Metro Safety

All the ways we move people and things: trains, planes, automobiles, biking, walking, etc.
First unread post290 posts
gary kreie wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:08 am
In Amsterdam, the trams have no turnstiles, but they have a sensor that beeps when you touch your ticket card to it just inside the tram door. And a tram official, who rides on the tram, watches. Or you can buy a ticket from him. I'm not sure but I think that official can stop the tram from continuing if he sees someone get on without flashing a valid ticket on the sensor, or buying a ticket from him. But once, we saw a guy get on who was a couple of coins short. The tram official reached into some kind of kitty took out a couple of coins and put them in for him. He was very appreciative.

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I'm sure it has been mentioned on here before, but Copenhagen doesn't have turnstiles either. A driverless 24 hour system that is (perhaps a bit hyperbolic) stunningly clean. Fast and quiet as well.
bwcrow1s wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:46 am
bprop wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:22 am
danke0 wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:23 pm


St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said a pilot program would allow authorities to test how a barrier system would operate and assess the costs and benefits and “see how it’s received” by the public."
I'd perceive it a lot better if the County and CIty PD did the job they were supposed to do first, when Metro didn't have these problems and there was an obvious security and regular police presence. They are being paid but not doing the job. Period. Barriers are a non-issues and nobody would be talking them unless the PD and Metro didn't drop the ball several years ago.

I'm failing to grasp why this is so difficult for our regional leaders.
Agreed.

Basically, it'll take years to implement something that could be changed in a matter of months. Why not just take all of the "study" funds and apply them towards new officers who can actually police the Metrolink lines? Why must everything be difficult?
I agree with your sentiment 100%. But there isn't a need for additional funds. Metro is paying for the officers and County PD is simply not staffing the system. This is on top of County voters inexplicably voting for a huge tax increase to fund additional officer salaries.
From my recent travels
Portland and Seattle don't have turnstiles
Vancouver had them. Don't know if all stations have them
LA some stations have them, some didn't
Metro really should be suing the St. Louis County Police department for breach of contract to recover all the embezzled taxpayer funds. County PD should be flush with cash after that proposition just passed.
I'm curious to see what happens after the turnstiles are installed and have zero impact.
Then the haters will say "Well, we tried, and it just can't be fixed. Shut it down."
quincunx wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:12 pm
Then the haters will say "Well, we tried, and it just can't be fixed. Shut it down."
I agree, it seems like Stenger is really hyping up this "Metro is a dangerous crime machine" narrative to ramp up his base and so he doesn't have to make a decision on Metrolink expansion. The obvious choice is a large N/S regional line, but Stenger has wasted years.
More senseless violence. Wasn't there a plan to put some test turnstiles in place?

http://www.kmov.com/story/37708964/man- ... is-too-lax
MarkHaversham wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:24 pm
I'm curious to see what happens after the turnstiles are installed and have zero impact.
I'm curious as to what happens when the Missouri gas tax is on par with the rest of the country, the State actually funds transit on par with the rest of the country, and our region's leaders actually see the value in proper planning around MetroLink stations and high frequency bus routes... and suddenly our already few safety issues on MetroLink becomes even less of a problem.
danke0 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:45 pm
More senseless violence. Wasn't there a plan to put some test turnstiles in place?

http://www.kmov.com/story/37708964/man- ... is-too-lax
Heck, it's not even safe for Metro security officers to ask riders for proof of ticket:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 21b7d.html
aprice wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:28 pm
MarkHaversham wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:24 pm
I'm curious to see what happens after the turnstiles are installed and have zero impact.
I'm curious as to what happens when the Missouri gas tax is on par with the rest of the country, the State actually funds transit on par with the rest of the country, and our region's leaders actually see the value in proper planning around MetroLink stations and high frequency bus routes... and suddenly our already few safety issues on MetroLink becomes even less of a problem.
This really is the only answer. Only a critical mass of normal people on the trains and platforms will change the situation. Until then, turnstiles and security personnel are just nibbles around the edges of the problem. In this region it looks like only WU is willing to nudge people enough to make it happen. The blue line is full of WU people who have been nudged.
danke0 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:45 pm
More senseless violence. Wasn't there a plan to put some test turnstiles in place?

http://www.kmov.com/story/37708964/man- ... is-too-lax
Come on KMOV, "Like A Girl" in the headline? Wasn't there a whole campaign against this type of derogatory statement?
Mobility Lab - Transit is pretty safe. What can we do to erode misleading stereotypes?

https://mobilitylab.org/2018/04/05/tran ... ereotypes/
Metro hopes using an app will make riders feel safer about riding Metro buses and Metrolink.

http://fox2now.com/2018/04/09/metro-hop ... nd-trains/
Safetrek is ineffective. Not sure why people waste their money on it.


