Looks like the NBA is finally settling with the Silna Brothers. I wonder if that means that we have now have hope of getting an NBA team within the next few decades. Also, do they still live around here? Thats quite a bit of money to inject into a local family if so.
On Tuesday, the Silnas, the league and the four former A.B.A. teams will announce a conditional deal that will end the Silnas’ golden annuity. Almost.
The Silnas are to receive a $500 million upfront payment, financed through a private placement of notes by JPMorgan Chase and Merrill Lynch, according to three people with direct knowledge of the agreement. The deal would end the enormous perpetual payments and settle a lawsuit filed in federal court by the Silnas that demanded additional compensation from sources of television revenue that did not exist in 1976
JuanHamez wrote:Looks like the NBA is finally settling with the Silna Brothers. I wonder if that means that we have now have hope of getting an NBA team within the next few decades. Also, do they still live around here? Thats quite a bit of money to inject into a local family if so.
On Tuesday, the Silnas, the league and the four former A.B.A. teams will announce a conditional deal that will end the Silnas’ golden annuity. Almost.
The Silnas are to receive a $500 million upfront payment, financed through a private placement of notes by JPMorgan Chase and Merrill Lynch, according to three people with direct knowledge of the agreement. The deal would end the enormous perpetual payments and settle a lawsuit filed in federal court by the Silnas that demanded additional compensation from sources of television revenue that did not exist in 1976
I am pretty sure they never lived here, I think they were from New York - NBA is probably out of the question - It depends heavily on big corporate support - boxes etc... We do not have that kind of presence to be a big 4 city - MLS different story - requires much less money to operate
Let there be no doubt that what the Silnas Brothers did with selling the Spirits was likely the greatest business deal ever conducted. They took a dying enterprise that they didn't really want and turned it into a perpetual annuitized revenue stream. What they've received in cash payments is worth more than many NBA teams have made over these same years; but, while the other owners had to manage teams, all they had to do was stay alive, do nothing, and cash the checks. Seriously, one of the most amazing business stories ever. They're really generous to end this with a $500MM lump sum cash payment.
As the Silvas' contract now ends, it very much will make STL a more likely candidate City for an NBA team. The legal hurdles potential STL NBA owners have had to endure were very prohibitive to seriously courting a team; while I'm not sure of the elemental constraints upon future NBA owners in the STL market post-Silvas, I'm sure they weren't letting STL go without a thumb in the future pie, maybe another 1/7th.
Clear this up, and it's that much easier for the NBA to look at STL. I'm not thinking we'll get an NBA team any time soon, but certainly better than before.
I doubt they live around here. The Spirits were only in St. Louis for 2 years and they Silna's were planning to move them to Utah had the ABA-NBA merger not happened. They spent seasons in Houston and Carolina in the seven seasons prior to coming to St. Louis.
The Spirits are cool because old things are cool, the name is cool, and Bob Costas was their broadcaster. They're relevant because of this crazy TV deal. But they really don't have any big role in St. Louis sports history.
I also don't think this would play a major role in whether or not St. Louis ever gets an NBA team. We ALMOST had one when then-owner of the Blues (and Stan Kroenke's brother-in-law, another husband to a Walmart heiress) Bill Laurie nearly bought the Vancouver Grizzlies and moved them to St. Louis.
Instead, the NBA required him to agree to keep them in Vancouver for 5 years, so he backed out. The next year the Grizzlies were sold to a different buyer and allowed to move to Memphis immediately. That's always upset me.
Now I don't see St. Louis getting a team for a very long. There aren't very many unstable markets in the NBA, and if the NBA does find new or different markets, there are cities ahead of us that meet one or both of their two main factors: 1. A city with relatively few competing professional sports teams (typically no-NHL), and 2. A new and existing or financed plan for a new arena.
The Scottrade Center is fine, but it's not shiny, and we've already got the MLB, NFL, and NHL. And while there are many factors in play, we haven't exactly proven with NFL and NHL attendance and ticket prices that we've got the extra income as a market to support another team.
