Could NBA return to STL after nearly 50 years?

Got love for St. Louis sports? Let's talk Pro, College, High School, or otherwise.
Yeah, that’s just click bait. Zero chance that some of those teams would move with the brand new arenas that were just built.
Jarrett Sutton @JarrettTSutton
NBA Executive: “Jarrett, going to be real honest with you, Kansas City will get an NBA team at some point. It’s a real thing I’ve heard from multiple sources. Just a matter of time. Seattle and KC to me are most valuable markets for league expansion when it makes sense.”

https://twitter.com/JarrettTSutton/stat ... 3073234944
chaifetz10 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:33 am
Yeah, that’s just click bait. Zero chance that some of those teams would move with the brand new arenas that were just built.
You are correct in that some of those are near ludicrous. But since they didn't list St. Louis as a destination it means we're not even on the radar.
dredger wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 5:27 pm
The other point not related to St Louis that stuck out. More and more in pro sports you see either London or Mexico City be named as an expansion or relocation city as in this article. I think it is only a matter of time whether it be football, baseball, basketball, or hockey that pro sports give one or both of those cities a shot. Both have big markets, both have fan bases for American sports, both would be destination cities for American sport fans and both are just big huge media markets.
Barring a major change in international travel technology, you won't see an NBA, NHL, or probably even MLB team in Europe until they're ready to have an entire division or even conference over there. The tight schedules and travel restrictions just can't allow it. It's not really very smooth for the NFL to do it, but because of the weekly schedule and the money to be made, they make it work.

With that said, Mexico City doesn't seem unreasonable.
How about hosting some pre season NBA games? I think theres a lot more basketball fans than most people would guess & sounds like the people/experts that don't think St.Louis is a honorable city for the NBA don't like St.Louis.. I'm not sure what makes the other cities more desirable or extinguishable from here.. Theres history of success with the NBA here.. With each city its all about deep pockets no matter how many fortunate 500 companies there are or lack of but i personally think the NBA would do well here especially with some prime notable names that are currently in the NBA that are from here.
St.Louis is a sleeper in my opinion.. We can definitely handle 3 teams specially if other places like Cleveland Pittsburgh Tampa all have 3 teams..
People may bleed Blue & Red here however i think people would bleed whatever NBA team were to be here particularly an expansion team that way it instantly feels like it belongs to St.Louis.
St.Louis1764 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:51 pm
How about hosting some pre season NBA games? I think theres a lot more basketball fans than most people would guess & sounds like the people/experts that don't think St.Louis is a honorable city for the NBA don't like St.Louis.. I'm not sure what makes the other cities more desirable or extinguishable from here.. Theres history of success with the NBA here.. With each city its all about deep pockets no matter how many fortunate 500 companies there are or lack of but i personally think the NBA would do well here especially with some prime notable names that are currently in the NBA that are from here.
St.Louis is a sleeper in my opinion.. We can definitely handle 3 teams specially if other places like Cleveland Pittsburgh Tampa all have 3 teams..
People may bleed Blue & Red here however i think people would bleed whatever NBA team were to be here particularly an expansion team that way it instantly feels like it belongs to St.Louis.
Like I've said before with the 2017 MLB season attendance:
Cardinals: 3.5 million
Cleveland: 2.0 million
Pittsburgh: 1.9 million
Tampa: 1.2 million
We pretty much have 3 teams worth of season attendance since the Cardinals count twice.
dweebe wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:13 pm
St.Louis1764 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:51 pm
How about hosting some pre season NBA games? I think theres a lot more basketball fans than most people would guess & sounds like the people/experts that don't think St.Louis is a honorable city for the NBA don't like St.Louis.. I'm not sure what makes the other cities more desirable or extinguishable from here.. Theres history of success with the NBA here.. With each city its all about deep pockets no matter how many fortunate 500 companies there are or lack of but i personally think the NBA would do well here especially with some prime notable names that are currently in the NBA that are from here.
St.Louis is a sleeper in my opinion.. We can definitely handle 3 teams specially if other places like Cleveland Pittsburgh Tampa all have 3 teams..
People may bleed Blue & Red here however i think people would bleed whatever NBA team were to be here particularly an expansion team that way it instantly feels like it belongs to St.Louis.
Like I've said before with the 2017 MLB season attendance:
Cardinals: 3.5 million
Cleveland: 2.0 million
Pittsburgh: 1.9 million
Tampa: 1.2 million
We pretty much have 3 teams worth of season attendance since the Cardinals count twice.
Like I've said before with the 2001 major sports attendance:

