St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

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First unread post3878 posts
That's yuge for not being a hub!
jshank83 wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:43 am
captainjackass wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:30 pm
What's the sky club?

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It is going to be non airline affliated. You pay a usage fee to use it everytime. They haven't announced who is running it but this company has one at some airports so it should give you an idea of what it will be. This one charges $40 a day. http://www.theclubairportlounges.com/
There are many lounge benefits through premium credit cards which will -- typically -- get you access to lounges like The Club for free. I have 2 (maybe 3?) credit cards with this benefit.

Greg
Chalupas54 wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:40 pm
jshank83 wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:59 pm
Stats through November are out.

November was up 11.7%

12,810,391 for Jan-Nov up 9.3% total

http://flystl.com/Portals/0/Air%20Traff ... an_Nov.pdf
Then we definitely broke 13 million with December.
If December has the same traffic as November, we'd be just over 4,000 passengers short of 14 million.

Greg
gregl wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:25 pm
If December has the same traffic as November, we'd be just over 4,000 passengers short of 14 million.
Now the interesting thing is that STL is in a bit of a donut hole when it comes to airport rankings.

As of 2015, we were the 32nd busiest airport at 6.239 million boardings -- 800,000 smaller than # 31 (Love Field) and only 2 airports within 500,000 boardings on the lower side (Houston Hobby & Austin).

So even hitting 7 million boardings this year won't move us in the rankings -- and we might actually drop based on the growth at HOU & AUS.

Greg
Just read in the Nashville Business Journal that they are rushing to get their airport renovations underway so they can help lure a London flight, but they don't expect completion for more than 7 years. From my interpretation, this puts Nashville several years behind us, as currently, their singular international gate can only accommodate 757-200s. I know we aren't seeing any (or shouldn't hope for) development on this in 2017, I am relieved however that we have a set International Arrivals area.
^ I assume we have the setup for larger planes because we previously had them?
I want to say the heavies always used the gates at the end of C, and that's probably why there was a second customs area there. For the life of me I don't recall how they worked, even though my grandparents and my father flew out of there all the blooming time, and I flew out of there myself once on one of TWA's L-1011s. (First flight I ever took, actually.) I remember the red carpet clearly and the moving walkways. Damn I've missed those. Here's to hoping they keep them this time. That concourse is really too long to connect both ends of it without them. And having two security checkpoints to get to SW flights would be fantastic, assuming they really do open it all the way through. The old C concourse will probably remain my favorite, as it has a good view of the field, and I'm more likely to use it anyway, as I don't have a lot of cause to fly SW, since I'm usually going to Asia these days when I get on a plane. Still, more is better and I sure know a lot of folks that like SW. Anyone else remember the old jetway on a bus style shuttle that used to transfer folks between the ends of C and D?
^I remember when I was younger that the end of C was correct. At least I remember seeing Paris/London on the boards down there. Besides that I don't know if there were other places they were also. Would they still need to go there (seeing I think people have said it is closed down there now) or could they fit somewhere else? I guess if it was British Airways that would be the spot since they are alligned with American anyways so it makes sense for them to be in the same concourse.
Isn't an issue that the C customs area is set up where even if you are ending trip here you have to go through security again? Why any likely BA setup scenario would be to use the current international arrivals to drop those off and then tow to C for departures, this setup isn't uncommon since its done at O'Hare for example. Mainly to not clog gates for arrivals. Other plus is so they could depart with AA and use the Admirals Club. That and considering a hypothetical timetable, you wouldn't want them to be staying at international arrival gates long due to if Southwest needs it due to evening rush or down the line any other flights appear. And note E33 and one of the American gates was designed in the past year or two to handle a 787.

Also remember with Nashville the reclear security even if ending there for international arrivals is one reason they are also fixing that. And the airport director here said basically that was the competition for securing a London flight. Read somewhere as well that the plane they were using to launch New Orleans this year was from a cancelled route in China but that they will be getting a few more of those in the next year to launch new routes for spring 2018.

And with the reopening of half of D, is there going to be more security lines and baggage area to handle increased capacity?
imperialmog wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:44 am
And with the reopening of half of D, is there going to be more security lines and baggage area to handle increased capacity?
I wondered if at some point you could have passengers who arrive in the old D concourse part of the Southwest gates (once they open) get directed to the main terminal for baggage. That would probably be way too confusing and a logistical nightmare though. Oakland is sort of like this and it is confusing if you aren't used to it. I ended up at the wrong baggage claim with a handful of other people from my flight.
jshank83 wrote:
imperialmog wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:44 am
And with the reopening of half of D, is there going to be more security lines and baggage area to handle increased capacity?
I wondered if at some point you could have passengers who arrive in the old D concourse part of the Southwest gates (once they open) get directed to the main terminal for baggage. That would probably be way too confusing and a logistical nightmare though. Oakland is sort of like this and it is confusing if you aren't used to it. I ended up at the wrong baggage claim with a handful of other people from my flight.
I feel like this is already needed. The baggage areas at T2 are insane.


