking weed in the parking lot. Here in St. Louis at Riverport the Maryland Heights cops will come flying up on an ATV or golf cart to yell at you for standing too long while drinking a soda.
americancitizen wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:11 am
How badly was Vegas or the concert industry in general hurt by that domestic terrorist shooting over 500 people and killing almost 60 in a truly random act of appalling violence. I'm not asking rhetorically, I'm asking in earnest?

I believe this incident - while so very disgusting - speaks more to the BS gun/anger culture prevalent in America today and less about downtown or BPV IMO. Not a random incident. Absolutely pathetic nonetheless but in today's environment could really have happened anywhere. Which I guess speaks to a much larger problem in America today to which there is a grave lack of leadership and demand for solutions from everyone on. Its not going to get better until significant structural changes in American society get changed IMO.
Unfortunately, everyone is seeing this as a Downtown violence problem. Take one look at Facebook and Twitter. I’ve seen a lot of adverse STL bashing before, but this is by far the worst I’ve seen since Stockley. I genuinely am very concerned for BPV if the Cardinals don’t calm fears.


Responding to Dweebe, I currently live on the East Coast, I can say for a fact that Newark has way stronger security. Heavily armed police are constantly visible and bag searches are everywhere. It works. Newark has a very grim vibe, but it feels safe with the heavy police presence.

More or less, my beef with St Louis is that something isn’t working. What sets this BPV incident apart, is that this wasn’t an unavoidable terrorist incident or mass shooting attack. This could and should have been stopped. I’ve seen extensive complaints on social media of St Louis Police ‘not doing anything’ in these instances. Valid or not, these are real perceptions St Louisans have and it’s horrible.
Chalupas54 wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:25 am
Responding to Dweebe, I currently live on the East Coast, I can say for a fact that Newark has way stronger security. Heavily armed police are constantly visible and bag searches are everywhere. It works. Newark has a very grim vibe, but it feels safe with the heavy police presence.
I can kind of see what you're saying. Madison Square Garden, Yankees Stadium and others in the area do have a pretty heavy presence. Same with the arena in downtown DC plus Nationals ballpark. But that's New York City and DC with the 9/11 effect.

I will stand right alongside with you and agree that St. Louis is majorly screwed up and we need better policing. But I still don't buy that Dallas, Phoenix, San Francisco, Tampa, Minneapolis etc better police/secure their concerts and sporting events.
Chalupas54 wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:57 am

I don’t see people being shot at those events. You also don’t typically have shootings in Wrigleyville. What happened at BPV was a tragic lapse of security that will wound the city severely. The fact that Lyda, the CVB, and the metro Police are not out here giving pressers is unacceptable. Have any of you scrolled the FB and Twitter reactions to this? It’s horrible. Downtown is not the only one taking a hit from this. St Louis as a whole will have a nice black eye for a while.
You also don't typically see it happening at Ballpark Village either.

The twitter mob is going to uproar about anything like this, it obviously is going to ramp up a bit, that's how it works now. I don't believe it is going to make much of an impact on downtown once the next news story comes out. Someone got shot after a Cards game a few years ago and it didn't change much. Anyone on twitter/facebook that is saying they aren't coming downtown, wasn't coming downtown in the first place. I can't imagine there is anyone that is going to quit coming to Cardinals games or like events downtown because of this, unless it keeps happening.
Chalupas54 wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:25 am
americancitizen wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:11 am
How badly was Vegas or the concert industry in general hurt by that domestic terrorist shooting over 500 people and killing almost 60 in a truly random act of appalling violence. I'm not asking rhetorically, I'm asking in earnest?

I believe this incident - while so very disgusting - speaks more to the BS gun/anger culture prevalent in America today and less about downtown or BPV IMO. Not a random incident. Absolutely pathetic nonetheless but in today's environment could really have happened anywhere. Which I guess speaks to a much larger problem in America today to which there is a grave lack of leadership and demand for solutions from everyone on. Its not going to get better until significant structural changes in American society get changed IMO.
Unfortunately, everyone is seeing this as a Downtown violence problem. Take one look at Facebook and Twitter. I’ve seen a lot of adverse STL bashing before, but this is by far the worst I’ve seen since Stockley. I genuinely am very concerned for BPV if the Cardinals don’t calm fears.