STL: Cardinals = 3,109,578; Blues (2000-2001) = 800,319; Rams = 528,829. Total = 4,438,726
CLE: Indians = 3,175,523; Cavaliers(2000-2001) = 650,775; Browns = 583,094. Total = 4,409,392
PIT: Pirates = 2,464,870; Penguins (2000-2001) = 655,926; Steelers = 499,191. Total = 3,619,987
TAM: Rays = 1,298,365; Lightning (2000-2001) = 611,173; Buccaneers = 524,468. Total = 2,434,006

Seems like STL used to have three teams' worth of ticket buyers to me. But let's compare all pro teams' attendance last year:

STL: Cardinals = 3,448,337; Blues = 752,624. Total = 4,200,961
CLE: Indians = 2,048,138; Cavaliers = 843,042; Browns = 511,060. Total = 3,402,240
PIT: Pirates = 1,919,447; Penguins = 761,764; Steelers = 499,768. Total = 3,180,979
TAM: Rays = 1,253,619; Lightning = 782,772; Buccaneers = 479,618. Total = 2,516,009

This is all super basic analysis and ignores a lot of factors (how well teams are playing, economics, etc.) But it seems that the Cardinals basically absorbed most of the Rams' ticket sales; there are about 200,000 fewer tickets sold than in what ws essentially St. Louis sports' golden age with three teams. Does that mean those fans would never switch over to an NBA team if one were to locate here? I doubt that. if they did, would losing ~500K ticket sales hurt the Cardinals? No. The most likely answer is that the Cardinals would lose some ticket sales, but more tickets would be sold overall. The STL market has supported three teams before with absolutely zero issues, and it could do so again.

Cleveland is more interesting to me. The Indians won 102 games last year, and have played decent-to-good baseball for years, but haven't drawn anywhere close to 3M fans since 2002. Their ticket sales appear to have simply disappeared into the ether, at least as far as professional teams go. It's hard for the NBA or NFL to steal too many tickets sold just by volume - they simply have fewer seats to sell by comparison. But I wonder what they're spending their money on, and if the loss of a million ticket sales a year hurts Cleveland's reputation as a three-sport town?

But all this is academic. I'm rooting hard for an NBA team to land in STL, but not optimistic that it'll happen any time soon.

-RBB
dweebe wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 9:03 am
Jarrett Sutton @JarrettTSutton
NBA Executive: “Jarrett, going to be real honest with you, Kansas City will get an NBA team at some point. It’s a real thing I’ve heard from multiple sources. Just a matter of time. Seattle and KC to me are most valuable markets for league expansion when it makes sense.”

https://twitter.com/JarrettTSutton/stat ... 3073234944
Thanks for the link!
^ When considering KC for NBA expansion, I question KC's viability as a 4-sport city. The main reason is market size relative to competing franchises. You have the Chiefs, Royals and Sporting KC. I find it hard to believe that KC can add another franchise into the mix, considering the metro area is only 2.1 million people with modest growth, largely in the Hispanic sector. IF they get NBA, one or more of the franchises will suffer. Probably the losing one.

Now, saying this, I understand the Sprint Center is underutilized, does not have a big league tenant and the only competing winter sport is football, but you can only stretch your sports dollar so far in a mid-market like KC. I also understand the basketball history there, but that is mainly for college b-ball.

There are many that think STL is a 2-sport city. I completely disagree. STL is a passionate sports city. I think we should at least have 3, but we know how that went down with NFL and MLS. This is not a knock on KC, just basic math.
rbb wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 10:01 am
dweebe wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:13 pm
St.Louis1764 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:51 pm
How about hosting some pre season NBA games? I think theres a lot more basketball fans than most people would guess & sounds like the people/experts that don't think St.Louis is a honorable city for the NBA don't like St.Louis.. I'm not sure what makes the other cities more desirable or extinguishable from here.. Theres history of success with the NBA here.. With each city its all about deep pockets no matter how many fortunate 500 companies there are or lack of but i personally think the NBA would do well here especially with some prime notable names that are currently in the NBA that are from here.
St.Louis is a sleeper in my opinion.. We can definitely handle 3 teams specially if other places like Cleveland Pittsburgh Tampa all have 3 teams..
People may bleed Blue & Red here however i think people would bleed whatever NBA team were to be here particularly an expansion team that way it instantly feels like it belongs to St.Louis.
Like I've said before with the 2017 MLB season attendance:
Cardinals: 3.5 million
Cleveland: 2.0 million
Pittsburgh: 1.9 million
Tampa: 1.2 million
We pretty much have 3 teams worth of season attendance since the Cardinals count twice.
Like I've said before with the 2001 major sports attendance:

STL: Cardinals = 3,109,578; Blues (2000-2001) = 800,319; Rams = 528,829. Total = 4,438,726
CLE: Indians = 3,175,523; Cavaliers(2000-2001) = 650,775; Browns = 583,094. Total = 4,409,392
PIT: Pirates = 2,464,870; Penguins (2000-2001) = 655,926; Steelers = 499,191. Total = 3,619,987
TAM: Rays = 1,298,365; Lightning (2000-2001) = 611,173; Buccaneers = 524,468. Total = 2,434,006

Seems like STL used to have three teams' worth of ticket buyers to me. But let's compare all pro teams' attendance last year:

STL: Cardinals = 3,448,337; Blues = 752,624. Total = 4,200,961
CLE: Indians = 2,048,138; Cavaliers = 843,042; Browns = 511,060. Total = 3,402,240
PIT: Pirates = 1,919,447; Penguins = 761,764; Steelers = 499,768. Total = 3,180,979
TAM: Rays = 1,253,619; Lightning = 782,772; Buccaneers = 479,618. Total = 2,516,009

This is all super basic analysis and ignores a lot of factors (how well teams are playing, economics, etc.) But it seems that the Cardinals basically absorbed most of the Rams' ticket sales; there are about 200,000 fewer tickets sold than in what ws essentially St. Louis sports' golden age with three teams. Does that mean those fans would never switch over to an NBA team if one were to locate here? I doubt that. if they did, would losing ~500K ticket sales hurt the Cardinals? No. The most likely answer is that the Cardinals would lose some ticket sales, but more tickets would be sold overall. The STL market has supported three teams before with absolutely zero issues, and it could do so again.

Cleveland is more interesting to me. The Indians won 102 games last year, and have played decent-to-good baseball for years, but haven't drawn anywhere close to 3M fans since 2002. Their ticket sales appear to have simply disappeared into the ether, at least as far as professional teams go. It's hard for the NBA or NFL to steal too many tickets sold just by volume - they simply have fewer seats to sell by comparison. But I wonder what they're spending their money on, and if the loss of a million ticket sales a year hurts Cleveland's reputation as a three-sport town?

But all this is academic. I'm rooting hard for an NBA team to land in STL, but not optimistic that it'll happen any time soon.

-RBB
I wanted to compare the most recent two years of all 3 teams here. By this you could argue no one absorbed Rams ticket sales. Blues and Cardinals are basically flat.
2014 Cardinals - 3,540,649 Blues - 760,349 Rams - 456,146 Total - 4,757,144
2015 Cardinals - 3,520,889 Blues -756,483 Rams - 419,220 Total - 4,696,592
^ I thought it would be interesting to take those numbers and in place of the Rams add a mid market NBA team such the Thunder who average 18,032 per game during the 2017/2018 or 746,323 as per the link below. A back of the napkin thought on numbers alone.

2015 Cardinals - 3,520,889 Blues -756,483 Rams - 419,220 Total - 4,696,592

2015 Cardinals - 3,520,889 Blues -756,483 THUNDER 2017/2018 - 746,323 Total - 5,023,695

https://www.statista.com/statistics/197 ... ince-2006/

A delta of roughly 325,000 more seats/tickets. However, seats sold doesn't account for dollars as not all seats are created equal. I'm assuming NFL average sale on a seat has to be higher than NBA. Would NFL ticket sale go on average twice as much as NBA per ticket sale? In other words, You could argue that NBA team would have to sell more tickets to the market but is it really that much different in terms of total sport dollars spent by the region?

So I buy the argument that St Louis could be a three team sports town just on the fact that it has been already and even if growth is slow, the region as a whole is still got more people than less.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... ed-in.html

Dr. Chaifetz, please make this happen! :D
Man... If in 5 years we essentially traded NFL for MLS + NBA that would be the best.
pattimagee wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:15 am
Man... If in 5 years we essentially traded NFL for MLS + NBA that would be the best.
Couldn't image a better outcome for the region (and I loved the Rams).
Here's the text of the article:

Richard Chaifetz has a passion for St. Louis, and now the Saint Louis University benefactor wants to expand his reach beyond the Midtown campus.

Chaifetz, who donated $12 million to help build SLU’s on-campus arena that dons his name, says he doesn’t “just give money to give money.” A passion about what he’s investing in is a requirement.

