CityArchRiver

The design competition and remake of the Jefferson National Expansion Memorial, AKA the Arch grounds.
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One thing that differentiates St. Louis from other major cities built on great rivers is that there's absolutely nothing on the other side of the river. I'm sure someone can tell me about a city somewhere with absolutely nothing on the other side of the river but I think you get the point. It's pretty drastic here.

Slightly off topic but I'd contend that City Garden has been the most important and successful development in downtown in decades. I am a fan of the Arch improvements though. Still work to do.
leeharveyawesome wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:51 pm
One thing that differentiates St. Louis from other major cities built on great rivers is that there's absolutely nothing on the other side of the river. I'm sure someone can tell me about a city somewhere with absolutely nothing on the other side of the river but I think you get the point. It's pretty drastic here.
Only because I appriciate the challenge. In varying degrees of nothing, Philadelphia, Louisville, Memphis. The thing that stands out the most on this list to me is that the rivers also act as state borders. I would actually probably rather have nothing over the argill plant and aging casino/hotel.

Also the barge based Biergarten, weingarten and food court is an excellent idea.
Jeffersonville, IN directly across the river from Louisville is a pretty dense and a pretty cool town and ripe for more development.

Memphis is basically a garbage dump on both sides.

Philly is different. It does have Camden though. But Philly needs Camden like New York City needs Newark.
For our anniversary last year, my wife and I took a Viking cruise from Amsterdam to Basil in the fall. Too bad Viking had dropped plans to expand to the US due to the law requiring that the boats be built in the US. Viking says that makes them too expensive. On the Rhine, Viking had boats leaving every day going both ways, so every stop had 1 or 2 boats every night from April through October. Europeans love Route 66 stuff for some reason, so St Louis would be a stop as attractive as some of the stops in Europe. (We need a Route 66 Museum in Choteau’s Landing where Route 66 used the McArthur Bridge.) Somehow, we need to turn St Louis into a daily stop for European packed river boats visiting the greatest river in the US.



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leeharveyawesome wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:22 pm
Jeffersonville, IN directly across the river from Louisville is a pretty dense and a pretty cool town and ripe for more development.

Memphis is basically a garbage dump on both sides.

Philly is different. It does have Camden though. But Philly needs Camden like New York City needs Newark.
I retract my addition of Louisville. The few times i have crossed over the river there i did so on 64 which is pretty far from the core and depending on your perspective seems a bit sparsely populated.

I like Memphis. It’s rough in places but it’s a pretty cool town.

Philly is different but ALL cities are different. We are unfortunately in the not entirely unique situation of having crucibles of poverty in 3 cardinal directions within a mile of our CBD. Saint Louis would be better off if this were not so but we are not prisoners to it.

To my mind the best candidate to focus on would be gentrifying Peabody Darst Webb and South Broadway. It’s a huge area but it’s is comparably more manageable than either ESTL or the north side.
Nice write-up in the Chicago Tribune:

www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/trave ... story.html

Image
Am I the only one disappointed that there don't seem to be any concerts or public music events on the Arch grounds, or riverfront, so far? I was thinking there might be weekly music at the bottom of the Arch steps. Wasn't that the whole point of raising it a few feet above the high risk flooding level? And there have been none at the other natural amphitheaters at the North Gateway or behind the new museum entrance. I understand there will be four Blues concerts that start in August at the North Gateway.

The map of the VP Fair shows just one stage that appears to be right under the Arch facing West. I might have moved it further West to take advantage of the now steeper grass slope behind the new entrance as a natural amphitheater. Or put the stage right on the river and use the steps as the seating. Or do both. In the old days, the VP Fair had multiple stages including one on the riverfront. Sounds like they are still terrified of flooding in spite of the expensive improvements there.

And I guess Live on the Levee is dead. They changed it to Celebrate St. Louis, but I assumed it would resume when the Arch was done. I remember OAR was there at Soldiers Memorial in 2008 when the levee flooded. No more Live on the Levee concerts? Will the levee ever be used for concerts again? When I type in Live on the Levee, I get concerts in Charleston and New Orleans. I guess all the weekly live outdoor free concerts are in Kirkwood, Webster Groves, and Chesterfield now.
^^^

