CityArchRiver

The design competition and remake of the Jefferson National Expansion Memorial, AKA the Arch grounds.
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Sure hasn't stopped all the Youtubers.

I think the FAA needs to realize that it has few resources to actually enforce drone regulations at this point. The whole registration thing was just a facade to act like they had control, but it's only useful if an incident happens and the drone crashes it would seem.
I went on the Arch grounds free tour yesterday evening with about 40 others. Tom Nagel, Communications Manager for Gateway Arch Park Foundation, does a great job hosting these tours. He explains what was here before, and how the whole thing came to be -- including funding sources. I knew a lot of this already, but most in the group did not.

I liked that he explained the rationale the architects and landscape team (MVVA) used for design decisions they made. Tom also has a lot of info on what may be coming in the future. When I asked about the Kiener Plaza garages, Tom said they are interested in using graphics to improve the walls facing the plaza. He also mentioned they were looking into raising the profiles of the restaurants so they wouldn't look like they were nearly in the basement.

Other info from Tom and Matt Brinkman - Events and Progamming Manager -- 1) Pool in front will be flat water for kids & adults splashing etc. Not a fountain. 2) NP Service not big on ever installing LED programmable lighting illuminating the Arch with multiple colors -- like Eiffel Tower lighting. Preserve and Protect. 3) Events are planned for Kiener, riverfront, North Gateway etc., but they are looking for folks with events that want to use the grounds for anything from festivals to wedding events. 4) River has not flooded Lenore K Sullivan yet this spring. Six food vendors locate there next month. 5) Tom noted that the relocated statue - The Captain's Return - is a popular photo spot with families. Their dog Seaman is much larger than it appears from afar, so kids like it. 6) Visitors may enter or exit at the new West entrance, but can only exit at the legs. 7) They installed new lighting high atop Metropolitan Life building shining down on Kiener Plaza at night to provide "moonlight" level lighting at all times. 8) New West entrance will have large air conditioned lobby with restrooms before you reach security lines -- which will use three metal detectors.

Here are a few photos I took last night while on the tour. I think if we had a contest for bad Arch photos, nobody would win. There are none.
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gary kreie wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:13 pm
I went on the Arch grounds free tour yesterday evening with about 40 others.
That definitely was not me making a fool of myself at the old Garage site and intentionally trying to look dumb in front of the tour.
gary kreie wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:13 pm
6) Visitors may enter or exit at the new West entrance, but can only exit at the legs.
I don't approve. People want to see/touch the arch first, see the Museum second. Especially kids. I get why they wanted to make the museum more important but most people will go to the base of the arch first, see the river, etc., then backtrack to the museum.
^ I think it is more of a security issue and controlling access/cost than anything else and not so much the park service wanting people wanting to see the museum first. Having three different entrance points becomes a logistics and cost issue. Heck, the whole point of going to the Arch for most people is riding the tram and being literally in the Arch
maybe i dont remember how the south end (one next to PSB) looked before this reno but i dont see much improvements on that side.

one thing that would have been nice on the grounds and outdoors is a City Garden style Kaldis with outdoor seating.
dredger wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:19 pm
^ I think it is more of a security issue and controlling access/cost than anything else and not so much the park service wanting people wanting to see the museum first. Having three different entrance points becomes a logistics and cost issue. Heck, the whole point of going to the Arch for most people is riding the tram and being literally in the Arch
This is definitely the issue. For anyone who visited the arch prior to this upgrade it is clear they had severe space restrictions for security checkpoints and no way to make them larger. I really think that is 50% of the justification for the whole project. LKS Dr. flooding was another 25% and the rest is just because we haven't had a silver bullet shootout downtown in a while.
dbInSouthCity wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:22 pm
maybe i dont remember how the south end (one next to PSB) looked before this reno but i dont see much improvements on that side.
This is probably a good thing considering that a coherent plan still needs to come together for Chouteau Landing and Greenway/trail/connections.
Great summary, thanks for sharing. I'm struggling with where this will be. Will it be west of the museum entrance?
gary kreie wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:13 pm
Other info from Tom and Matt Brinkman - Events and Progamming Manager -- 1) Pool in front will be flat water for kids & adults splashing etc. Not a fountain.
I would assume he's talking about the museum entrance - you can see it here:

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pattimagee wrote:I would assume he's talking about the museum entrance - you can see it here:

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Yep. New Museum entrance water pool.