In 2018, Chaifetz and his wife, Jill, made a $15 million gift to SLU’s business school, which was renamed for him. Now, he’s looking to expand his local investment beyond SLU’s campus. His private investment firm, Chaifetz Group, intends to target St. Louis and the local startup ecosystem, starting with a pitch competition, to be held in partnership with St. Louis nonprofit Arch Grants, later this month. Chaifetz and his son, Ross, director of venture capital at Chaifetz Group, said the Chicago-based firm plans to open offices locally and increase its St. Louis investment across a wide range of opportunities.

“We welcome any entrepreneurs in St. Louis that feel they want to get involved with a group that’s very unique in terms of how they partner with people,” Richard Chaifetz said. “If they’re open to some degree of mentoring, plus the dollars, and are intellectually curious, they won’t find a better group to work with them and help their passions and their dreams.”

Chaifetz is founder, chairman and CEO of Chicago-based ComPsych Corp., which has become the world’s largest provider of employee assistance programs, behavioral health and wellness services. He is founder and chairman of Chaifetz Group.

The Business Journal sat down with Richard and Ross Chaifetz at Chaifetz Arena Sunday to discuss the family’s investment in St. Louis and the duo’s plan to expand its reach in the city. The conversation has been edited for length and clarity

You’ve spoken about Chaifetz Group increasing its investment in St. Louis. What opportunity do you see here?

Richard: I’m very committed to St. Louis and the region given my going to school here and how committed I am to the university. We see St. Louis as a ripe place for entrepreneurs. Forbes Magazine recently ranked it at No. 2 for opportunity for entrepreneurs and venture capital. We’re committed to getting much more involved here. We’re doing this partnership with Arch Grants as a way to kick that off. We plan on opening offices here, having personnel here and significantly investing in the St. Louis ecosystem.

You’ve invested in Pixel Press, a St. Louis-based startup. What did you learn about the St. Louis startup ecosystem based on your involvement with that company?

Richard: We were pleasantly surprised to see the number of early-stage and entrepreneurial ventures in St. Louis. We met with probably 20 to 50 companies going back over the last few years, and we made the Pixel Press investment. I personally met with 10 or 20 companies. There’s great activity, there’s passion, there’s enthusiasm and a lot of out-of-the-box thinking that probably surprises a lot of people when they think of a Midwest city. What’s missing is money and opportunity for some of these entrepreneurs to really accelerate their businesses. And we see ourselves helping to fill some of that void. There’s a number of organizations and firms that have addressed that, but there’s plenty of opportunities for companies like ours and what we bring.

What kind of investment strategy will you take when it comes to St. Louis and investing here?

Richard: We’re going to invest in anything from early-stage up to more mature companies at various levels of opportunity depending on their needs and the match with us. We’re also making some real estate investments here, and any other kinds of opportunistic things that fit within our niche will be investments we look at and make.

Ross: You raised the point about Pixel Press, which was an earlier investment for us and I think that was a very unique case because when we made that investment (in 2014), that was at the beginning of the emergence of the startup scene here in St. Louis. I think it’s really a prime example of what we bring to the table as investors. Pixel Press was a company that had built a great product, but the founder was very product-focused and didn’t necessarily know how to build a great business around the product. So that was a cause where, given my dad’s experience as a first-hand entrepreneur, our marketing, our legal and banking experience sort of (came) to fruition as a whole in helping him grow the company. When we invested, revenue was in the hundreds of thousands, now they’ve done exceedingly well. That’s a prime case of the value we bring to the table here in St. Louis.

How much of your investment approach stems from being an entrepreneur yourself and knowing how much more there is to success beyond good product?

Richard: One, I clearly understand what entrepreneurs struggle with. I was in a little bit of a more unique position. I started my company with less than $1,000. I never raised capital. I was fortunate to build it relatively quick. When I started, capital raising was in the nascent stages. I was forced to think out of the box. That early experience has clearly shaped how I approach business. More importantly, it’s allowed me to bring new ideas and a grittiness to the business and in coaching others. Plus, now our experience in raising capital and investing capital and seeing companies go — like my business — from a small startup to a market leader, entrepreneurs love that. They love to hear the stories. They love to hear the experiences somebody went through and they like to be mentored by someone who’s actually done it as opposed to a banker, a venture capital guy who may have been a financial engineer but not really in the trenches building a company from the beginning.

When making investments in St. Louis companies, will you be looking across all sectors and all industries?

Ross: In general, we’re all across the board and that’s what is unique about being a family office. We can write checks less than $1 million or up to $10 million-plus, given my dad’s expertise and the group we’ve put together. We provide a lot of different tools to that toolkit we mentioned and it gives us an opportunity to look at everything, from A to Z, from small checks to large checks.