I wouldn't say never, but I'd be amazed if St. Louis is even in the conversation for an NBA team in the next 15 years.
Sorry, I don't mean to be negative. I would LOVE to get a team. I just don't think it'll happen in the near to mid-term.
If St. Louis ever got an NBA team, we would be the smallest city/market to have all 4 major sports. St. Louis existed as a NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL town for one year.
^If for some reason we did get an NBA team , I think the Blues would be done. Look what happened to hockey attendance this fall. The Blues couldn't compete with the Cardinals, Rams, and Mizzou. The NBA has too many stars, and I think the Blues would lose out trying to compete in the STL market against an NBA team.
pat wrote:^If for some reason we did get an NBA team , I think the Blues would be done. Look what happened to hockey attendance this fall. The Blues couldn't compete with the Cardinals, Rams, and Mizzou. The NBA has too many stars, and I think the Blues would lose out trying to compete in the STL market against an NBA team.
Regardless, the Silnas deal is/was facinating.
Exactly, I could see the NBA setting up shop in STL if either the NFL or NHL leaves town. Other than that, we would need to add another million people.
^^ The Blues attendance usually doesn't pick up until around Christmas, this has been the case for sometime now. Also, Stillman isn't selling discounted tickets like Checketts did. So a slight dip is expected, but the team is on fire now and attendance as picked up. The Blues are doing alright, all things considered, but I do wonder how much longer they can go on without a deep pocketed owner like Laurie. Stillman said he isn't in it to make money and I believe him. The city owns the attached parking garage, they run Scottrade Center and the Opera House. It's tough sledding but 47 years and it's still 'Long Live the Note'.
No, I don't think an NBA team would doom the Blues, If it came down to it St. Louis would pick the Blues again.
I always say though an NBA fanbase would be unique to itself in St. Louis. I went to the Bulls Grizzlies game and it was the most diverse crowd I've seen at a sporting event in St. Louis.
And why is it Denver gets to count Colorado Springs to beef up their market size but St. Louis doesn't get to include the 1 million people it draws to Cardinals games year-in and year-out? That's 40% of their annual attendance. I wonder where we rank among MLB teams in that category?
As for the Rams, no city has had dealt with the worst 5 year stretch in NFL history in the middle of the great recession and a lease hanging over their heads like Rams fans. They still pull in a very respectable ~54,000. And attendance wise, we only rank at best 20th in the league. Rams fans are awesome and they've only had 4 winning seasons since moving to St. Louis.
We're only 14 years removed from being named the greatest sports town in America, however trivial that sounds. We're a damn good sports city. We punch above our weight and if we got an NBA team I'd hope we'd make it work. The Hawks would have been much better off here than in Atlanta.
But I don't think it'll happen, I believe this deal was made to expand into London. David Stern never loved us.
pat wrote:^If for some reason we did get an NBA team , I think the Blues would be done. Look what happened to hockey attendance this fall. The Blues couldn't compete with the Cardinals, Rams, and Mizzou. The NBA has too many stars, and I think the Blues would lose out trying to compete in the STL market against an NBA team.
I don't think so. Maybe you can attribute lower attendance in October to the Cardinals but there is no way that NFL or Mizzou games would cause any significant change.
I think STL could support a NBA team but it would have to be good or they would face similar issues as the Rams. It would be more difficult to sell boxes for the teams but I don't think the attendance would suffer at Blues games because there is a NBA team in town.
Denver is bigger if you include Colorado Springs and Boulder. (I say it should)
Combined statistical area for Denver-Boulder is 3.2 million. St. Louis combined statistical area is 3.0 million. Msa Denver is 2.6. Msa St Louis is 2.8.
flipz wrote:
I don't think so. Maybe you can attribute lower attendance in October to the Cardinals but there is no way that NFL or Mizzou games would cause any significant change.
Sure it could. Most weekend games for the Blues were on Sat. on Sun. which would compete with NCAAF and NFL. Another part of it is that most of their games were during the week around the holidays which of course doesn't help either.
