St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

All the ways we move people and things: trains, planes, automobiles, biking, walking, etc.
First unread post4772 posts
jshank83 wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:09 pm
ldai_phs wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:29 pm
Delta's service was summer only while British Airways is going to be year round?

The figures.

2017(767): 131 pax avg per flight ~58% full
2016(757): 115 pax avg. per flight ~68% full
2015(757): 122.2 pax avg per flight ~ 73% full
2014(757): 132.1 pax avg per flight ~ 78.6% full
2013(757): 131.2 pax avg per flight. ~ 78% full

Top take always for me.

1. Aer Lingus to Pitt isn't going to happen.
2. Pitt can't handle 3 carriers. I can see Condor potentially leaving once BA comes.
3. KC and STL are filling our Iceland flights to roughly the same levels that Pitt was filling its Paris flight(before Condor and WOW came in).
Do you by chance have links to numbers for MCI/STL Iceland numbers. I saw MCI is around 72% loads on Icelandair so far. I haven't seen any numbers for STL yet.
I do not have anything for STL.

On another note. Have you or any one else hear heard if BA is still going to happen in STL soon?
ldai_phs wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:46 pm

On another note. Have you or any one else hear heard if BA is still going to happen in STL soon?
All I saw was the August rumor. I haven't seen anything for tomorrow and I doubt they announce on a Friday so I guess we will see next week.
Found this interesting.

Airport people living in Columbia, MO fly out of:
48% STL
28% MCI
23% COU

For some reason I always thought MCI/STL were more 50/50 but I guess STL is probably closer, as well has more options.

https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news ... b83a6.html
jshank83 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:16 pm
Found this interesting.

Airport people living in Columbia, MO fly out of:
48% STL
28% MCI
23% COU

For some reason I always thought MCI/STL were more 50/50 but I guess STL is probably closer, as well has more options.

https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news ... b83a6.html
In the statewide association I'm part of, the people who are in Columbia/Jeff City always fly out of either Jeff City or STL. And they seem to prefer STL because they have an opportunity to get cheaper and more direct flights here.
Sounds about right. I had a few friends that preferred MCI back in TWA days for price reasons, but STL probably has a slight edge now in price, certainly in direct flights, and probably also in the family parking advantage. Not a big edge, but when you add them all together . . .

Nobody talks about MCI as the special secret anymore: the cheap, convenient alternative. COU doubtless wins on convenience. (Free parking. Easy drive. Smooth check in.) And it's increasingly well connected, if only to a few hubs, so it doesn't surprise me too much it's catching up. MCI will doubtless always be more convenient than STL for those with KC connections. (And STL vice versa.) The real fight is probably over those with no local or purely CoMO connections.
Anyone know why there was an all white A330 parked over on the boeing side of the field today?
So... looking more and more likely that the 'August rumor' was just that - a rumor. Oh well.
Trololzilla wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:43 am
So... looking more and more likely that the 'August rumor' was just that - a rumor. Oh well.
I still think something is coming but I agree it isn't looking like August. I would doubt they announce on a Friday and tomorrow is a Southwest extension day so I doubt it would be tomorrow either. Hopefully, we get something new from Southwest tomorrow. I think JAX has a good shot. They could push Frontier off of it pretty easily.


For those of you who read through my frequency spreadsheet I updated it for October.

Southwest is up 10 flights a day over last year.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
July numbers are out.

Passengers are up 4.5% for the month
Passengers are up 5.9% for the year
Cargo up 11.3% on the month

Another good month.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf
Southwest adds Punta Cana and Montego Bay. wow. 1x weekly. I thought maybe MBJ but not both.
Charleston is back early. 1x weekly for now.
West Palm Beach, Oakland and Panama City are also back. West Palm Beach still 1x weekly, thought that might go a few more. The other 2 daily.
jshank83 wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:08 am
Southwest adds Punta Cana and Montego Bay. wow. 1x weekly. I thought maybe MBJ but not both.
Charleston is back early. 1x weekly for now.
West Palm Beach, Oakland and Panama City are also back. West Palm Beach still 1x weekly, thought that might go a few more. The other 2 daily.
Very nice. Any idea if PUJ and MBJ are seasonal or year-round?
jshank83 wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:08 am
Southwest adds Punta Cana and Montego Bay. wow. 1x weekly. I thought maybe MBJ but not both.
Charleston is back early. 1x weekly for now.
West Palm Beach, Oakland and Panama City are also back. West Palm Beach still 1x weekly, thought that might go a few more. The other 2 daily.
Totals for March next year for WN (changes from last March)

118 m-f (+4)
101 Sat (+7)
120 Sun (+6)
811 Weekly (+33)

M-F changes (YoY)
+1 SMF, SJC, BDL, DCA, PHL
-1 MDW
Trololzilla wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:56 am
jshank83 wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:08 am
Southwest adds Punta Cana and Montego Bay. wow. 1x weekly. I thought maybe MBJ but not both.
Charleston is back early. 1x weekly for now.
West Palm Beach, Oakland and Panama City are also back. West Palm Beach still 1x weekly, thought that might go a few more. The other 2 daily.
Very nice. Any idea if PUJ and MBJ are seasonal or year-round?
Sounds like seasonal based on the southwest release putting it under seasonal and a quote from Southwest: the flights are "designed to operate during the peak travel period" only.
City released RFQ on August 31st for the previously mentioned Terminal 2 Baggage Carousel Expansion.