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Some of the original proposals included extensive use of the land under the PSB to connect the area south of the grounds. Unfortunately much like the ideas for water taxis, gondolas and expansion to the East Riverfront this was cut due to funding and politics.
Yikes! Anybody seen this? "Doug Unplugged" at KMOV wants to tear down all the old riverfront buildings and plant grass. He seems to think that's what all the "cool" cities are doing.

http://www.kmov.com/clip/14289610/doug- ... rban-decay
^ Someone at KMOV wants to tear down the city and plant grass? Color me shocked. Color me further shocked that "cool" cities are doing the exact opposite of what he thinks they're doing.
I would like to think that all those dilapidated buildings near & along the river are very salvageable & someday will make for a great region wide destination.. Everything is easier said than done
framer wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:14 pm
Yikes! Anybody seen this? "Doug Unplugged" at KMOV wants to tear down all the old riverfront buildings and plant grass. He seems to think that's what all the "cool" cities are doing.

http://www.kmov.com/clip/14289610/doug- ... rban-decay
Holy crap, I thought you were joking. This is poisonous.
aprice wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:26 am
framer wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:14 pm
Yikes! Anybody seen this? "Doug Unplugged" at KMOV wants to tear down all the old riverfront buildings and plant grass. He seems to think that's what all the "cool" cities are doing.

http://www.kmov.com/clip/14289610/doug- ... rban-decay
Holy crap, I thought you were joking. This is poisonous.
Should have said, "But just a few feet away there is a terrible interstate that rips the city from the riverfront! Can't we tear that down and fill it with residents and shops!?"
Those kind of sports bros are the worst bros.

One thing I would be interested in knowing about GRG is how the Chouteau Greenway initiative relates to the Riverfront initiative. Hopefully they can get going with some interesting redevelopments on some of their key parcels.
I notice they took down the temporary fence that had encircled the new Museum entrance and put some temporary people barriers only in the very front of the circle. I believe the white trough between the permanent fence and the grass will be filled with flowers, grass, or ground cover per the green in the plan picture.

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Here's a timelapse of the construction from one of my favorite YouTube channels:

Is there a reason why there aren’t fountains in the “ponds” on the Arch Grounds? Seems to me that it’s a lost opportunity to add beauty and keep the water moving so that it doesn’t collect algae, trash, etc.
^Maybe for reflections of The Arch?

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stladvocate wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 12:37 pm
Is there a reason why there aren’t fountains in the “ponds” on the Arch Grounds? Seems to me that it’s a lost opportunity to add beauty and keep the water moving so that it doesn’t collect algae, trash, etc.
It would have been nice to see some proposals for how to introduce a more natural look to these ponds. I love the crazy modernist shape of them but you could play with the materiality. What they're doing in Forest Park, basically moving water from pond to pond, is doing amazing things for wildlife.
aprice wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:56 pm
What they're doing in Forest Park, basically moving water from pond to pond, is doing amazing things for wildlife.
Heck, even that trickling new waterfall in Clayton's Shaw Park has ducks taking up residence.
^I figured the fact that they tore down a monoculture and replaced it with a monoculture was a good hint that they weren't too concerned with little ecological niceties for wild critters. Can't see why the ponds should be any different. This whole thing has been a bit disappointing to me, top to bottom. Much potential, but many misses in the execution. It's nice to have a lid. Here's to hoping the lid holds up well enough to survive to the next significant redesign in forty or fifty years.
aprice wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:56 pm
stladvocate wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 12:37 pm
Is there a reason why there aren’t fountains in the “ponds” on the Arch Grounds? Seems to me that it’s a lost opportunity to add beauty and keep the water moving so that it doesn’t collect algae, trash, etc.
It would have been nice to see some proposals for how to introduce a more natural look to these ponds. I love the crazy modernist shape of them but you could play with the materiality. What they're doing in Forest Park, basically moving water from pond to pond, is doing amazing things for wildlife.
Like this? From original winning MVVA entry.
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