Responding to Dweebe, I currently live on the East Coast, I can say for a fact that Newark has way stronger security. Heavily armed police are constantly visible and bag searches are everywhere. It works. Newark has a very grim vibe, but it feels safe with the heavy police presence.

More or less, my beef with St Louis is that something isn’t working. What sets this BPV incident apart, is that this wasn’t an unavoidable terrorist incident or mass shooting attack. This could and should have been stopped. I’ve seen extensive complaints on social media of St Louis Police ‘not doing anything’ in these instances. Valid or not, these are real perceptions St Louisans have and it’s horrible.
I don't disagree that the general perceptions and reactions - particularly one day after the incident - are likely extremely negative particularly from the particular segments of the metro population, and especially on social media (didn't even read the comments section on STLtoday but I can imagine it for sure). Its not a good thing in every possible way no matter what your perspective on downtown is heretofore and I recognize that. And of course, perception shapes everyone's reality to a significant degree.

I think everyone would agree that nobody needs to be carrying a gun at Ballpark Village and poor security allowed that to happen with disastrous results. Personally I don't see why anyone needs to carry guns except for hunting, sport shooting, etc but I'm not getting into that discussion, just my own personal opinion. Its also quite puzzling that the shooter got away from a place like that....and that warrants intense inquiry and criticism. Short of major structural changes to society I guess a big increase security in specific places is the answer for now but that really doesn't solve the issues that cause incidents like this to happen. I would guess that will occur at BPV but that's just a band aid topical solution to a much much larger problem in my view.
DogtownBnR wrote:Anyone know what “event” BPV/Bud Brewhouse was hosting tonight?
Just curious what event it was and if it would have warranted pat-downs or metal detectors. Was this a security oversight...
It was and Eat Drink Chill event hosted by BeFree STL. They had over 3600 rsvps. Violence tends to follow those types of large promoted events.

https://m.facebook.com/events/514179878 ... _tab=about


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Let's keep the posts related to the April 29 shooting in the Crime Thread so that we don't have two parallel conversations going.
It does seem like the reactions are very different in other cities.

If something happens in another city it is often generates a call to unity. Boston, Vegas, Orlando. Maybe its just because its a rejection of a counter philosophy like Islamic extremism or fascism as opposed to rote violence but these other places seem to come off these events with a stronger self identity.

But in St. Louis you get a lot of "that's why we all abandoned downtown/the city and you should too". We really do need to have more pride in our city.

I will say St. Louis needs to invest heavily in video surveillance technologies downtown. Things like this may happen, but there is absolutely no way the responsible person should get away with it. Hopefully they do have video footage and they just have to identify and find the thug who did it. If there isn't positive identification and capture of the offender within a few weeks then i would say the police are truly failing. Until then I would withhold judgement on their performance. It is extremely hard to prevent people from committing crimes but justice should be served especially in cases of extreme violence and ESPECIALLY on the regions very doorstep.
Some reason this feels awkward with me visiting the Arch & knowing how strict the security is to get in there i would have thought BPV would have been just as strict specially with the overall perception of downtown.. I do feel like this was a freak happening & could have happened anywhere.. This wouldn't keep me from patronizing downtown. My biggest concern is how much of an impact will this have on One Cardinal Way lease's.
I just think incidents like this are very rare
STLEnginerd wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:21 pm
It does seem like the reactions are very different in other cities.

If something happens in another city it is often generates a call to unity. Boston, Vegas, Orlando. Maybe its just because its a rejection of a counter philosophy like Islamic extremism or fascism as opposed to rote violence but these other places seem to come off these events with a stronger self identity.

But in St. Louis you get a lot of "that's why we all abandoned downtown/the city and you should too". We really do need to have more pride in our city.