Richard: We tend to focus on service industries, tech-enabled industries. We tend to shy away from heavy (capital expenditure), old-school kind of industries, but I wouldn’t say never because we’ve invested in distribution and things like that. Service businesses — that’s what I built my company around. Tech-enabled businesses: fast-growing, interesting businesses. We want people and businesses that stand out, that disrupt the common core and entrepreneurs who are willing to think out of the box, but more importantly have a passion to do things different and have intellectual curiosity to continue to drive them. Without that, we’d probably lose interest

Is this part of a broader expansion into the rest of the country for Chaifetz Group, or this more of a specific decision?

Richard: This is pretty targeted for us right now. We invest across the county now and have even (invested) overseas, but this is a very targeted approach to St. Louis for the reasons we’ve been talking about.

When you made your initial donations to SLU in the 2007, the startup ecosystem in St. Louis was in its beginning stages. It’s grown a lot in terms of venture capital investment and the development in Cortex. How closely have you been watching it develop and what are your takeaways on it?

Richard: Very closely. We think it’s tremendous, and probably long overdue. There’s plenty of opportunity here. I always talk up, as does Ross, the opportunities in St. Louis from Enterprise Zones to entrepreneurs to the city improving and becoming an attraction for people to live. I’m clearly involved with SLU in a big way and with the sports programs. I think focusing on what the community could bring to people who just want to live here, that’s changing and getting better. A lot of the past stigmas St. Louis had are slowly falling by the wayside.

You’ve been a booster of St. Louis for a while, right?

Richard: We walk the walk and talk the talk, even though we are Chicago-based and I’m from New York originally. We make plenty of investments in Chicago clearly since we’re well known there and around the country. I have a passion for St. Louis. We do boost it as much as we can. We advocate people to consider it as a place to start and grow businesses.

What led to your decision to donate $15 million to the business school last year and why now?

Richard: My first donation was driven around paying back a commitment to Saint Louis University for allowing me to stay here in school without having the money to pay my tuition. But my commitment never ends. I believe leaders need to step up and make statements and lead by example. And I wanted to do something big, and business and sports are two passions. So, that was a natural fit for me once that opportunity came up. I’m very passionate about business, and I think if you combine those two together, those are the two areas, in all due respect to all the other programs that the university has, that lead a university. If you have a great business school and a great athletic program, you’re well known. I think we can be a top-10 school in a lot of areas and well-known nationally and internationally if we continue to grow those two very important areas.

With your commitment to the business school, did you feel a greater obligation to be involved in the St. Louis business community?

Richard: Yeah, I’m going to get much more involved in the business community. Hence, why we are getting involved with our investments. I’ll be very involved in the business school as well as Ross. He’s going to get more involved. I’m bringing other well-known people from, not just St. Louis but around the country that I have contacts with to get involved. I want to elevate the business school to be a top 10 business school, a top 10 entrepreneurship program.

Ross: I’d be careful to call it an obligation to be involved in the business community. I think what we saw and what excited my dad and our family about making the investment in the business school is all this excitement in the business community in general. My dad mentioned the Forbes article and everything that’s being talked about in terms of the excitement around the startup and business ecosystem here. We saw it as an opportunity to pour fuel on the fire, if you will. With the investment, we see it as a way to really go full steam and get the best students we can on campus and build the businesses to not only support the university but the greater St. Louis ecosystem as a whole.

With your donation for the arena and the business school, do you feel like you’ve had a positive return on those investments?

Richard: The donation to the Chaifetz Arena is probably my No. 1 philanthropic activity that I’m most proud of, most excited about and have the most fun with. Every single day, I’m glad I did it and it’s been an important part of my life. I also believe the donation to the Richard A. Chaifetz School of Business that involvement will be up there as well as something I’ll look back down the road and say I’m glad I did it.
symphonicpoet wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:21 am
Here's the text of the article:

FYI, I don't think it's kosher to post full articles, especially from subscription sites.
says super member to veteran member... 8)
Oh, he's technically correct. It's just . . . so very simple. Security theatre. The site isn't really locked in any real way. I assure you, I'm neither a subscriber to that particular site nor much of a hacker. Thus I'm forced to assume they don't actually care and just do it for show. Just hit stop. Sometimes you have to repeat the process. I thought about summarizing it, but I'm way too lazy and I'm not really a B-ball guy particularly. Figured Midcoaststl might get more out of it than me. Mea culpa.
If you go to Outline.com you can put any link with a paywall into it and it will spit out the text for you.