Maybe St. Louis could handle both the NBA and NHL. I have my doubts, but I sure would like to try it out.
flipz wrote:
I don't think so. Maybe you can attribute lower attendance in October to the Cardinals but there is no way that NFL or Mizzou games would cause any significant change.
Sure it could. Most weekend games for the Blues were on Sat. on Sun. which would compete with NCAAF and NFL. Another part of it is that most of their games were during the week around the holidays which of course doesn't help either.
Maybe St. Louis could handle both the NBA and NHL. I have my doubts, but I sure would like to try it out.
I'll take an MLS team first. Blues hockey, Rams football and SLU basketball is enough fall/winter indoor sports for me.
I think Denver is unique in that NBA/NHL is under one ownership group and owns the arena they play in if not mistaken. I think you would have to see that happen in St. Louis to be a NFL/MLB/NHL and NBA town.
I think Mizzou competing for sport dollars with pro teams from both STL and KC is valid. Especially with them going into SEC. It is turning out to be a big plus on their end, in terms of athletes, attention, standings, so on. Their basketball team is pretty good this year to follow up an outstanding football season.
EDIT - wow I really screwed up the formatting on this one. Sorry about that...
beer city wrote:
JuanHamez wrote:NBA is probably out of the question - It depends heavily on big corporate support - boxes etc... We do not have that kind of presence to be a big 4 city - MLS different story - requires much less money to operate
Since Denver was discussed upthread, here are Fortune list of the largest companies in the St. Louis and Denver area. Per this thread on City-Data, as of May 2013 Denver has 10 Fortune 500 companies and 5 of the largest privately-held companies; St. Louis has 9 Fortune 500 companies and 5 of the largest privately held companies:
Denver: 10 +5 = 15
141 Arrow Electronics $20.4 Billion
189 DISH Network $14.3 Billion
256 Liberty Global $10.6 Billion
270 Liberty Interactive $10.1 Billion
274 Newmont Mining $9.9 Billion
301 Ball $8.7 Billion
311 DaVita HealthCare Partners $8.5 Billion
398 Level 3 Communications $6.4 Billion
415 C2HM Hill $6.2 Billion
445 Western Union $5.7 Billion 17 TransMontaigne $14.2 Billion
63 CH2M Hill Cos $5.6 Billion
128 Sports Authority $3.4 Billion
129 ProBuild Holdings $3.3 Billion
169 Leprino Foods $2.7 Billion
193 Hensel Phelps Construction $2.3 Billion
St Louis: 9 +5 = 14
24 Express Scripts Holdings $94.4 Billion
123 Emerson Electric $24.5 Billion
206 Monsanto $13.5 Billion
275 Reinsurance Group of America $9.8 Billion
303 Centene $8.7 Billion
315 Peabody Energy $8.3 Billion
373 Ameren $6.8 Billion
465 Graybar Electric $5.4 Billion
491 Jones Financial $5.0 Billion 20 Enterprise Holdings $13.5 Billion
65 Graybar Electric $5.4 Billion
81 Edward Jones 4.6 Billion
85 Apex Oil $4.4 Billion
93 World Wide Technology 4.1 Billion
182 Schnuck Markets $2.5 Billion
190 McCarthy Holdings $2.4 Billion
Look at the revenues and you'll see that Denver's 15 companies total $132.3B in revenue. The St. Louis-area companies total a whopping $213.3B
The argument that there's not enough big companies in St. Louis to feasibly buy corporate boxes for 4 different teams rings hollow. Heck, Express Scripts alone might be able to do it all by itself...
Denver is also the City of the Mountain Time Zone. Outside of Denver, you've got, at best, UC Boulder and Boise State University. Pro sports fans from the Dakotas, Montana, etc. are more likely to identify with Denver than other teams because, while not close, it's proximate.