Yeah, what happened to Live on the Levee? Those concerts were so great! I reached out to Fair St. Louis (a website directed me to them) and Kevin C. Johnson with the Post (he's written on the concert series in the past) to see if he knew.
Also, Eats Bridge was a cool event that happened what, once?
debaliviere wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:57 pm
Also, Eats Bridge was a cool event that happened what, once?
I hope we see alot of events move down to LKS and the North amphitheater thing. That will help the Landing out tremendously as well. The only time I've been to the landing in 4 years was after the Heritage Beer festival down on LKS 2 years back i believe.
Yes, events along the river are "cool" but that's about it. They're otherwise highly impractical. The cool factor does not outweigh the distance from parking, the lack of foot traffic, difficulty of egress, NPS restrictions (on the stairs), and the lack of shade.
The Muny parking lot, Central Fields, Tower Grove Park, Soldiers Memorial, and Kiener Plaza are going to narrowly beat out the riverfront every time. I'm glad they raised LKS but I don't think they specifically did it for events.
This goes along with other obsessions with the riverfront. People ask why we don't have more riverfront park space while we have one of the best city parks in the country (some say the world) lying 4.5 miles west of it. I want the riverfront buildings north and south of the Arch renovated more than anyone but I'd much rather see seamless commercial and residential activity from Downtown to Midtown first.
Noticed the St. Louis Brewers Heritage Festival isnt coming back to the Riverfront this year, its back at Forest Park in 2018. I don't actually mind it because at the riverfront it was mile long space of vendor booth. At forest park its a semi circle set up, which isnt possible at the riverfront boulevard.
aprice wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:20 pm
Yes, events along the river are "cool" but that's about it. They're otherwise highly impractical. The cool factor does not outweigh the distance from parking, the lack of foot traffic, difficulty of egress, NPS restrictions (on the stairs), and the lack of shade.
The Muny parking lot, Central Fields, Tower Grove Park, Soldiers Memorial, and Kiener Plaza are going to narrowly beat out the riverfront every time. I'm glad they raised LKS but I don't think they specifically did it for events.
They didn't raise it solely for events, but it was rebuilt with events in mind; heck, even the grand re-opening was an event where they blocked off the road and installed a giant dinner table. And the distance from parking was intentional, right? We want folks to park in downtown or in Laclede's Landing and filter their way down there. That said, the riverfront garage is literally one block away from the north end of LKS in front of the Arch; if you really want to park close it's hard to get more convenient than that.

I think the long strip makes it less convenient for certain events, but the format can work well for, say a row of vendors hawking wares. It's not any less convenient than walking through something like this.

aprice wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:20 pm
This goes along with other obsessions with the riverfront. People ask why we don't have more riverfront park space while we have one of the best city parks in the country (some say the world) lying 4.5 miles west of it. I want the riverfront buildings north and south of the Arch renovated more than anyone but I'd much rather see seamless commercial and residential activity from Downtown to Midtown first.
I get it, but you have a fairly unique resource in the Mississippi River, and I do feel it's appropriate to focus on it. I mean, it's the reason the city exists in the first place. You can argue (and I have my own issues with) how much was spent for the return, but if the goal is undoing what was started eighty years ago I'm not sure I agree that's feasible. So at this point, since you have a park that's not going anywhere, you make the best of what you've got. And given it's propensity for flooding a solution like this on LKS makes sense. I'd rather have seen Washington Ave remain to make it easier to get to, but a restored Lucas Avenue - assuming it doesn't get derailed by anything - is fairly decent consolation.

-RBB
rbb wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:05 am
I get it, but you have a fairly unique resource in the Mississippi River, and I do feel it's appropriate to focus on it.
I don't disagree at all. But we're not creating events solely to celebrate the riverfront. When a committee sits down with a list of possible locations for events, the riverfront just doesn't fit their needs. Taste Of Downtown is this weekend. It's adjacent to one hotel, a block away from 2 more, 3 blocks from a 7:05 Cardinals game, adjacent to two giant parking garages, and in the path of most people headed to the Arch anyway. Most Cardinals game attendees aren't going to know about Taste of Downtown and half who are definitely wouldn't walk all the way to the river before the game.

I love walking to the river, it's my default destination when I go on a walk to clear my head. But if you want to see events on LKS, you've got to get more creative. You have to ask yourself, would the event be better somewhere else? As for the Picnic table, if think the answer is no. But it's not every year we're having a grand reopening of our riverfront drive.
Since the grounds reopened I'm surprised with how packed LKS is with people (at least when the weather is decent).I do think closing the street for events would be detrimental. I would like to see more programming on the grounds near Eads bridge. Perhaps once construction is done in July that will happen.
I do hate how Kiener Plaza is now often taken over by private functions blocking access. I think we need to go back to the idea of having a festival location built near Soldiers Memorial.
I had the opportunity to tour the new entryway and museum last week. Even though many of us have questions about the cost-benefit analysis of this project, I can say that it really is a night-and-day improvement to the visitor experience to come over the land bridge and into the new entrance. Additionally, the museum is way better now and focuses on the actual 90 acres the Arch sits on rather than the old cowboys-and-Indians theme. I liked that it didn't gloss over what was lost when the monument was created. In whole, the museum and entryway just felt much more "major league" than the old one, like something you would find in DC or New York (albeit on a smaller scale).
The goal is to get people to appreciate the project (The Lid, and museum) rather than reconnect downtown to its biggest asset. The designers put less emphasis on any other entrance. Any other way in seems like a secret way in, rather than an alternative way in. Becomes less about serving downtown and more about the wow-factor of certain project details.

I don't think the designers did a superb job of understanding the city. There's a difference between transforming the site and transforming downtown. IMO, the project should've been designed by someone local who understands downtown and what it needed.

The lid, museum, and riverfront are awesome. Disappointed with connectivity and infrastructure components