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symphonicpoet wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:30 am
I want to say the heavies always used the gates at the end of C, and that's probably why there was a second customs area there. For the life of me I don't recall how they worked.
The customs area was below the terminal level.

Each of the customs accessible gates had two sets of doors. Coming off the plane, if the flight was domestic, you would continue straight through the door to the jetway and go through a door which led to the gate area in the terminal. If the flight was international, the second door would be closed and you would turn left or right to access the stairway to the customs area on the lower level. Once you cleared customs & immigration, you'd go through security and re-enter the terminal near gate C30.

Similar setups are used in terminals all over the world, including T5 in Chicago, which allows gates to be used for both international and domestic traffic.

Greg
I found this article out of the KC star. It is talking about MCI airport being on Trump's priority list for infastructure projects. Down lower it says Lambert is on it also for expansion. The word expansion seems weird as I would think it means upgrades since it doesn't really need "expanded".

http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics ... 91799.html
^ It is for the air cargo hub project. It's #50 on the list of 50 projects, btw. Tremendous lack of clarity on the overall program/list though so we'll see if this goes anywhere. Interesting also to note there are quite a few transit projects on that list... too bad not North-South Metrolink.
jshank83 wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:46 pm
I found this article out of the KC star. It is talking about MCI airport being on Trump's priority list for infastructure projects. Down lower it says Lambert is on it also for expansion. The word expansion seems weird as I would think it means upgrades since it doesn't really need "expanded".

http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics ... 91799.html
Lambert has its own project on the list. Pretty mush assumed it was dead and at the least PD points out the fact that this was/is actually a private project. Have to look at the priority list but have to say it is curious that both KC hub and Lambert's latest air cargo proposal would be on the priority list. Especially when you consider that Air traffic control still relies on WWII radar technology for all intents and purposes while GPS roll out is so slow considering its reliabilities & efficiencies that will come about.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... 91373.html
What ever happened with this project. It saw the article that said the airport approved a lease for a company for 20 years. Did they just never build? or what is the status?
imperialmog wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:44 am
Isn't an issue that the C customs area is set up where even if you are ending trip here you have to go through security again? Why any likely BA setup scenario would be to use the current international arrivals to drop those off and then tow to C for departures, this setup isn't uncommon since its done at O'Hare for example. Mainly to not clog gates for arrivals. Other plus is so they could depart with AA and use the Admirals Club. That and considering a hypothetical timetable, you wouldn't want them to be staying at international arrival gates long due to if Southwest needs it due to evening rush or down the line any other flights appear. And note E33 and one of the American gates was designed in the past year or two to handle a 787.
If they've got a gate that will take a heavy on D/E now you're probably right, they'll doubtless work to unify customs operations in once place, but I can't imagine it would be a huge deal to reopen the second periodically if the demand is there or a larger aircraft is ever needed. I'd wouldn't be surprised if most of the heavy equipment is probably still mothballed in place there, and so the biggest issues might be bringing the computers and network infrastructure up to spec, adding more modern light equipment like passport scanners and cameras, and moving personnel over there when necessary. You could probably get away with less updates to amenities in a basement customs area. When I was last in Shanghai a year back I had a flight that departed out of a basement gate area that felt like a holdover from the sixties: Wood dividers in the bathrooms, ancient concrete floors, there might even have been old ashtrays still. It was like stepping into another time. It was a largely disused bus boarding area to take you out to an onfield air stair, I suppose if a gate with a jetway couldn't be made available in time. (They kept moving us back and forth from one end of the concourse in what I'll call terminal two all the way to the other end. They did that . . . three times, I think. And it's a rather long concourse, seeing as there is only one and it's a fairly busy airport.) I actually rather enjoyed it, as it was a dive through the bowels of the airport and the air stair was just fun. Worn but functional will get you by in a pinch for something that's going to spend most of its time idle.
gregl wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:39 pm
The customs area was below the terminal level.