Focus: The Silvas (who split time between Florida and New Jersey) having their new deal with the NBA terminates their previous contract, which to a degree held their ownership interest in the STL market. Very much, prospective owners for a STL-based NBA team post-Spirits had to deal with the effects of the Silva contract still being in effect. From more than one highly-connected source in the STL Biz community, I've heard that their contract's existence effectively negated any and all real chances to get a team in STL, even impacting upon the Lauries' attempt to acquire the Vancouver (now Memphis) Grizzlies 10+ years ago.
With this contract terminated, I think it much more likely that STL would be considered for a pro ball team. I don't expect it to happen any time soon, but it's so much more likely now. I do think STL is more likely to land a MLS team before a NBA team.
gone corporate wrote:Denver is also the City of the Mountain Time Zone. Outside of Denver, you've got, at best, UC Boulder and Boise State University. Pro sports fans from the Dakotas, Montana, etc. are more likely to identify with Denver than other teams because, while not close, it's proximate.
-Root Sports has one hell of a footprint and spreads Rockies games over like 8 states.
-Altitude Sports (owned by Stan Kronke) shows Avalanche and Nuggets games over an equally large area
-the Broncos also have a large TV footprint and fan base. I know cities like Omaha, Albuquerque, Salt lake City and many others all have the Broncos as their main team
gone corporate wrote:Focus: The Silvas (who split time between Florida and New Jersey) having their new deal with the NBA terminates their previous contract, which to a degree held their ownership interest in the STL market.
flipz wrote:
I don't think so. Maybe you can attribute lower attendance in October to the Cardinals but there is no way that NFL or Mizzou games would cause any significant change.
Sure it could. Most weekend games for the Blues were on Sat. on Sun. which would compete with NCAAF and NFL. Another part of it is that most of their games were during the week around the holidays which of course doesn't help either.
Maybe St. Louis could handle both the NBA and NHL. I have my doubts, but I sure would like to try it out.
I'll take an MLS team first.
We have shown as a region that there is demand for a pro soccer team. I think we could support MLS and NBA on top of everything we already have.
The Blues have a great future here in town independent of what other teams happen to be playing. They have a loyal and growing fanbase.
While the attendance is down, the blues are more or less in the middle of the pack at 88.6% of capacity. A lot of teams above them are at or over capacity.
gone corporate wrote:Denver is also the City of the Mountain Time Zone. Outside of Denver, you've got, at best, UC Boulder and Boise State University. Pro sports fans from the Dakotas, Montana, etc. are more likely to identify with Denver than other teams because, while not close, it's proximate.
-Root Sports has one hell of a footprint and spreads Rockies games over like 8 states.
-Altitude Sports (owned by Stan Kronke) shows Avalanche and Nuggets games over an equally large area
-the Broncos also have a large TV footprint and fan base. I know cities like Omaha, Albuquerque, Salt lake City and many others all have the Broncos as their main team
Wait a minute. Broncos maybe. But since we're talking NBA, Salt Lake has its own NBA team. And who is going to drive 6 hours from Omaha or Albuquerque when teams in Minneapolis & Phoenix are as close or closer? And Boise? Who would make that 12 hour drive for a mid-week NBA game in Denver? No, with so many NBA games, I think they have to be drawing primarily from their own Denver metro area. You're struggling to make the case that St. Louis sports support should naturally be inferior to Denver sports, but it's not working. I would have thought Denver couldn't support 4 organized teams because they have so much outdoor sport nearby with mountains for fishing, hiking, and skiing. But they do support 4 teams. Therefore, so could St. Louis.
Denver has a slightly larger media market and I suspect its teams get much more revenue from this source than StL's, but I think we could support an NBA team.
roger wyoming II wrote:Denver has a slightly larger media market and I suspect its teams get much more revenue from this source than StL's, but I think we could support an NBA team.
We possibly could if the ownership situation was very different.
The Kronke clan owns the:
-Nuggets basketball team
-Avalanche hockey team
-Mammoth indoor lacrosse team
-broadcast network they're all shown on
-the Pepsi Center where they all play along with most of the parking lots surrounding it
That sort of integration in one building is invaluable and doesn't exist here. That's a huge barrier to St. Louis becoming a 4 sports town.
