St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

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First unread post4548 posts
jshank83 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:35 am
WOW is flying to India and St. Louis will be one of the US cities it will be offered from (With a stop in Iceland, obviously). Long flight but $199 each way promotion.

https://www.benzinga.com/pressreleases/ ... ia-iceland


They also extended their schedule looks like it runs 3x over winter to Iceland. It also looks like they are changing the departure time to 4:10 pm which puts in you Iceland at 4:30 am.

Outbound M/W/F
Inbound Sun/Tues/Thurs

They must be overnighting the plane here during winter so they can use the same crew both ways.
I am not seeing anything less than 450/500 one way.
ldai_phs wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:24 pm
jshank83 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:35 am
WOW is flying to India and St. Louis will be one of the US cities it will be offered from (With a stop in Iceland, obviously). Long flight but $199 each way promotion.

https://www.benzinga.com/pressreleases/ ... ia-iceland


They also extended their schedule looks like it runs 3x over winter to Iceland. It also looks like they are changing the departure time to 4:10 pm which puts in you Iceland at 4:30 am.

Outbound M/W/F
Inbound Sun/Tues/Thurs

They must be overnighting the plane here during winter so they can use the same crew both ways.
I am not seeing anything less than 450/500 one way.
I'm seeing $299 and $309 still. I am guessing the $199s sold out
WOW Air 167 KEF-STL has departed Keflavik per flightaware and will arrive in St Louis at 7:46 PM. Great day for Lambert.
jshank83 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 10:54 am
ldai_phs wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:24 pm
jshank83 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:35 am
WOW is flying to India and St. Louis will be one of the US cities it will be offered from (With a stop in Iceland, obviously). Long flight but $199 each way promotion.

https://www.benzinga.com/pressreleases/ ... ia-iceland


They also extended their schedule looks like it runs 3x over winter to Iceland. It also looks like they are changing the departure time to 4:10 pm which puts in you Iceland at 4:30 am.

Outbound M/W/F
Inbound Sun/Tues/Thurs

They must be overnighting the plane here during winter so they can use the same crew both ways.
I am not seeing anything less than 450/500 one way.
I'm seeing $299 and $309 still. I am guessing the $199s sold out
I think WOW software isn't good about updating all these new flights. I've been looking at STL -> TLV last few weeks. It allows for STL -> TLV at a very low $240 but TLV -> STL doesn't exist and if you hardwire it in it's for like $800+.
WOW has landed! Really awesome pictures on Lambert's twitter.
RuskiSTL wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 3:42 pm
I think WOW software isn't good about updating all these new flights. I've been looking at STL -> TLV last few weeks. It allows for STL -> TLV at a very low $240 but TLV -> STL doesn't exist and if you hardwire it in it's for like $800+.
I was poking around on their site and saw that TLV was an option and got pretty excited. I make the trip once or twice a year and will look forward to being able to split it into two 6/7 hour legs instead of one 2 hour and one 11 hour like I have in past trips.
dabeags wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 8:47 am
RuskiSTL wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 3:42 pm
I think WOW software isn't good about updating all these new flights. I've been looking at STL -> TLV last few weeks. It allows for STL -> TLV at a very low $240 but TLV -> STL doesn't exist and if you hardwire it in it's for like $800+.
I was poking around on their site and saw that TLV was an option and got pretty excited. I make the trip once or twice a year and will look forward to being able to split it into two 6/7 hour legs instead of one 2 hour and one 11 hour like I have in past trips.
To each their own but I also make the pilgrimage 2-3x/year and IMO a longer flight is better, especially something like the late LY services or UA 90 (77W/Polaris). Probably the best bet from STL is AC (single cabin Jazz) or UA (try to get a YX E-175) via EWR.

I certainly wouldn’t relish flying WW to TLV particularly with an elongated layover.
^Coming back I would want it split up equal but going I would want a short then long to try to get better sleep overnight.
jshank83 wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 5:20 pm
^Coming back I would want it split up equal but going I would want a short then long to try to get better sleep overnight.
Perhaps, but again I think most people who travel with any frequency would prefer spend a greater portion of their elapsed travel time on a wide body with international seating configuration (flat beds in forward cabin) and long-haul inflight service versus a domestic narrowbody (or in the case of STL a RJ-perhaps even single cabin). Everything is relative I get it, but to me a six hour flight isn’t very long. STL-KEF clocks in under BOS-LAX most days particularly in the winter.

