Rams Potential New Stadium/Relocation

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First unread post3983 posts
whitherSTL wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:09 am
On the other hand, I wonder if lack of entertainment options in STL contributes to the increased originating traffic out of Lambert. I too was a season ticket holder (4 seats 100 section) and that $10k-$15K is now spent on vacations.
Did that $10-$15k go to restaurants and hotel rooms or just to the season tickets? Let's not confuse the money spent on tickets with the money spent downtown.
^ I live in STL so it wouldn't go to hotels. It went to tickets, beer and food at games, and pre-partying and post-game partying. And it was fun.
I don't doubt the fun part one bit. I think that people may be over stating the money they're not spending in the city though. If $14k of the $15k you listed went to tickets, concessions, or merchandise then the majority of that would have just went to Kroenke's pockets anyways. I'm sure you spend a bit more money around town / in the region than you realize.

Now, if someone wanted to argue about the loss of income tax from the players... that may hold a bit more water in my opinion.
Yeah, you may have a point. I'm just saying for my family we now go on vacations with a scope that we didn't focus on when Rams were here...Anyway, good conversation.
gary kreie wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:43 pm

I imagine folks who go the Art Museum are in the minority. So should we get rid of it? Same with the Zoo, Botanical Gardens, Symphony, etc.
and those things are paid for via donations and a tax that city and county residents voted on.
chaifetz10 wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:49 am
I don't doubt the fun part one bit. I think that people may be over stating the money they're not spending in the city though. If $14k of the $15k you listed went to tickets, concessions, or merchandise then the majority of that would have just went to Kroenke's pockets anyways. I'm sure you spend a bit more money around town / in the region than you realize.

Now, if someone wanted to argue about the loss of income tax from the players... that may hold a bit more water in my opinion.
I'll throw out my game experience since people are including theirs, a buddy and myself would get semi-cheap tickets to most home games on secondary markets, go down to Wash Ave for pregame lunch and beers. We would watch the game (including one in game beer, all we spent in the stadium), then head back to the Wash Ave bars for post game fun. Since they left I know do house work on Sundays. Just my personal situation but Wash Ave is losing all that money we spent there on Sundays.

So in some cases, not everyone's, but money isn't being spent downtown because football left. If people would have voted for the MLS stadium, this money would be directed towards that but since it was turned down I keep my money and travel for sports (went to Boston and Denver this year for Cards games).
Remember the convention center books out conferences several years in advance. With all these new summer fall and winter dates opening up with the Rams departure new conference attendees will be spending their $$ down there. Conventions and conferences have many more room nights than the Rams ever had. Is this why we’re seeing so many hotel proposals? It’s Too bad we couldn’t have both even thought the the NFL is now dead to me.
Just going to through this out there. I've said it before.

I truly thing the NFL bubble is bursting. It's still technically in the growing part of the burst, but I think it's happening. For multiple reasons. But I think the head injury issue will be the final blow (no pun intended).

Funding for almost any other kind of stadium is a bit of a different conversation for that reason alone. I think we really escaped a major boondoggle by cutting ties with the NFL a little in advance of when the rest of the country will be forced to.
gary kreie wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:53 am
Same here on not spending my former Rams money locally, as Show-Me claimed would happen and we would all break even. I spent my fall and former Rams season ticket/restaurant/parking money on a trip to Europe.
Hey the more of us go to Europe the more likely we are to get a Trans Atlantic flight. Win win.

In all seriousness though, we happy few don't amount to anything statistically. Anecdotal. Not really relevant. I'd be more interested to know what tax revenues were in the neighborhood with the team there and what they are without it, what hotel bookings were and what they are now. And to get a fair comparison we should look at a sample of years that includes winning and not just the more recent sort. And a sample after the convention center is renovated as well. I suspect it will take a few years to really judge the fallout. But even assuming every game sells out that's about six hundred thousand visits a year. Which isn't trivial, but I doubt it's in the top ten tourist attractions locally, or even the top twenty. How many visits does the Botanical Garden generate? The Arch? The Art Museum? And what percentage of those people book a hotel room? How many folks buy meals? I really feel like we're running around in circles. Without data it's hard to really say much.
Here's hoping that the STL legal team does not settle out of court. Make SK, Fisher and company take the stand letting everyone know that the fix was in....

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... e-trending
courtland wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:44 pm
Here's hoping that the STL legal team does not settle out of court. Make SK, Fisher and company take the stand letting everyone know that the fix was in....

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... e-trending

This is a huge deal. NFL will want to settle ASAP. For me, this will be the most important story of 2018.
The Rams have an ace up their sleeve - the Rams Park practice facility in Earth City. Under the current terms they can purchase it for just $1. According to this article it's appraised at $19 million.

http://fox2now.com/2016/03/24/deal-may- ... ity-for-1/


PS The NFL is dead to me.
moorlander wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:03 pm
The Rams have an ace up their sleeve - the Rams Park practice facility in Earth City. Under the current terms they can purchase it for just $1. According to this article it's appraised at $19 million.

http://fox2now.com/2016/03/24/deal-may- ... ity-for-1/


PS The NFL is dead to me.
Isn't it right by Bridgeton Landfill? How can that ever be worth $19 million? Just curious..
Interesting that this has received absolutely zero coverage in the LA Times and Sam Farmer, who meticulously covered the proceedings centered around relocation has not mentioned it on twitter or anywhere else once.