Each of the customs accessible gates had two sets of doors. Coming off the plane, if the flight was domestic, you would continue straight through the door to the jetway and go through a door which led to the gate area in the terminal. If the flight was international, the second door would be closed and you would turn left or right to access the stairway to the customs area on the lower level. Once you cleared customs & immigration, you'd go through security and re-enter the terminal near gate C30.

Similar setups are used in terminals all over the world, including T5 in Chicago, which allows gates to be used for both international and domestic traffic.

Greg

Yes, the two door thing does seem standard, now that you mention it. But Chicago's T5 is kind of a special case in my somewhat limited experience. I'm usually a little jet lagged, so try as I might, I haven't completely wrapped my head around how some places flow (though O'Dear is getting to be an exception), even if I've been through them quite often. But most in Asia, at least, don't lead you into bone-fide basements in the Chicago style. Might just be age, I suppose. The Asian system seems to prefer fully two level concourses. The gates are always on the lower level, but there's usually only a small waiting area downstairs, while most public airside areas are upstairs. On international arrivals the open door shuffles you into a lower level corridor that isn't generally accessible, but often seems to run about the full length of the concourse. At Shanghai Pu Dong you can sometimes see the general waiting areas through glass doors or partitions. I'd say this feels like the most common arrangement in East Asia, though most aren't so open and visible, and so the circulation is maybe less clear. Is San Francisco's international terminal laid out like that? It had the upper story public concourse and lower story gate much reminiscent of an Asian airport. But I only departed, so no customs there for me. Seoul Incheon I want to say you actually go down from immigration in the airport, so customs might have been on an upper level of the concourse there. (It's an odd duck. So odd it's a swan, perhaps. Really a heck of a pleasant airport.) It's been so long since I was last in Europe that I'll leave the short-haul side to someone more knowledgeable. ;-) (Though what with my brother in England these days I suppose I should fix that. Not that I'll likely drop the gilders for a direct flight.)

Anyway, I'm chasing something down a rabbit hole. Sorry. I really enjoy airports way too much to be completely healthy. Back to Lambert with us. And may we someday see enough traffic that they need both customs areas again, and maybe a third (connected) terminal. It's always good to dream, right? Hey Amazon, you need a hub now that you got planes? We have quiet landing strips for ya! (And if that China air cargo thing takes back off, weird thought that, then that could be mighty convenient. Not sure that would raise much demand for either passenger or the sacred direct to Europe flight though. Still . . . more landings is lower landing fees is cheaper operations is more landings is . . . a constructive feedback loop. Oh yeah!)
Just missed 14 mil.

Final number 13,959,126.

Top 10 airports in growing capacity at 9.1%

If we add in midamerica we can say its over 14 mil for the region though seeing some airports (like MCI, CLE, etc) have allegiant at their main airport


http://flystl.com/Newsroom/Blog/tabid/4 ... -2016.aspx
KMOV article on the D concourse renovations.

http://www.kmov.com/story/34356485/lamb ... -expansion
Thanks fo the article Greg. I would assume they wouldn't be spending all the money on it if they weren't pretty sure Southwest was interested, as people have speculated in here before.
^Greg's link is updated with a video now. At 6, channel 4 is going to show behind the scenes stuff.
I watched the segment. It's very exciting to see the growth at the airport. We've come a long way back in 10'years.
And the restoration of the moving walkways warms my childlike heart. I've missed those things. I get sad every time I'm on one somewhere else. It will be really good to have our own back. :) (Silly, I know. But true. Those meant "big time" to me. They still do. An airport without them, like O'Hare, is really just small potatoes. Wait . . . )
symphonicpoet wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:40 am
And the restoration of the moving walkways warms my childlike heart. I've missed those things. I get sad every time I'm on one somewhere else. It will be really good to have our own back. :) (Silly, I know. But true. Those meant "big time" to me. They still do. An airport without them, like O'Hare, is really just small potatoes. Wait . . . )
For some reason I thought there were some in councourse C. Are they gone or just in the part that isn't open anymore? I haven't been in that concourse in at least 15 years. I still remember when I was little wanting to go to cinnabon in that food area right after security.
jshank83 wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:43 am
symphonicpoet wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:40 am
And the restoration of the moving walkways warms my childlike heart. I've missed those things. I get sad every time I'm on one somewhere else. It will be really good to have our own back. :) (Silly, I know. But true. Those meant "big time" to me. They still do. An airport without them, like O'Hare, is really just small potatoes. Wait . . . )
For some reason I thought there were some in councourse C. Are they gone or just in the part that isn't open anymore? I haven't been in that concourse in at least 15 years. I still remember when I was little wanting to go to cinnabon in that food area right after security.
They are for sure in the tunnel between B & C.