"The total estimated cost for this project is $23,000,000, which includes design, construction, and management.
... expansion of the baggage conveying facilities. The scope includes a new addition attached to the existing terminal building, site work, utility relocation, a new addition containing additional inbound baggage carousels, replacement of existing carousels, structural, HVAC equipment, and associated electrical, and associated controls, lighting, security access control, fire suppression, architectural finishes, interior signage, and baggage information displays."


Responses are due September 27th
addxb2 wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:01 am
City released RFQ on August 31st for the previously mentioned Terminal 2 Baggage Carousel Expansion.

"The total estimated cost for this project is $23,000,000, which includes design, construction, and management.
... expansion of the baggage conveying facilities. The scope includes a new addition attached to the existing terminal building, site work, utility relocation, a new addition containing additional inbound baggage carousels, replacement of existing carousels, structural, HVAC equipment, and associated electrical, and associated controls, lighting, security access control, fire suppression, architectural finishes, interior signage, and baggage information displays."


Responses are due September 27th
I like the September 27th date. Get it moving along. Long overdue. Since they are adding an addition (I am expecting to the west of current building), hopefully they will add to the 2nd level as well. It would be nice to have some place to grab a beer on the landside, but maybe that is wishful thinking.
Found some cool historical stuff about the airport.

Here's a picture of T1 as it originally appeared (before the fourth gable was added). Thought it was cool as I hadn't seen a picture of it that way before.

This article details the construction of the D concourse and the simultaneous construction of the C extension and the cargo facility. Fascinating read. One thing I had no clue that had existed was plans for a people-mover that ran on the roof of D (in fact, they went so far as to prep the structure for it and installed the rails). Did it ever actually run or was it immediately superseded by MetroLink plans? Or did it just never run for other reasons?

Also saw what I believe was a Cape Air plane coming in to land on Runway 29 earlier today while I was dropping someone off at the airport. Was pretty cool to see considering how rare arrivals are on that side of the runway and the fact the plane flew right over our car on I-70. (Here's an inside view of that arrival on Air Choice One if anyone's curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yKDS-wOzhk)
Nice, thanks for sharing Trololzilla. Love this pic:

Image
August numbers out: https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf

Passengers for the month up 6.8% over last year. Passengers for the year up an even 6% at 10,408,575. If that growth remains steady the airport could well finish over 15.6 million, the best year on record since 2003 and the first time over 15 million since 2007.

Total operations are still down, now by 1.3% on the year (slightly better than July's 1.4%), likely due to the EAS cuts and other routine equipment upgrades.

Cargo also up 4.7% for the month and 3.5% on the year.

Now up to 36 straight months of growth, so overall, looking pretty good for the airport.
2007 was the last year since the Great Recession, so do you think this is actual growth or just that we are nearing the peak of the business cycle?

In other news, a new low cost carrier is looking to fly TATL Cincinnati-Basel
https://www.ft.com/content/69e61094-b27 ... cf89602132
I believe (and hope) that there's still another 5-10 years before the next major economic downturn, and some economics gurus believe that's the case as well. In any case, I think at least some of the growth is actual - mainly Southwest's growing connecting numbers through STL, particularly as MDW and DAL get more and more crowded. Probably some on the business and TATL ends as well.

Heck, if passenger numbers keep growing like they have been there's a very real chance STL can pass DAL for the rank of busiest medium hub in the next year or two.

As for that Swiss LCC: I honestly don't get their business model. Sure, there might be a decent number of pharmaceutical employees in Basel and Cinci, but daily PDEW between the two has got to be, what, 10 at best? Not to mention that CVG already has a TATL flight - and a rather empty one, at that. I'm really not seeing the logic behind it.
I'd say they're doing well given the number of planes that fly over my house early in the morning.
All figures are an average of both ways. You can look at the spreadsheet for full numbers

Alaska
San Diego -88%
SEA - 93.5%

American
LAX - 91%
All others in the 80s

Delta
Cincy - 67%
Salt Lake - 90%
All others in the 80s

Frontier
All in the 90s

Southwest
BOS - 79%
HOU - 79%
New Orleans - 76%

In the 90s
Cleveland
Columbus
DEN
Des Moines
Milwaukee
LGA
Newark
Oakland
Omaha
Orlando
PIT
Portland
Raleigh
Sacramento (98% inbound)
SFO
San Jose
SEA
Wichita
All others in the 80s

United
DEN - 93%
Newark - 92%
Washington DC - 91%
All others in the 80s


Full numbers (I'll add in Allegiant at BLV later)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing[/quote]