Wonder if Stan put a gag order on local LA media?
The LA Rams have the second worst fan base in the NFL. No matter; actual fans are meaningless in today's NFL:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/cowboys-pa ... 19728.html
framer wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:25 pm
The LA Rams have the second worst fan base in the NFL. No matter; actual fans are meaningless in today's NFL:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/cowboys-pa ... 19728.html
LA Rams were dead last (32nd) in 2 of the 3 categories -- How much fans spend on team tickets/memorabilia, and how much fans discuss their team on social media. The Rams are pulled up to 31st overall, just ahead of the Titans, because the author ranks the Rams fans 22nd in the 3rd category -- how well they draw on the road, adjusted for their record.

While the author goes to great lengths explaining his math behind the first two categories, he does not explain his methodology at all for the 3rd category. How would one even figure out how to count that one? The author says the Rams draw Rams fans on the road better than 10 other teams - Jags, Cards, Seahawks, 49ers, Panthers, Chiefs, Ravens, Titans, Browns, ad Texans. I don't believe that. Given their excellent record in 2017 and that they made the playoff, LA fans would have to turn out in droves in other cities to justify road fan ranking that high. Not remotely believable. Rams should be last in all 3 categories.
I'm looking at what is happening with Turner Field. Georgia State have downsized and renovated it into a college football stadium and a team from the new AAF league will be using it also from 2019.

Is there no possibility of any of the colleges in the local area ever starting a football program and using the dome? How is the dome actually doing without football?
Very well. They can host waaay more conventions now that they don’t have to reserve every fall weekend until the NFL releases the schedule. The Rams leaving has actually increased traffic at the Dome.
^^Correct. There is no chance of a local college starting a football program and using the Dome.


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chaifetz10 wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:46 pm
Very well. They can host waaay more conventions now that they don’t have to reserve every fall weekend until the NFL releases the schedule. The Rams leaving has actually increased traffic at the Dome.
Has it increased traffic though? I don't think I've ever seen numbers to either back that up or refute it. But to hear Gerard Craft tell it, the convention center has actually lost a lot of business.

-RBB
The Rams drew more than half a million folks downtown every fall on game days. Most are locals so don't necessrily fill hotels, and a lot of restaurants downtown were closed at lunch time anyway on Sundays ahead of Rams games. But I'm sure they sold a lot of food and drink inside the stadium. How many conventions are so big that they require the dome and hence lock-out stadium-required events like football? Not that many I suspect. The Enterprise Center and Busch seem to be able to interleave frequent rock concerts and frequent sporting events. But the dome is so busy it can't be done there?

I see that Taylor Swift is doing a concert in the dome in September. Hollywood Casino Amphitheater hosts concerts about every other night on average in the summer, but I think it all ends there in mid September. Busch is hosting quite a few outdoor concerts. Why doesn't the Dome try to do what the Amphitheater does and become the downtown indoor amphitheater for rock concerts 15 times per month? Especially in the off-season. Air conditioned, no weather concerns, full lighting control, year round, all-chair seating. It seems as if it could compete with other huge outdoor concert venues, and do it a lot better.

Busch does dynamic pricing to try to fill every seat. Imagine if the non-floor seats were like the grass seats at Hollywood Casino. They could even have a limited number of free seats for every concert. Price to fill the place -- concert format.
There are a limited number of acts that can draw an audience big enough to justify a space that big (Taylor Swift, U2). I think the best you could hope for is 3 to 4 shows a year.
It's worth keeping in mind that the rent the convention center gets isn't necessarily tied to the number of seats. I'm sure a fair few organizations get a reduced rate for one reason or another, but most the money from your Taylor Swift ticket isn't going to the building. The production costs of something like that are enormous and eat up a lot of revenue. And while concerts undoubtedly do sell hotel rooms the little stuff often runs longer. Ten or twenty thousand hotel rooms for one night aren't necessarily better than two or three thousand hotel rooms for a week. I personally got a lot more work out of ongoing little events than concerts. And I worked a LOT of concerts, mind you. Not knocking concerts at all. But you can't just count the big shows and assume that's the economic impact. It's really the little shows that keep the lights on. Seminars. Boat shows. Heck, even things like the Missouri Asphalt and Pavement Association annual conference. Not sexy, but I've worked it and it's every bit as big as a large boat show or even a modest rock concert. Firemen's balls. Fundraisers. Charity auctions. There's . . . tons and tons of little events that keep a convention center going. I personally attended a model railroad show inside that dome. NMRA national convention. Went on for a few days. Brought people from all over the country, believe it or not. (Including me. I was living out of town then.) Anyway . . . I have full faith there are enough events in Missouri to keep that dome busy. There is competition, mind. Even in St. Louis the dome has to go up against Kiel, SLU, Wash U., hotels, UMSL, and dozens of smaller venues like clubs. Any good sized gym or ballroom can serve as convention space. Nothing is ever a shoe in. Even the really big shows, which might just skip St. Louis altogether.
Obviously a long shot, imo. But this guy was way ahead of the Rams relocation, pretty sure he has ins with Stans crew.

"I'm not saying St. Louis should pitch the #Chargers on a new home...but yes, that is exactly what I'm suggesting."

https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status ... 7017396226

With the lawsuit, etc it might be something to just keep an eye on.
jshank83 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:41 pm
Obviously a long shot, imo. But this guy was way ahead of the Rams relocation, pretty sure he has ins with Stans crew.

"I'm not saying St. Louis should pitch the #Chargers on a new home...but yes, that is exactly what I'm suggesting."

https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status ... 7017396226

With the lawsuit, etc it might be something to just keep an eye on.
Energizer would make a good corporate partner for the Chargers