Fox Park Update

Discuss renovations and new residential construction in South City -- defined by the area south of Interstate 44/55.
Does anyone have any information on the current status of Fox Park? How is the neighborhood? How is the Real Estate stock? Can anyone provide information on a neighborhood website of any sort?

Thanks,
Tom Tricamo
I've lived here since August, 2010. Here's the neighborhood association website:http://foxparkstl.org/ You can check GEO STL for property values. PM me if you want details on the neighborhood.
Housing stock is excellent; very similar to Tower Grove East. Neighborhood stability is comparable to surrounding Tower Grove and Shaw areas. The neighborhood has a local historic district, which governs alterations to existing homes and sets standards for new construction, which is an asset for long-term retention of neighborhood character. The neighborhood has a wikipedia page if you are interested, but the photo used on the site is actually in Tower Grove East :roll:
I really miss my Fox Park neighbors. CAN'T WAIT to get back into the neighborhood. There is only one small pocket that causes problems within the neighborhood and surrounding areas, and I thought it would have been taken care of by now, but I guess it takes time. Its an area definitely worth searching.
urbz wrote:
I really miss my Fox Park neighbors. CAN'T WAIT to get back into the neighborhood. There is only one small pocket that causes problems within the neighborhood and surrounding areas, and I thought it would have been taken care of by now, but I guess it takes time. Its an area definitely worth searching.


And what is that pocket, per se? I'm looking at properties in the area.
The neighborhood doesn't really have pockets of "good" and "bad" so any part of the 'hood is a safe bet if you're looking to buy. The area is stable, and the expansion of the historic district should further stabilize the southern half near Gravois. There is a wannabe "gang" in the neighborhood that's nothing more than a group of young guys with nothing better to do--emphasis on wannabe. Nothing that you won't find in any other neighborhood, they just identify themselves with a name. Their presence is rarely noticed aside from a few random tags on public and private property, and you usually have to know what you're looking for to see them. Its just a nuisance, but a serious problem that needs to be taken care of, and I am disappointed that they are still around.
With that said, I would not think twice about moving back. The more ownership in Fox Park, the better it will get. I lived in one of the last rentals remaining on my street (all others had been converted to single family homes) and I have never had better neighbors. Overall, it's a very quiet and safe place. Everyone is aware of the few problems that occur(few and far between in my experience) so if anything does happen, you never feel isolated in Fox Park. The neighborhood association is the best I have ever witnessed, and a great outlet for anything on your mind that is related to the neighborhood. Coupled with the Yahoo listserve, it is a powerful tool. The "Fox Parker" in me gets really excited when someone is looking to move into the neighborhood, and I know your future neighbors feel the same way. There's something about that neighborhood that makes you want to share it with everyone else.
They are "wannabes" that still cause property damage. It really depends on your tolerance for car break-ins, copper theft and other general qulity of life/nuissance issues.
I've been here about 5 years now. The rehabbing slowed when the recession hit, but it still moved along. When I moved on my block there were several empty properties, all but three have been rehabbed, one was just purchased for a gut rehab. I was on the board for years and continuously saw new neighbors moving in. I know there is a lot of work going on in the actual park and they plan to move forward with the master plan.
Overall, if you are involved, its a very tight knit community. No one around me has had any real issues with crime besides the occasional car break in. The location in my opinion is one of the best.
Feel free to PM me with any questions, I'm familiar with most of the blocks.
I am glad things keep improving in Fox Park. Its a very important neighborhood connecting some of the other neighborhoods on the near south side.
Two long abandoned/crumbling/copper stripped 4 families have been purchased and are being renovated in the 2700 block of Ann (nearest California). Rumor has it by an investor in the neighborhood. They will still be 4 family rentals. Let's hope they screen their tenants. It's nice to see rehabs still strong in FP. Streetview:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Ann+Avenu ... .1,,0,5.24
Having conducted some analysis of this neighborhood, and having a pretty strong understanding of rental property investment, I can assure you no one would buy 2 4-fams that need complete rehabs only to rent them out to Sec 8 or nefarious characters. The numbers just aren't there.

I would tell you there is enough Hipster/Urbanist draw to the area to get some pretty great tenants down there.

This is exactly why I started the thread.

Great to hear some people are making a move on Fox Park. Long term, this neighborhood is going to absolutely explode.

Tiffany and Fox Park are two of my favorite "long-term play" real estate investment neighborhoods. I would put The Gate District in there but there is so much vacant land I would be nervous buying property there from an investment perspective.
ttricamo wrote:
Having conducted some analysis of this neighborhood, and having a pretty strong understanding of rental property investment, I can assure you no one would buy 2 4-fams that need complete rehabs only to rent them out to Sec 8 or nefarious characters. The numbers just aren't there.

I would tell you there is enough Hipster/Urbanist draw to the area to get some pretty great tenants down there.

This is exactly why I started the thread.

Great to hear some people are making a move on Fox Park. Long term, this neighborhood is going to absolutely explode.

Tiffany and Fox Park are two of my favorite "long-term play" real estate investment neighborhoods. I would put The Gate District in there but there is so much vacant land I would be nervous buying property there from an investment perspective.