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downtown2007 wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:12 am
Safetrek is ineffective. Not sure why people waste their money on it.


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Per the article linked, the app is free, so it would seem like anyone who paid for it is totally wasting money. (Also, the article was written horribly, so I'd not be surprised for you to tell me it's not free)
Per this article, SafeTrek is normally subscription-based, but is 100% free-to-use on Metro. SafeTrek has made similar deals with Downtown STL Inc. and Washington University in St. Louis. The app was made by MU students and St. Louis based-Cultivation Capital led their last round of funding.

Here's SafeTrek on the Google Play Store. Per its description the app is free to install but requires a subscription after a trial period:
In order to cover the cost of our 24/7 call centers, SafeTrek charges a small monthly subscription of $2.99. To help make sure SafeTrek is right for you, all subscriptions have a 7 day free trial period. Your subscription will automatically renew unless you cancel your account at least 24 hours before the end of the current subscription month. Subscriptions may be managed by the user and auto-renewal may be turned off by going to the user's Account Settings after purchase.
And here's SafeTrek in the Apple App store.

-RBB
Drove past the Forest Park - Debaliviere station today around 3:30 and saw at least three cops keeping an eye on things. Hopefully the bad publicity was productive in getting the transit cops off their ass
I don't think that app will make riders feel safer, most riders wouldn't even bother downloading that nor would they want to pay a monthly subscription to use it. I sometimes feel uneasy at platforms waiting for a train, especially transferring at Forest Park station. The best thing to do is stand near where the rent-a-cop is on a platform and sit in the cab where the train operator is, which is what I do when I ride Metrolink.

I still think Metro needs to install turnstiles at stations and better enforce fare evasion. Most of the bad folks that are on platforms and trains evade paying the fare and abuse the honor system.
10-intuition wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:48 pm

I still think Metro needs to install turnstiles at stations and better enforce fare evasion. Most of the bad folks that are on platforms and trains evade paying the fare and abuse the honor system.
You don't know that. And if the cost of admission to cause trouble on the train is as low as a train fare (or a stolen/pilfered transfer), then a turnstile in and of itself it not going to cure anything.

Metro didn't have these issues five, ten, fifteen, or twenty years ago, and they didn't have turnstiles then, either.
^^ I'm not entirely convinced that even riding in the car where the operator is a deterrent. Blatant drug deals in full view of the operator are a relatively normal sight for me on my evening commute from the CWE station.

I wonder if the instillation of turnstiles would help provide an instance of security theater. When in DC a couple of weeks ago, I noticed that most of the metro stations have their turnstiles going past a guard booth (that is actually manned). While not really affecting people's behavior on the train necessarily, I think it possibly could still provide a sense of security for some people. As is currently with Metro, anyone and their mother can come and go on the platform whenever they please. In my anecdotal evidence, I have seen numerous occasions where people run past security officers checking fares at entrances, yelling that they need to catch a departing train and that they have a valid fare. Security makes no attempt to stop them besides the occasional shouting. These people, in a shocking twist, do not catch the departing train but rather stop midway down the platform and blend in with the crowd before boarding a later train. As a daily rider, and I think this sentiment would extend to the more occasional customer, this lack of control on the platform is frustrating but also a little unnerving. I think the semblance of having control of who enters and exits the platform and therefore who is on the train would make many people feel more secure. Maybe not.

The unfortunate layout of most of Metro's platforms makes adding turnstiles a monumentally expensive project. I am not holding my breath for their appearance anytime soon, but I do think the addition of turnstiles would be a benefit from a security point of view.
This guy punched and kicked a 66 year old man on the Grand platform until he was unconscious.

"Hightower has multiple misdemeanor convictions for violating rules on rapid transit in St. Louis County; court records show he pleaded guilty of those offenses and was fined a small amount or given credit for time served in jail. Online court records don't specify what the violations were."

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... the-latest
^
On the day of the attack, a guard was working the platform; however, the guard left for a dinner break shortly before it happened, according to KTVI.
un. f***ing. believable.

DEAR F***ING METRO/SLPD/SLCPD, THERE NEEDS TO BE AT LEAST ONE GUARD/OFFICER WATCHING THE PLATFORM AT ALL TIMES.

It really shouldn't be this f***ing difficult to get right.
The inclusion of the security guard being on dinner break in multiple stories about this incident is absurd.

The guards can't/won't do anything. The only thing the guard can do is to call the police. Not sure it really makes a difference if the cops arrive 10 minutes after the situation is over or 15 minutes after.

There are frequently city cops sitting in idling cars in the station parking lot a block or two from the Grand Station. I have no idea what that's accomplishing, and I'm not sure why that should even be allowed or considered anything other than dereliction of duty.

But there's nobody in charge of the city police, it seems. And getting people to do their jobs is just not possible.
Trying to find a way to provide coverage while guards are on break:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... op-story-2