I guess my point in mentioning this is that WW will take the most marginal, discretionary travelers to TLV (and other points throughout their network). In other words people who otherwise wouldn’t be flying internationally. Very few people would be willing to electively endure two ~7 hour A321 flights and an elongated layover on a LCC with tight pitch versus DL/UA/LY/AC/bevy of European “full-service” operators on widebodies in this market.

AirTran (FL) back in the day specifically operated a rolling hub in Atlanta optimized to maximize utilization and would regaularly sell itineraries with long layovers to appeal to people who placed a low value on their time. It worked when FL was the low cost producer (circa 2007-09) but with WN payscale, structural costs, workrules, they needed to pivot to more lucrative point to point service in ATL (and got rid of the smaller 717s and lower volume markets like CAK, HPN, SRQ that could provide enough scale for the WN model)
Sorry on the confusion, I wasn't talking WOW specifically with my comment. I just meant stage lengths in general. Plane type and airline factors into that also. If I'm doing an overnight I want a long leg. If I'm doing a day flight that I don't plan on sleeping, then a stop in the middle to stretch out I be good with. Other options factor in though (plane type/seating config/airline, etc). Some routes won't have a stop in the middle option though.
^^Yes exactly, I fly to Europe about once a month and in the absence of a direct flight I much rather prefer to connect in ORD/EWR/IAD than KEF.
JAL007 wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 9:01 pm

To each their own but I also make the pilgrimage 2-3x/year and IMO a longer flight is better, especially something like the late LY services or UA 90 (77W/Polaris). Probably the best bet from STL is AC (single cabin Jazz) or UA (try to get a YX E-175) via EWR.

I certainly wouldn’t relish flying WW to TLV particularly with an elongated layover.
I prefer the AC 787 via YYZ which I have done for my last two trips. I'm sure the UA flight is awesome in Polaris, but my company will only pay for economy so I'm stuck in the back with the peasants. Since I'm in economy regardless, then I'm fine with WOW. I wouldn't do a long layover on the way there though, so that would be a no go. I would do a 36-48 hour stopover on the way home though, I generally do that somewhere in Europe right now as is.

Unfortunate for my international travels that we are a WN hub, because I fly enough to be top tier status on any of the legacy carriers.
I try not to make a habit out of junking this thread up with my pictures, but . . . I'll make a small exception for the Wow flight.

Image

Image

Keflavik has landed. (Okay, I'm a few days late. But I'm doing my best.)
April numbers are out.

Up 5.5% for the month. 4.6% for the year.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf

Also, Southwest currently has 80 employees in town from their revenue management and network planning team, touring the area. They are visiting each of their Top 10 cities.

Hopefully, some good route news comes out of it.
jshank83 wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:26 am
April numbers are out.

Up 5.5% for the month. 4.6% for the year.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf

Also, Southwest currently has 80 employees in town from their revenue management and network planning team, touring the area. They are visiting each of their Top 10 cities.

Hopefully, some good route news comes out of it.
Have we finally cracked their top 10? May I ask by what measure?
symphonicpoet wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 2:00 pm
jshank83 wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:26 am
April numbers are out.

Up 5.5% for the month. 4.6% for the year.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf

Also, Southwest currently has 80 employees in town from their revenue management and network planning team, touring the area. They are visiting each of their Top 10 cities.

Hopefully, some good route news comes out of it.
Have we finally cracked their top 10? May I ask by what measure?
Not sure. That's just what the airport log said. Maybe they are top 10 in flights over the entire year but I would think we are more like 12th. We are 13th most by peak departures but I'm guessing we are actually ahead of Tampa for total.
Where have I heard this before?