I like the optimism! I would add Marine Villa to my "long term play" list, lots to like over there. Fox Park will take all the hipsters and urbanists we can get! They are a rare breed in these parts.
^ Just my opinion, but I think Marine Villa is a bit far from the city's growing institutions/downtown to really jump much. Of course, I think FPSE/The Grove is a wise investment. Developers can still pick up LRA properties, or vacant buildings for the $20-40K range. There's never a guarantee, but with CORTEX/BJC/WU doing big things, access to soon-to-be two MetroLink stops, etc., it should be a solid place.
Anecdotally it seems that good things flow from the central corridor down, in South City. Seems like Fox Park is in the right spot. My neighborhood, for instance, is heavily meds and eds (central corridor employment), and seems like it is slooowly becoming even more so. I don't claim to understand completely the forces and factors at work on the Greater Southside, but you have different processes at work in different areas. The slowdown of the economy made these harder to discern. I'm sure that all of us could draw our own real estate maps of where you are bullish, bearish, and in between. Fox Park would fall solidly on the bullish side...FPSE/The Grove too.

I know people like to make blanket statements about the southside, speaking in hyperbole, but it's practically a city in itself with...what, well over 100,000 people?
IMO - this historic (100yo) neighborhoods/architecture really appeal to younger residents. I don't know that I'd be bullish on Southampton (I know many, many will disagree) because I don't think the homes are as large/attractive/adaptable.
Alex Ihnen wrote:
I don't know that I'd be bullish on Southampton (I know many, many will disagree) because I don't think the homes are as large/attractive/adaptable.


Really Alex? I gotta disagree. It almost feels solid in that urban inner suburban way with it's own little business district and lots of trees. There definitely seems to be a market for west-of-Kingshighway but in South City folks. As well, it's not like it needs that much attention and help, and it's a damn solid neighborhood for the midwest, anyway. I wish St. Louis had more neighborhoods like it, as a matter of fact.

'Sides, if we start going that way there's going to be some bruised hearts, you know how we all are with our neighborhoods...just-a-sayin'. :)
I love the optimism too! I think Fox Park and McKinley Heights will blow up eventually and sort of link everything together. Really, everything from north of Cherokee. Out of towners will be crucial. There's only so many neighborhoods like this in the USA. And people like it. It *feels* like how a person should live. URBAN is an invention of Western Civilization. It doesn't belong to crime and neglect and violence. That's only a recent development and only in the USA. Things are a little slower to happen in St. Louis because because of the demographics.

A lot of this is just clean-up. Literally, just picking up and cleaning up and doing a day's worth of landscaping. Obviously, the housing has gotta be fixed in a lot of cases and that's where the money comes in but some standard issue "pride" work would be start. You think some of these losers down here ever stop to marvel at the intricate brickwork on your house and give thought to the person who went to the trouble of producing it? Doubtful.

Let me say this again:

URBAN IS AN INVENTION OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION. IT IS NOT TRENDY OR HIPSTER TO WANT TO LIVE IN THE CITY AND THE URBAN ENVIRONMENT. IT IS NATURAL AND NORMAL. IT FEELS RIGHT. FROM BERLIN TO LONDON TO BARCELONA TO HONG KONG TO COPENHAGEN TO DETROIT TO ST LOUIS. ONLY IN AMERICA HAVE SOME CITIES DEVISED IN THE URBAN WESTERN CIVILIZATION MODE BECOME A ZONE OF NEGLECT AND IN SOME CASES PARTIALLY ERASED FROM THE MAP (NOT COUNTING WORLD WARS).

Sorry, this was stream of consciousness Kerouac style with no edits....as always...I could be wrong.
^ I think "urban" is likely an invention of eastern, or African origin.
leeharveyawesome wrote:
URBAN IS AN INVENTION OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION. IT IS NOT TRENDY OR HIPSTER TO WANT TO LIVE IN THE CITY AND THE URBAN ENVIRONMENT.


I'm definitely not an expert or studied on the origins of urbanism, just found this point interesting (and sidenote - yes, I've always felt best in a highly urban environment). However, it seems likely the reasons for one wanting (or needing) to live in an urban environment are wide and what might've been 100 years ago was not even a thought today... Just thinking aloud...

Alex Ihnen wrote:
^ I think "urban" is likely an invention of eastern, or African origin.


You say this because "cities" were first seen in these parts of the world?

(Also, not trying to hijack the Fox Park thread. Feel free to move this elsewhere)

-Terence
Keep your eye out for a major landscaping project in Fox Park at Shenandoah and California. Also, there is a bocce tournament this Saturday to raise money for a dog park for the neighborhood. All are welcome.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/events/152117701632071/?fref=ts
Art Fair coming to Fox Park on October 12, 2013. I'm seeing lots of new activity and energy in FP...
https://www.facebook.com/#!/events/117815091762261/?fref=ts
Two massive projects were recently proposed for the Fox Park/McKinley Heights/Tower Grove East areas. The Fox Park Neighborhood Assoc held a vote on both projects last week. One is a rehab project led by RISE, the other a massive new home construction project by C.F. Vatterott. I'll be following these and posting more info as it comes in. The first one from RISE is a no brainer, the second will required transparency, honesty and diligence to hold Vatterott to building new homes in a historic neighborhood. Stay tuned.
All of that sounds of very good news for a area that i feel holds great value in the city specially not being far from downtown so i hope both the rehab & new construction can get approval all of Saint.Louis City needs as much rehab & new construction as possible but not just anything though we dealt with status quo for far too long..
I look forward to hearing more about the Vatterott project.
So how is the battle with the meatheads who trash everything in the park going?