I will say St. Louis needs to invest heavily in video surveillance technologies downtown. Things like this may happen, but there is absolutely no way the responsible person should get away with it. Hopefully they do have video footage and they just have to identify and find the thug who did it. If there isn't positive identification and capture of the offender within a few weeks then i would say the police are truly failing. Until then I would withhold judgement on their performance. It is extremely hard to prevent people from committing crimes but justice should be served especially in cases of extreme violence and ESPECIALLY on the regions very doorstep.
They already have.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 581c8.html
http://www.slmpd.org/RealTimeCrimeCenter.shtml

What level of surveillance are you looking for?
What level of surveillance are you looking for?
Enough to ensure a random act of violence in a public area such as this will result in the capture and conviction of the offending party. As I said I will reserve judgement. There is not much you can do to prevent these occurrences with law enforcement in the short term, but justice should not be an open question. If they don't identify and charge the killer in the next few weeks then you could question the effectiveness of the current infrastructure. I think they should continue to invest though to stay current and expand the bubble.

I hope they already have a name attached to this suspect and are knocking on doors.

In the long term there are a litany of nearly impossible to implement (because of politics) public policy and investment strategies to address these types of acts. Though even that diverges when you consider the ways to address poverty induced gang violence, nutjob mass shooters and religious fundamentalist extremism aren't exactly the same solution for each. Truthfully we don't even know whether this incident falls into one of those categories.
As of yesterday morning it appeared as though a base for a tower crane on the hotel portion of the project was being put into place. I will see if there is anymore movement later today.
newstl2020 wrote:As of yesterday morning it appeared as though a base for a tower crane on the hotel portion of the project was being put into place. I will see if there is anymore movement later today.
If it was black, it is on the Apartment Tower side now.
Older rendering but it is the only one I could find that shows the view looking West. This is what the people on the Riverfront or Poplar Street Bridge will see. Nothing exciting. The only thing different here is that the base is a dark gray color now.

Image
^It's missing the roof structure.
Nothing like a sweep of the Cubs, a first place standing, and some nice weather to keep the place hopping.
Looks like they're clearing out that last unoccupied area next to The Fudgery. I remember seeing rumors of Shake Shack or Wahlburger going in there. Does anyone have any information as to what they might be putting in there?
Couldn't find a definitive answer, but an article from 10/22/17 in stltoday stated Wahlburgers was in negotiations to put a restaurant in BPV.

"Wahlburgers, the burger chain owned by actor Mark Wahlberg and his family, is in negotiations to fill space in the existing Ballpark Village structure that opened in 2014, according to bond documents."
DeeMoss wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 2:32 pm
Looks like they're clearing out that last unoccupied area next to The Fudgery. I remember seeing rumors of Shake Shack or Wahlburger going in there. Does anyone have any information as to what they might be putting in there?
Pretty sure it was a Wahlburger that was expected to join BPV
A Kevlar Vest outlet store is going in.
whitherSTL wrote:A Kevlar Vest outlet store is going in.
Good one. :roll:
Check out this long exposure photo of BPV

Image

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Vintage ... 437303705/
chriss752 wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:47 pm
pattimagee wrote:Wow - that's incredible. I would assume 91 out of the 297 total right?
Yes. Francine at the Leasing Office today told me that 91 are leased (which is equal to 36% of the total building). I asked her about a second residential tower and she answered, “we are going to wait and see how 300 South Broadway goes in terms of leasing but I expect it to go fast because of how the rental rates differ between the two”.
Not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but I read today that 2 Light (in KC) has 55% of its units leased (they just opened). Certainly not a bad start for them but it seems promising that One Cardinal Way is already at 36% given the similarities between the two districts. I would expect that some of the Cardinal players will lease here as well once it opens, though I wouldn't think any would pre-lease since you can be traded in an instant.
^ I think we will be seeing a 2nd tower announcement before One Cardinal Way is even finished.
Any thoughts on how the new opportunity zone designation will impact BPV and/or other Downtown projects? Will likely make RX a more attractive investment.