The Trouble With the Memphis Airport: No Crowds
The spacious terminal built for when the Tennessee city was a bustling air travel hub has become a half-deserted white elephant that the airport is spending millions to shrink.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/23/us/m ... rport.html
There are about three times as many passengers at Lambert as at Memphis. The aircraft operations are similar (with Memphis slightly ahead, thanks to cargo) Lambert presently has just shy of sixty accessible gates. (Not counting those in closed off areas or behind coffee shops.) Memphis has nearly seventy accessible, apparently. Same number of concourses open. Slightly more gates. A quarter of the passenger traffic. I don't really think we're in the same league of ghost town as their terminal. We were, maybe, but not now. And anyone who thinks Lambert isn't crowded has never been around T2 during rush hour. Curbside there is nuts. (The pickup line backs up halfway to T1. I kid you not.) Frankly, even T1 gets busy during peak hours. The ticketing hall usually doesn't feel crowded, but at five of an afternoon they can have all six belts going at once with multiple flights on some of them. It's not the madness that is T2, but . . . less than half the size and more than twice the traffic will do that.
I travel quite frequently out of Lambert, mostly departing at around 11am-1pm, so security is always a breeze. Had to catch a 6am flight today and the security line for the United/Delta/Air Canada gates was absolutely insane, spent almost 25 min on the line (can't get TSA precheck due to citizenship status).
jshank83 wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 3:40 pm
symphonicpoet wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 2:00 pm
jshank83 wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:26 am
April numbers are out.

Up 5.5% for the month. 4.6% for the year.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf

Also, Southwest currently has 80 employees in town from their revenue management and network planning team, touring the area. They are visiting each of their Top 10 cities.

Hopefully, some good route news comes out of it.
Have we finally cracked their top 10? May I ask by what measure?
Not sure. That's just what the airport log said. Maybe they are top 10 in flights over the entire year but I would think we are more like 12th. We are 13th most by peak departures but I'm guessing we are actually ahead of Tampa for total.
Hopefully some good news will come out of it. Also them being here they can get a feel for how their operations are here and see the increasing congestion issues in T2, especially now with WOW started adding to evening crowds. Also they could be here considering a pilot base since here is one of the largest stations they have that isn't one. Question is how many more flights could be added before needing to open more gates and if they open more gates would they add a T1 check in and access?
Traveled this week on Southwest for the first time in a few years. I can definitely tell the difference in traffic - not just connecting. When I departed on my 10 am flight Tuesday, the parking shuttle driver had to drop me off at the lower level / passenger pick up but the departing roadway was bogged down and would have taken more time. I walked around the entire E concourse. Most of the gates (including E10, my departure) were full of travelers, and I could not get a seat for my departing plane. I had to stand. Security was somewhat of a long line, but it moved relatively fast. I feel like E Gates after the bend are spaced pretty far apart. I am not sure if airport operations contributes to this, but it feels like they could add more and better use space. I realize we don't need them necessarily.

On the return flight, it was quite the opposite. Thursday at 3:30 the arrival traffic was terrible. I saw lines around the corner of incoming traffic waiting.

It was great to see this much activity, but I understand more some of the conversations about capacity at T2 being concerning.
From an earlier post it looks like the re-opening of the D corridor back to T1 was discussed by the board and didn't have support. I really do wish they would re-open it...
STLCityMike wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:25 pm
I feel like E Gates after the bend are spaced pretty far apart. I am not sure if airport operations contributes to this, but it feels like they could add more and better use space. I realize we don't need them necessarily.
I suspect the space you're seeing is the result of an old hold area that's . . . maybe being repurposed as something else?

There are a few of us that have been a bit curious about/ mystified by that space for some time. When I was in there last fall it was walled off, but I don't believe there was any active construction going on. (They were, at the time, working on the new lounge and the Starbucks near E29.) Ironically, looking at old ARCGIS iamgery I increasingly think the missing gates in your gap were historically Southwest gates. If you go to St. Louis County's GIS website and look at the 1995-97 aerials of that spot you can see what appear to be a pair of WN 737s parked at jetbridges there. There's plenty of space you could put gates back if you wished to. They'd be configured a bit oddly. But they should fit fine. Alternately, you could use that as concession space, though that's far enough down the concourse I suspect it's still a little quiet. Those gates have been out of service twenty years, I'd guess. Probably since the current T2 opened. In any case, that's why things seem so spaced out: there were two more gates in the hole at one time. At least two.